India as a sporting nation

[Guest HariSampath]

Not really. I doubt any half-educated Indian shall disagree with the fact that we SUCK as a sporting nation. We have 12-15% of world's population and dont even pick 1.2-1.5% of medals at Olympics. And please dont give me this - population doesnt mean automatic medals - line of logic . Every half-ar country in the world is better than India in Sports. So how prudent it is to assume that a bad sporting nation shall excel in cricket? I say little. If anything it will only make false pretenses that we are very good and shall keep blowing up in our face time and again. xxx

I tell you Englishmen love their cricket better than Indians, and they support their counties far far better than we support our state sides. You just have to turn up at a county game and see the number of old women sitting and doing personal scoresheets, or you only have to read the Will of any reasonably well off Englishman who is a cricket fan.... the words " I bequeth 500 pounds to Hampshire county cricket club.... etc will certainly be there.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Lurker]

It's almost hilarious now to read the oft regurgitated spiel about India, her lack of sporting achievements, how Indians have pot bellies etc etc after a cricket loss.

Well its a cricket board so obviously most discussions shall have cricket in background somewhere. Plus when India shall win most of us are busy celebrating anyway. Like the wise man said - It doesnt matter how often you fall, what matters is how often you got up. In other words it is the act after you have fallen that counts...so maybe defeat leading to introspection is not a bad idea. Of course trolling is a definite no-no. xxx

[Guest HariSampath]

Why are answering your own post Hari . I have noticed this happenstance few times. Can you please correct it.

Maybe to elaborate , with context... but sorry,I shall try to reduce it:regular_smile:

[Lurker]

You just have to turn up at a county game and see the number of old women sitting and doing personal scoresheets, or you only have to read the Will of any reasonably well off Englishman who is a cricket fan.... the words " I bequeth 500 pounds to Hampshire county cricket club.... etc will certainly be there.

No disagreement on that. Everytime I visit UK I absolutely loveeeeee to walk to a Book Store and pick cricket books. I am like a kid in a candy store. On the other hand when I do the same in Mumbai, Delhi I find very few books about cricket in India. No wonder the other day me and you were rattling anecdotes about Aussie/English cricketer but precious little about Indian players. As I was once told by a book-seller - Koi likhta nahin, koi parhta nahin(noone writes, noone reads). That all said England still suck as a team heheheh... xxx

[Guest HariSampath]

Except that your demands are unreasonable and so are your ways of expressing those demands. Because there are no guarantees in any sport .... it wouldnt be called a sport if there were any ... You create more problems than solve any with your unrealistic expectations demands. look at the Barmy army how they steadfastly stand behind a English team that is known to lose more than 70% of their matches ... See how the guys have such a wonderfull spirit and support their team no matter where they travel or how the team performs. that is what the concept of a true sporting fan is all about.

Thank you for elaborating and proving my point. The Barmy army will always support England not some personality blindly. And to elaborate even more... Australian crowds routinely boo even their greats if they don't perform and stick on to the team..... you may not have seen the famous placard on the SCG Hill that said " Chappell go to Ducksville"... when Greg Chappell continued to stay in the side despite a series of zeroes, but the Sydney crowd was always behind Australia And of course when Australia once collapsed against a very ordinary England attack in an Ashes game a few yeears back, we all saw the big poster " Bring back Bradman"... that means they love Australian cricket and are expressing the dissent against the current lot.

[coffee_rules]

I tell you Englishmen love their cricket better than Indians, and they support their counties far far better than we support our state sides. You just have to turn up at a county game and see the number of old women sitting and doing personal scoresheets, or you only have to read the Will of any reasonably well off Englishman who is a cricket fan.... the words " I bequeth 500 pounds to Hampshire county cricket club.... etc will certainly be there.

Still, they are all supporting their team. One one bad loss, they won't go about in a frenzy abusing the players, team (oh..boo hoo we are born losers....etc.). They will not put down their team in favor of the opposition. The players get money from BCCI, corporations. It is not taxpayers money (except the state govt awards given to them after T20 cup), esp the BCCI and endorsement money

[yoda]

Still' date=' they are all supporting their team. One one bad loss, they won't go about in a frenzy abusing the players, team (oh..boo hoo we are born losers....etc.). They will not put down their team in favor of the opposition. The players get money from BCCI, corporations. It is not taxpayers money (except the state govt awards given to them after T20 cup), esp the BCCI and endorsement money[/quote'] Guess, you haven't been to TMS message boards. Yes, some, not all, do come down heavily on their team after losses.

[coffee_rules]

Guess' date=' you haven't been to TMS message boards. Yes, some, not all, do come down heavily on their team after losses.[/quote'] Yes, I consider all such people - cohorts from padosi mulk.

[kumble_rocks]

Not really. I doubt any half-educated Indian shall disagree with the fact that we SUCK as a sporting nation. We have 12-15% of world's population and dont even pick 1.2-1.5% of medals at Olympics. And please dont give me this - population doesnt mean automatic medals - line of logic . Every half-ar country in the world is better than India in Sports. So how prudent it is to assume that a bad sporting nation shall excel in cricket? I say little. If anything it will only make false pretenses that we are very good and shall keep blowing up in our face time and again. xxx

Spot on ! With a heavy heart , I have to say this , India has a very poor sports culture . Reel life is encouraged more than real life. Go to any newspaper stand , and you will find tonnes and tonnes of film magazines and just one sports magazine namely sportstar. Heck , during the 70's and 80' we had three sports magazines viz sportsweek , sportsworld and sportstar. Agreed we lack training , poor infrastructure , poor facilities etc . And add to the fact that we are not physically gifted like some of the African . Case in point , West Indies of the eighties which was much poorer then India by any social index and could boast a population less than half that of mumbai , but yet could produce genuine fast bowlers a feet unmatched by India . Also, it is baffling to see small countries like Thailand , Malayasia etc winning more Olympic medals than us. And it is not that citizens of these countries have great physical advantage over us unlike the Africans.

[coffee_rules]

Spot on ! With a heavy heart ' date=' I have to say this , India has a very poor sports culture . Reel life is encouraged more than real life. Go to any newspaper stand , and you will find tonnes and tonnes of film magazines and just one sports magazine namely sportstar. Heck , during the 70's and 80' we had three sports magazines viz sportsweek , sportsworld and sportstar. Agreed we lack training , poor infrastructure , poor facilities etc . And add to the fact that we are not physically gifted like some of the African . Case in point , West Indies of the eighties which was much poorer then India by any social index and could boast a population less than half that of mumbai , but yet could produce genuine fast bowlers a feet unmatched by India . Also, it is baffling to see small countries like Thailand , Malayasia etc winning more Olympic medals than us. And it is not that citizens of these countries have great physical advantage over us unlike the Africans.[/quote'] You don't think the economic state of the general populace is responsible for this state of affairs. A lot of people struggle to put food on the table. The middle class is worried about ensuring their economic state 20 years from now, so that their sons can get better education or daughters can get married with tons of cash. Where is the time to think of khelna-koodna?

[Aditi]

Still' date=' they are all supporting their team. One one bad loss, they won't go about in a frenzy abusing the players, team (oh..boo hoo we are born losers....etc.). They will not put down their team in favor of the opposition. The players get money from BCCI, corporations. It is not taxpayers money (except the state govt awards given to them after T20 cup), esp the BCCI and endorsement money[/quote'] Exactly...win some, lose some.

[Gambit]

Guys, moved all the posts about India and sporting achievements here from that thread.

[Lurker]

You don't think the economic state of the general populace is responsible for this state of affairs. A lot of people struggle to put food on the table. The middle class is worried about ensuring their economic state 20 years from now' date=' so that their sons can get better education or daughters can get married with tons of cash. Where is the time to think of khelna-koodna?[/quote'] CA, I had adressed this in my discussion with Sriram. I shall cut and paste it. Can you give your opinion on this? Indians are always complaining about this, that and the other. Everything from Politicians to lack of Infrastructure does them in. And if we had good infrastructure(and coaches) we would be world's best yada yada. 100% BS. I am not sure how long you have lived in USA but I am sure you have heard a few things about NRI's in USA: 1) We(American-Indian) are the richest minority in USA. 2) Our kids are amongst the very tops. 3) We dominate NASAs, MITs, Microsoft and all the big technology groups. Now let me ask you - How many Indian kids you know are any good at any Sports in USA? Other than possibly Mohini Bhardwaj which other name comes to mind? Now compare that with how every year Annual Spelling Bee has a good 2-3 Indian kids in top 10, even top 5. Compare that with how we have already spent two Indians into space - Sunita Williams, Kalpana Chawla. Do you see a trend here? That even though we leave India we carry our Indianness with us, and we suck even in country with good Infrastructure. xxx

[kumble_rocks]

You don't think the economic state of the general populace is responsible for this state of affairs. A lot of people struggle to put food on the table. The middle class is worried about ensuring their economic state 20 years from now' date=' so that their sons can get better education or daughters can get married with tons of cash. Where is the time to think of khelna-koodna?[/quote'] I am not disputing your point , but the concept of sports culture does not mean just participation in the nascent stage. Heck , we fail in the first test , which is to generate interest in sports other than cricket. India churns the maximum number of movies in the whole wide word. I wouldn't be exaggerating if I saw just Bollywood generates more movies than rest of the world. Now , let me ask a question , how many African countries are richer than us or have better training facilities than us. Yet , they win more medals or do better than us in most sports . So , surely we cannot ignore the physical aspect which we lack in comparison to some of the citizens of these nations. It's not like the middle class is doing smashingly well in these countries or they are richer than us. On the contrary we are better off than them from economic view point . How do you explain a poor nation like West Indies having a population of less than Mumbai , able to generate world class express fast bowlers in the eighties. BTW, Fishing and tourism being their main industry. But I will concede this, small countries like Thailand , Malaysia also do better than us and it is not that they are physically well endowed in comparison to us. Here, your point about the problems of our middle class and their economic worries is well accepted.

[coffee_rules]

In countries like Cameroon, Nigeria, Kenya - the poor see an economic reward in excellence in sports and that's what they see as their path towards freedom from poverty. The Kenyan marathon runners are usually poor and are encouraged by the Govt authorities. Even in India, some of the athletes are poor and are encouraged by the local authorities. Remember an archer () in the 80s, was actually from one of the STs / Adivasis. But in India, the middle class and poor invest in education mainly to get them out of poverty or to secure their future. That is part of their culture. I think the 'can't produce olympic medal from 1 billion' brigade don't see that reason at all.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[gs]

ts more of a social malaise. In the laundry list of things to do, sports comes at the very last - understandably so. After all how many them become tendulkars or vishwanathan anands? There is no safety net like the way it is in western countries like govt scholarships/stipends for sportsmen nor a culture of going to college when you are 40+ and getting a degree in case a sports career doesnt work out. No concept of part time jobs, minimum wage etc. to help you in the meantime either. So if you pursue sports and dont make it big, you are basically screwed. India is a hard place to survive - very few people get second chances when it comes to education or building a career. After all how many middle aged people do you see in colleges (except maybe for post grad like MBA, Phd etc)? Arent people who dont do well in 10th or 12th labeled as "failures"? So people tend to view sports as just a pastime and not as a career option. "Padhai ke waqt padhai" is the mantra for most youngsters (read their parents!). As a result a country with 1/6th of the world's population barely gets a medal in Olympics!

[kumble_rocks]

In countries like Cameroon, Nigeria, Kenya - the poor see an economic reward in excellence in sports and that what they see as their path towards freedom from poverty. The Kenyan marathon runners are usually poor and are encouraged by the Govet authorities. Even in India, some of the athletes are poor and are encouraged by the local authorities. Remember an archer () in the 80s, was actually from one of the STs / Adivasis. But in India, the middle class and poor invest on education mainly to get them out of poverty or to secure their future. That is part of their culture. I think the 'can't produce olympic medal from 1 billion' brigade don't see that reason at all.

With all due respect , are you suggesting that the West Indies fast bowlers were encouraged by their Government/Sports Authorities. On the Contrary , they served as hindrance according to the late great Marshall. How do explain a poor country like Windies with miniscule population produce so many fast bowlers in the eighties , a feet unmatched by a nation of billion ? Ignore the racial aspect at your own peril, I say.

[kumble_rocks]

ts more of a social malaise. In the laundry list of things to do' date=' sports comes at the very last - understandably so. After all how many them become tendulkars or vishwanathan anands? There is no safety net like the way it is in western countries like govt scholarships/stipends for sportsmen nor a culture of going to college when you are 40+ and getting a degree in case a sports career doesnt work out. No concept of part time jobs, minimum wage etc. to help you in the meantime either. So if you pursue sports and dont make it big, you are basically screwed. India is a hard place to survive - very few people get second chances when it comes to education or building a career. After all how many middle aged people do you see in colleges (except maybe for post grad like MBA, Phd etc)? Arent people who dont do well in 10th or 12th labeled as "failures"? So people tend to view sports as just a pastime and not as a career option. "Padhai ke waqt padhai" is the mantra for most youngsters (read their parents!). As a result a country with 1/6th of the world's population barely gets a medal in Olympics![/quote'] I partly agree with your post. Hate to indulge in racial pigeon holing , but don't you think we should accept the fact that their is a possibility that race may be a factor also when compared with Africans , Germans , Russians etc. Our skills are more in the academic line wherein we excel compared to lot of other nations.