Guest Hiten. Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I'd say our crowd were mocking his physical looks and not because of his black race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Actually, that's an excellent point by Chandan. How many people in India are actually aware of racism on a day to day basis. In my experience I have witnessed all sorts of discrimination in India but never came across racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoda Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Actually' date=' that's an excellent point by Chandan. How many people in India are actually aware of racism on a day to day basis. In my experience I have witnessed all sorts of discrimination in India but never came across racism.[/quote'] How many of those instances were the folks you witnessed dealing with someone from a different race? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 How many of those instances were the folks you witnessed dealing with someone from a different race? Sufficient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 PS : Unless you count instances of white foreigners being harassed on the streets for their perceived money as racism, which I don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandtest Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Looking at Indian crowd and particularly Mumbaikars from "Western" myopic concept of racism is STUPIDITY. Indians do use a lot of words which in "Westren" media or dhimmi Indian media will lead to charges of "racism",which in fact are anything but Racism. At our home, during college days we have came many instances, where people will call us like "Bandar kahin kaa" (you are behaving like monkey)......Had we taken it as "racism"?? Also, one more word which has been highly "mis-interpreted" is "Maleech" (considered as religious recism practiced by "evil" Hindus). This is funny as well. My father use to call us "Maleech" when we refuse to take bath or brush our teeth in childhood...so if Maleech is "racism", then Father is "racist" to his own son??...huh. Maleech is used for anyone who is "personally" not cleaning (sauch etc.), sanitizing his body properly. It could be any person irrespective of religion. Talking of Racism, one has to be very careful when it comes to Indians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Looking at Indian crowd and particularly Mumbaikars from "Western" myopic concept of racism is STUPIDITY. Indians do use a lot of words which in "Westren" media or dhimmi Indian media will lead to charges of "racism", in fact they are NOT. At our home, during college days we have came many instances, where people will call us like "Bandar kahin kaa" (you are behaving like monkey)......Had we taken it as "racism"?? Also, one more word which has been highly "mis-interpreted" is "Maleech" (considered as religious recism practiced by "evil" Hindus). This is funny as well. My father use to call us "Maleech" when we refuse to take bath or brush our teeth in childhood...so if Maleech is "racism", then Father is "racist" to his own son??...huh. Maleech is used for anyone who is "personally" not cleaning (sauch etc.), sanitizing his body properly. It could be any person irrespective of religion. Talking of Racism, one has to be very careful when it comes to Indians. A caucasian calling a black person nigger is racism.....A black person calling another black person nigger is not. There is a certain thing called context, so the same words spoken in different context can be both racist and non-racists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandtest Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 A caucasian calling a black person nigger is racism.....A black person calling another black person nigger is not. There is a certain thing called context' date= so the same words spoken in different context can be both racist and non-racists. I have never been to west, could you please explain bit more what "nigger" is? it will help in understanding "western" context of racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bongosamaj Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Talking of Racism, one has to be very careful when it comes to Indians. Yeah, i agree in historic sense but India definitely has a racial element in its culture in the present. But historically speaking, racism is not a concept found in India- we used to feel superior over caste/untouchability etc. kind of nonsense, not race. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Zap, You didn't tell me why being called monkey only is racism. Why not kangaroo or Kiwi or tiger? I really don't know and perhaps this education here might help me in future! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Zap, You didn't tell me why being called monkey only is racism. Why not kangaroo or Kiwi or tiger? I really don't know and perhaps this education here might help me in future! Calling someone monkey always has a negative connotation irrespective of race,wouldn't you agree? I mean,would people really be upset if someone called you a tiger or a kangaroo (unless you are a girl who happens to jump from bed to bed). Anyway, i dont know how it originated (maybe dark skin of monkeys or big lips etc) but monkey noises are frequent in football games. Try this ,http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_football From that you can see that Black players were targeted by whites. So yeah, i don't think the mumbai crowd were all that ignorant or naive about the racial connotations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zap_Brannigan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I have never been to west' date=' could you please explain bit more what "nigger" is? it will help in understanding "western" context of racism.[/quote'] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nigger Anyway, you utter that word in the US, you are a dead man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 From that you can see that Black players were targeted by whites. So yeah, i don't think the mumbai crowd were all that ignorant or naive about the racial connotations. As someone who is reasonably well educated and traveled, and someone who isn't really much of a football follower except during the WC and the EC, I was unaware of all this monkey noise concept in football till a couple of years back. How can you be so confident that the Bombay crowd knew about all this when like most Indians they hardly follow football and it's related history? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prudent Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Peter Lalor - 'The Australian' reporter is trying his level best to sensationalise the issue http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/sport/cricket/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 I think all hecklers deserve to be behaind bars... People who think they can say anything and do anything because they form the mob.......are just cowards.Each on of them would never heckle a player if he/she were alone....numbers get the worst out of these monkeys...... As for the monkey comment ...I can't get inside symond's head but in most of India ...being called a monkey is not really offensive.I often call my students monkey...as in...all monkeys, get off the tables! If it's his African origin that makes the comments offensive....I am sure most of India does not even know that he is "black". To most he appears lke a white man with a weird hairstyle....... And is it less racist to call Ponting a monkey? What about sreesanth.....? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Calling someone monkey always has a negative connotation irrespective of race' date='wouldn't you agree? I mean,would people really be upset if someone called you a tiger or a kangaroo (unless you are a girl who happens to jump from bed to bed). Anyway, i dont know how it originated (maybe dark skin of monkeys or big lips etc) but monkey noises are frequent in football games. Try this ,[url']http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_football From that you can see that Black players were targeted by whites. So yeah, i don't think the mumbai crowd were all that ignorant or naive about the racial connotations. Zap, In India, one of our deities is monkey. So how does it have negative connotations, in India at least? I have no idea about west! One of the Australian paper suggested that since “monkey†is a pejorative in Europe and Australia, it must be in India too. Why?? If they cannot understand our culture and religious values why do they expect that we would understand theirs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beetle Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 >>>>If they cannot understand our culture and religious values why do they expect that we would understand theirs? agree.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandtest Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 If they cannot understand our culture and religious values why do they expect that we would understand theirs? Exactly! And this statement should have been issued by BCCI. There is already a lot of damage done through Australian media psy-ops and our own apologetic dhimmi media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suma25 Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 Zap, In India, one of our deities is monkey. So how does it have negative connotations, in India at least? I have no idea about west! One of the Australian paper suggested that since “monkey” is a pejorative in Europe and Australia, it must be in India too. Why?? If they cannot understand our culture and religious values why do they expect that we would understand theirs? the australian media maybe sensionalising the issue and they are wrong on their part in whatever yoou said but after the first incident highlighted in the media as being racist since symond being a black australian wud you still agree the crowd chanting monkey chants in nagpur and mumbai to feign ignorance abt it(being racist) and carry on just to rile him up... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chandan Posted October 18, 2007 Share Posted October 18, 2007 the australian media maybe sensionalising the issue and they are wrong on their part in whatever yoou said but after the first incident highlighted in the media as being racist since symond being a black australian wud you still agree the crowd chanting monkey chants in nagpur and mumbai to feign ignorance abt it(being racist) and carry on just to rile him up... I don't think many understood that, even when it was highlighted after Baroda ODI. I myself have been trying my best to understand how a monkey chant equates to racism. And till today I haven't understood. Maybe, monkeys were/are being compared to blacks in west, to deride them? I simply have no idea. And I'm sure that the crowd didn't have either, They were doing this just to rile up the Aussies. I saw a placard in yesterday's match: "Aussies are our guests. Our guests are like God. And one of our gods is monkey" Do you think they were being racist there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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