Choker from the start?

[Anakin]

Conversely how many of Tendulkar's 41 hundreds were made while chasing scores of above 280 ? In his 18 year career how many times have India beaten Australia in Australia in games that he played? and what did Tendulkar do ?

Conversely how many matches were won by SRT And how many ODIs were won against OZs without SRT's contribution, anywhere, let alone in Australia?

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

May I ask how you managed to sneak Yuvraj into the top performers of world cup 2003. He scored 2 fifties in the entire tournament, of which only 1 was actually useful (against Pakistan), the other was against Kenya during the regular rounds (after we had well and truly qualified). But I dont like branding people chokers purely on the basis of the odd statistic. Yuvraj has yet to win us a high-pressure match in a finals type tournament while the big 3 have, but that doesnt mean Yuvraj is a choker. He is still young and most batsman dont actually reach their peak until their late 20's.

Dude, check your stats first before you talk. The 50+ yuvraj scored against kenya was in the super sixes of the worldcup 2003 and it was teh first super six match for india so i dunno how they were well and truly qualified..lollll haha and it was a vital one since india lost early wickets and had a scare. Yuvrajs score of 42 off 38 balls against england was imp too to add up to the total to put the pressure on eng batting which fell under a furious spell from nehra cuz of the pressure of the runs mounted and his 50 against pakistan was equally vital cuz if India had lost another wicket at that time, we would have been trouble. and yet to win a match final type?..wat was natwest final involving 3 teams for example? but yea he certainly gotta improve but the big 3 are not much betetr either.

[Mr. Wicket]

Wrong. The big 3 are much better. That's why we refer to them as the Big 3, and have a different set of expectations from Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar. If Yuseless was really as good as them, we'd be calling em the big 4. But he isn't, so we aren't.

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

So stop making a thread or encouraging whoever that did comparing big 3 in finals vs yuvraj...hahaha wht a hypocrite.

[Guest HariSampath]

Wrong. The big 3 are much better. That's why we refer to them as the Big 3, and have a different set of expectations from Ganguly, Dravid and Tendulkar. If Yuseless was really as good as them, we'd be calling em the big 4. But he isn't, so we aren't.

So define what different set of expectations in terms of a 318 run chase ?

[Gambit]

Dude' date=' check your stats first before you talk. The 50+ yuvraj scored against kenya was in the super sixes of the worldcup 2003 and it was teh first super six match for india so i dunno how they were well and truly qualified..lollll haha and it was a vital one since india lost early wickets and had a scare. Yuvrajs score of 42 off 38 balls against england was imp too to add up to the total to put the pressure on eng batting which fell under a furious spell from nehra cuz of the pressure of the runs mounted and his 50 against pakistan was equally vital cuz if India had lost another wicket at that time, we would have been trouble.[/quote'] Bottomline is that apart from the Pak knock, Yuvi has done jack against decent opposition in all this world knocks thus far. Really laughable how you tried to squeeze in Yuvi as one of the reasons for our 2003 world cup success. hahahahah

[Gambit]

In his 18 year career how many times have India beaten Australia in Australia in games that he played? and what did Tendulkar do ?

Hari, a challenge for you. Show me any 5 instances of India beating Australia in an ODI without any contribution from Tendulkar whatsoever, since his debut.

[Lurker]

There have been numerous claims of Tendulkar, Ganguly, and Dravid choking in finals and must win matches, a lot of them justifiable because none of them have a great recent record in must win matches and finals. Yuvraj has been branded as the fearless batsman to take us out of our failure to step up in knockout/must win games. Here is Yuvraj's record in ODI finals :

[FONT=MONOSPACE,COURIER NEW,COURIER]                 Mat    I  NO  Runs HS1  HS2  HS3     Ave 100  50   0[/FONT]
 
[FONT=MONOSPACE,COURIER NEW,COURIER]unfiltered           189  171  25  5286 139  121  120   36.20   8  30   9[/FONT]
[FONT=MONOSPACE,COURIER NEW,COURIER]filtered              15   13   1   221  69   42   24   18.41   0   1   1[/FONT]

Ridiculous thread...and another reason why Statistics create more confusion than proving anything solid. Yuvraj Singh barely started playing cricket in 2000/01. Now since we are comparing Yuvraj to SRT here's a good comparison in finals post 2000/01(the time when they played alongside) Yuvraj 221@18.41 Sachin 270@27 Whoopee dooo! India's greatest LOI batsman scores at 27 runs in Finals...Time to distribute sweets I suppose! What is further interesting is that Sachin's finals come in the era 2000-2004, a period when he was arguably at the very top while Yuvraj was barely starting. At his pomp Sachin scored at 27 in finals...no wonder we got our tails whipped everywhere. Sachin-bhakts start bringing the data of 1996 finals now...:hysterical::hysterical:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Yuvraj4Captaincy]

Bottomline is that apart from the Pak knock' date=' Yuvi has done jack against decent opposition in all this world knocks thus far. Really laughable how you tried to squeeze in Yuvi as one of the reasons for our 2003 world cup success. hahahahah[/quote'] Oh , how dare I?..God was the only reason we reached the final of the worldcup. Heck, why did we even send the other players. We should just hve sent tendulkar...ridiculus...hahaha wht a stupid post. and at the same time when yuvraj win a series , they are the first to highlight tendys infrequent contribituions at the top.....keep going god worshippers!!!!!!!!

[Mr. Wicket]

Hari' date=' a challenge for you. Show me any 5 instances of India beating Australia in an ODI without any contribution from Tendulkar whatsoever, since his debut.[/quote'] Bring on the moral victories! :D

[Gambit]

Oh ' date=' how dare I?..God was the only reason we reached the final of the worldcup. Heck, why did we even send the other players. We should just hve sent tendulkar...ridiculus...hahaha[/quote'] Because I showed your post to be devoid of any logic and fact whatsoever, you come up with the rubbish above. Tendulkar averaged 50 against all non minnow opposition in the 2003 world cup. Find me a batsmen who even came close.

wht a stupid post. and at the same time when yuvraj win a series , they are the first to highlight tendys infrequent contribituions at the top.....keep going god worshippers!!!!!!!!

Dude, WTF do you keep going on about worshippers this and worshippers that? When faced with facts and logic, you bring out this same old inane tripe. In conclusion, Yuvi has played just 1 knock of note against decent opposition in WC matches thus far. If you are unable to see that and if you think Yuvi played a hand in getting us to the world cup final in 2003, it is you who is the blind worshipper. :hysterical:

[Mr. Wicket]

Dude, WTF do you keep going on about worshippers this and worshippers that? When faced with facts and logic, you bring out this same old inane tripe. In conclusion, Yuvi has played just 1 knock of note against decent opposition in WC matches thus far. If you are unable to see that and if you think Yuvi played a hand in getting us to the world cup final in 2003, it is you who is the blind worshipper. :hysterical:

Well, this is a guy whose handle is Yuvraj4Captaincy (in itself an outrageously daft thought), and whose every other post includes either defending Yuvraj from us mean mean bastions of sense, or promoting him mindlessly. Worshipper? That certainly comes to mind. As do the words pot, kettle and black.

[Gambit]

Ridiculous thread...and another reason why Statistics create more confusion than proving anything solid. Yuvraj Singh barely started playing cricket in 2000/01. Now since we are comparing Yuvraj to SRT here's a good comparison in finals post 2000/01(the time when they played alongside) Yuvraj 221@18.41 Sachin 270@27 Whoopee dooo! India's greatest LOI batsman scores at 27 runs in Finals...Time to distribute sweets I suppose! What is further interesting is that Sachin's finals come in the era 2000-2004, a period when he was arguably at the very top while Yuvraj was barely starting. At his pomp Sachin scored at 27 in finals...no wonder we got our tails whipped everywhere. Sachin-bhakts start bringing the data of 1996 finals now...:hysterical::hysterical:

Tendulkar has top scored in the following finals bringing India glory: 66 v WI - Calcutta, Wills World Series Final (3rd team was NZ) 67 v RSA - Mumbai, Titan Cup(3rd team was Australia) 95 v Pak - Dhaka, 1st final Independence Cup (3rd team was BD) 134 v Aus - Sharjah, Coca Cola Cup(3rd team was NZ) 128 v SL - Colombo, Singer Final(3rd team was NZ) And I'm not even including 523@87 in the 1996 world cup and 673@61 in the 2003 world cup! Lurker, please find me multiple instances of Yuvraj winning grand finals. Also, please find me any Indian batsmen with more than 5 match winning+top scoring knocks in ODI finals against non minnows. Let's see how many such batsmen exist. Also feel free to find any non Aussie batsmen as well.

[Gambit]

Well, this is a guy whose handle is Yuvraj4Captaincy (in itself an outrageously daft thought), and whose every other post includes either defending Yuvraj from us mean mean bastions of sense, or promoting him mindlessly. Worshipper? That certainly comes to mind. As do the words pot, kettle and black.

I don't even know why I bother. I full expect him to come up with more tripe followed by "hahahaha blah blah worshipper hahaha" :bird:

[Lurker]

Tendulkar has top scored in the following finals bringing India glory: 66 v WI - Calcutta, Wills World Series Final (3rd team was NZ) 67 v RSA - Mumbai, Titan Cup(3rd team was Australia) 95 v Pak - Dhaka, 1st final Independence Cup (3rd team was BD) 134 v Aus - Sharjah, Coca Cola Cup(3rd team was NZ) 128 v SL - Colombo, Singer Final(3rd team was NZ) And I'm not even including 523@87 in the 1996 world cup and 673@61 in the 2003 world cup! Lurker, please find me multiple instances of Yuvraj winning grand finals. Also, please find me any Indian batsmen with more than 5 match winning+top scoring knocks in ODI finals against non minnows. Let's see how many such batsmen exist. Also feel free to find any non Aussie batsmen as well.

For starters SRT fans should chill Gambo. You have to realize that you are hardly doing anything good by throwing stones at one of your fellow players(Yuvraj). I am not sure if you have read my posts on the SRT before but I have clearly mentioned 7654 times that it is not possible to replace Sachin. He is easily the best LOI batsman India produced, and one of the top 2 (alongside Viv) in the world. How in the world do you replace that kind of player? Has Viv been replaced? Was Kapil replaced? Was Imran replaced? No. But they all had to go at some time, and yes Sachin's time has come and he should go. Coming to the finals issue I have given you the numbers, circa 2000/2001 Sachin has scored at 27, Yuvraj at 18. I frankly do not see much difference between the two averages(they are both poor in my book) though for semantics you can perhaps say 27 > 18. There is little point comparing Yuvraj's final's performance in 2000/2001 against Sachin in 1996 when Sachin in 2000/2001 himself has failed to replicate what he did before. As for your contention that India has not won(against Australia) without Sachin making meaningful contribution I can rattle a couple of innings right off the bat where India did so, specially the time when Sachin and Jaedja used to open. Towards late 90s, once in India other time in Sharjah, Jadeja played a couple of blinders against them and India won. If you would want I can dig those scores up for you. xxx

[siddhu]

For starters SRT fans should chill Gambo. You have to realize that you are hardly doing anything good by throwing stones at one of your fellow players(Yuvraj). I am not sure if you have read my posts on the SRT before but I have clearly mentioned 7654 times that it is not possible to replace Sachin. He is easily the best LOI batsman India produced, and one of the top 2 (alongside Viv) in the world. How in the world do you replace that kind of player? Has Viv been replaced? Was Kapil replaced? Was Imran replaced? No. But they all had to go at some time, and yes Sachin's time has come and he should go. Coming to the finals issue I have given you the numbers, circa 2000/2001 Sachin has scored at 27, Yuvraj at 18. I frankly do not see much difference between the two averages(they are both poor in my book) though for semantics you can perhaps say 27 > 18. There is little point comparing Yuvraj's final's performance in 2000/2001 against Sachin in 1996 when Sachin in 2000/2001 himself has failed to replicate what he did before. As for your contention that India has not won(against Australia) without Sachin making meaningful contribution I can rattle a couple of innings right off the bat where India did so, specially the time when Sachin and Jaedja used to open. Towards late 90s, once in India other time in Sharjah, Jadeja played a couple of blinders against them and India won. If you would want I can dig those scores up for you. xxx

Sachin's time has come to go??? On what basis?? he is scoring more runs than any of the young brigade and his time has come ?? For the last 2 series he has been the top performer and his time has come??? Does not make any sense... but this is what they say.. vinaash kaale viprit buddhi!!!

[Gambit]

For starters SRT fans should chill Gambo. You have to realize that you are hardly doing anything good by throwing stones at one of your fellow players(Yuvraj).

Lurker, if I were a big Srinath fan and if I were to make fun of Kapil and deride his performances, would you not retaliate by demeaning Srinath? What is happening here is that people are praising Yuvraj at the expense of Sachin and hence Yuvi's inadequacies are being highlighted. If I were to create a thread on Yuvi's failing, I bet you 90% of people will retaliate by bringing down SRT. Where is the justice?

I am not sure if you have read my posts on the SRT before but I have clearly mentioned 7654 times that it is not possible to replace Sachin. He is easily the best LOI batsman India produced, and one of the top 2 (alongside Viv) in the world. How in the world do you replace that kind of player? Has Viv been replaced? Was Kapil replaced? Was Imran replaced? No. But they all had to go at some time, and yes Sachin's time has come and he should go.

I am not even talking about replacement. As long as he keeps making runs AND feels like playing, he should continue. Your view is that since he is a senior member he should retire, FULL STOP. But the fact of the matter is that he has been in fine form in ODIs last year and this year and as long as he does well, he should be picked.

Coming to the finals issue I have given you the numbers, circa 2000/2001 Sachin has scored at 27, Yuvraj at 18. I frankly do not see much difference between the two averages(they are both poor in my book) though for semantics you can perhaps say 27 > 18. There is little point comparing Yuvraj's final's performance in 2000/2001 against Sachin in 1996 when Sachin in 2000/2001 himself has failed to replicate what he did before.

People bring down SRT pointing his lack of performances in recent finals. Fair enough. But what were the other batsmen doing? When their non performances are discussed, SRT is abused again. Why? Also, why is the fact that SRT has won us more finals than any other batsmen ever not highlighted as often as it should be? I just showed you 5 top scoring match winning performances in ODI tournament finals. Can anyone find me an Indian batsmen with more top scoring match winning performances in ODI tourney finals? Or even 3-4 international batsmen who've got more than 5? Anyone? Heck, RD doesn't even have a 50 in a final won by India!

As for your contention that India has not won(against Australia) without Sachin making meaningful contribution I can rattle a couple of innings right off the bat where India did so, specially the time when Sachin and Jaedja used to open. Towards late 90s, once in India other time in Sharjah, Jadeja played a couple of blinders against them and India won. If you would want I can dig those scores up for you.

Please do show me five ODI matches that India have won against Australia since Sachin's debut without any meaningful contribution from SRT whatsoever. Thanks.

[Lurker]

Sachin's time has come to go??? On what basis?? he is scoring more runs than any of the young brigade and his time has come ?? For the last 2 series he has been the top performer and his time has come??? Does not make any sense...

Hmm okay lets use your logic for a second then. His last 4 Test series. 1) Against England 2007. SRT 6th in average 2) Against SA 2006/07 SRT 4th in average 3) Against England 2006 SRT 9th in batting averages 4) Against Pakistan 2006 SRT 10th in batting averages. Test numbers all of them. Do you agree that we should drop him from Test team(since your argument was number based)? xxx

[siddhu]

Hmm okay lets use your logic for a second then. His last 4 Test series. 1) Against England 2007. SRT 6th in average 2) Against SA 2006/07 SRT 4th in average 3) Against England 2006 SRT 9th in batting averages 4) Against Pakistan 2006 SRT 10th in batting averages. Test numbers all of them. Do you agree that we should drop him from Test team(since your argument was number based)? xxx

how come tests suddenly feature in a discussion of ODIs? Make up your mind, from which team do u want him to be removed, tests or ODIs? And if u want him to be "replaced" in tests, show me one batsman of his calibre who can replace him. yes his recent performances have been poor in tests but that doesn't mean he should be shown the door suddenly. Sehwag and Ganguly were given innumberable chances...