Australian Open 2014 - Stan Wawrinka beats Rafa in the final

[Muloghonto]

@Muloghonto I went through your post the bottom line is that whatever you said is your personal opinion. Whenever I made a claim I backed that up with stats. You failed to do so. I don't have time to argue with you over your personal opinion. I simply don't care about your opinion.

No, the bottomline is your opinion is also an opinion. Read the article you posted. Professionals like Rusedski and Taylor Dent have said that the courts have been getting slower and slower at wimbledon since 2001. Not just that it suddenly got slow and stayed the same slow. That proves my point that Nadal only won wimbledon because it was slower than the wimbledon of the past.

And no Federer's average first serve speed was never over 120 mph. At best it was about 116-117. Also FYI when you make a claim and someone disagrees it is customary that you provide a source. "Google is your friend" is not enough. Come back at me when you have the proof to back it up. I will be more than ready to correct myself. Till then so long!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Federer Scroll down to the playing style part- it says that his first serve is typically 125mph and it is sourced at the bottom of the page, so don't come crying that it is a wikipedia link where anyone can say anything. its sourced! those are match statistics taken from 2008 to 2010. Anyone who's seen them for their whole career knows that Federer's serve is better than Nadal's serve significantly, just like how Sampras's serve was bette than Agassi's (though the gap isnt as pronounced between the curent duo, it is still a gulf of difference, not an ocean like it was with Sampras and Agassi). He hits it harder, he places it better. He actually slices the ball far more often, which is tailormade for a grass court player. PS: Dont forget that tennis is not a perfectly equal sport, it ever so slightly favours the left handed player!

[zep1706]

No' date=' the bottomline is your opinion is also an opinion. Read the article you posted. Professionals like Rusedski and Taylor Dent have said that the courts have been getting slower and slower at wimbledon since 2001. Not just that it suddenly got slow and stayed the same slow. That proves my point that Nadal only won wimbledon because it was slower than the wimbledon of the past.[/quote'] It is widely known that Wimbledon changed the grass composition and hence slowed down the courts in 2001. The fact that you didn't know it shows your ignorance. The news I posted was from 2005. Even then people were complaining that the courts were slow. Federer himself in 2008 said that he didn't find the court speed to be any different from 2001. That Wikipedia link is a generic statement with a bunch of dead links. That's not a proof. Even I can change that. One of the matches that they linked was the 2009 final. Here are the stats. Average first serve speed in 118 for Federer. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/07/05/tennis-wimbledon-federer-statistics-idUKL449183720090705 Nadal is very well capable of hitting that kind of speed. In fact in 2010 US open he was constantly hitting serves over 130 mph. Federer in general has a better serve than Nadal because of his placement, it has nothing to do with speed.

[zep1706]

FYI don't forget to read my earlier edited post. I added something more to it about the US open being slowed down in 2003. You didn't read the NY times article. It was there.

[Muloghonto]

It is widely known that Wimbledon changed the grass composition and hence slowed down the courts in 2001. The fact that you didn't know it shows your ignorance. The news I posted was from 2005. Even then people were complaining that the courts were slow. Federer himself in 2008 has said that he didn't find the court speed to be any different from 2001.

It is also widely known that the courts didnt just get instantly slow for 2001 and stay the same speed, it got slower and slower for the next several years, until it was SIGNIFICANTLY slower. That is from your own link.

That Wikipedia link is a generic statement with a bunch of dead links. That's not a proof. Even I can change that. One of the matches that they linked was the 2009 final. Here are the stats. Average first serve speed in 118 for Federer. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2009/07/05/tennis-wimbledon-federer-statistics-idUKL449183720090705 Nadal is very well capable of hitting that kind of speed. In fact in 2010 US open he was constantly hitting serves over 130 mph. Federer in general has a better serve then Nadal because of his placement, it has nothing to do with speed.

Your link is a dead link too buddy. Nadal hitting 130mph :haha::haha::haha: Now i know- we have a Nadal fanboy here. Federer in general has a faster serve than Nadal. Nadal might've gotten lucky and cranked a one-off monster at 130mph. FYI Federer's fastest serve is 140mph. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fastest_recorded_tennis_serves Federer's serve is better than Nadal's in every categoric way. Faster, more accurate, better disguised and more accurate. Which is why Federer has consistently served more aces than Nadal throughout his career. Even a 32 year old Federer hits more aces than a 27 year old Nadal at his peak.

[zep1706]

@Muloghonto Show me one match of any stage of his career where Federer has an average first serve speed of significantly higher than 115 mph or just STFU. You have zero objective knowledge of tennis. I simply don't give a flying **** about your personal opinion. PS. The link that I gave you works perfectly here. Here is a cached version of the same http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r7tchAEXSd4J:uk.reuters.com/article/2009/07/05/tennis-wimbledon-federer-statistics-idUKL449183720090705+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

[Cricketics]

For the sake of a decent tennis tourno we need Murray to beat Fed then Rafa, Murray vs Stan final could be a close match. Rafa will smash Fed in a semi and then Stan if they meet in the final If Stan is fully fit after today he should beat Berdy

I don't think Rafa will "Smash" fED. Fed has picked Edberg as a coach, a little late, but at probably perfect time now. I am sure he will help him ease past those moments where he is always seem to be troubled against certain opponents. One of them being Nadal. I am not saying he is going to sail through and beat Nadal, but it iwll be a great match to watch. Better than I expect Murray vs Nadal.

[Muloghonto]

Even in wimbledon 2013, a 32 year old Federer was averaging 118mph first serve speed to a 112mph first serve speed of Nadal. http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/day8/1133ms.html http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/day10/1224ms.html Go to this website: http://tennis.matchstat.com/index.php?ControllerName=Compare&Name_Player1=Rafael+Nadal&Id_Player1=677&Name_Player2=Roger+Federer&Id_Player2=19 See the match stats dating back to 8-9 years ago. Even though its in kmph, Federer is a good 7-20kph faster on the average first serve speed than Nadal on a consistent basis. In tennis, thats a huge difference.

[zep1706]

I don't think Rafa will "Smash" fED. Fed has picked Edberg as a coach, a little late, but at probably perfect time now. I am sure he will help him ease past those moments where he is always seem to be troubled against certain opponents. One of them being Nadal. I am not saying he is going to sail through and beat Nadal, but it iwll be a great match to watch. Better than I expect Murray vs Nadal.

Federer looked really good against Tsonga, it will be interesting to see if he can keep that level up. If he does he can trouble anybody including Nadal.

[Muloghonto]

@Muloghonto Show me one match of any stage of his career where Federer has an average first serve speed of significantly higher than 115 mph or just STFU. You have zero objective knowledge of tennis. I simply don't give a flying **** about your personal opinion. PS. The link that I gave you works perfectly here. Here is a cached version of the same http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:r7tchAEXSd4J:uk.reuters.com/article/2009/07/05/tennis-wimbledon-federer-statistics-idUKL449183720090705+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

Anyone who thinks Nadal and Federer serve at the same speed either has never played tennis or has no clue about tennis. :haha::haha: The proof is in the pudding in the previous post i made. Federer is consistently 10-20kph faster on AVERAGE than Nadal Now, telephone home to ask your parents to teach you some manners that they obviously forgot !

[zep1706]

Even in wimbledon 2013, a 32 year old Federer was averaging 118mph first serve speed to a 112mph first serve speed of Nadal. http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/day8/1133ms.html http://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/scores/stats/day10/1224ms.html Go to this website: http://tennis.matchstat.com/index.php?ControllerName=Compare&Name_Player1=Rafael+Nadal&Id_Player1=677&Name_Player2=Roger+Federer&Id_Player2=19 See the match stats dating back to 8-9 years ago. Even though its in kmph, Federer is a good 7-20kph faster on the average first serve speed than Nadal on a consistent basis. In tennis, thats a huge difference.

Service speed doesn't go down considerably. Sampras still serves lights out in the senior tour. He can easily serve 130 mph. Federer has always been around that mark. Nadal looks to get more first serve in. He compromises that by serving slower than his top speed. He always get 70% first serve in. He is capable of serving fast if he feels like. His first serve average was 119 mph for the tournament in US open 2010.

[zep1706]

Anyone who thinks Nadal and Federer serve at the same speed either has never played tennis or has no clue about tennis. :haha::haha: The proof is in the pudding in the previous post i made. Federer is consistently 15-20kph faster on AVERAGE than Nadal Now, telephone home to ask your parents to teach you some manners that they obviously forgot !

The difference between you and me is that you are a hater and I am not. I know how to appreciate everyone even if they are not my favorites like Federer or Djokovic. May be someday you will learn that too. It gives you mental peace, especially when your favorite's record will be surpassed. :haha:

[zep1706]

@Muloghonto Proof about Nadal's 2010 service speed. Do read it. Will clear your misconception. But for that you need to be unbiased. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2013/09/03/us-open-2013-rafael-nadal/2760563/

[Muloghonto]

Service speed doesn't go down considerably. Sampras still serves lights out in the senior tour. He can easily serve 130 mph. Federer has always been around that mark. Nadal looks to get more first serve in. He compromises that by serving slower than his top speed. He always get 70% first serve in. He is capable of serving fast if he feels like. His first serve average was 119 mph for the tournament in US open 2010.

Service speed does go down considerably when you got a bad back, you git. Federer has been having back trouble for the last couple of years and it is well known enough that he gets asked about it in interviews! Look at the link i gave you. Federer has a solid 15-20kph over Nadal's serve. Nadal's first serve % drops below 70% when he tries to crank it out at over 180kph on average. Federer when he slows down to less than 190kph, has well over 70% first serve rate. 2007 Wimbledon they both had 71% serve percentage, Federer's average first serve was 193kph, Nadal's was 178kph. A good 15kph slower. Everyone can drop their speed by 5-10% and get first serves to get over 75% mark, the point is that Nadal rarely has served as fast or as well as Federer has and I don't think his serve is good enough to survive on faster courts- which is why he whines about it.

[Cricketics]

Federer looked really good against Tsonga' date=' it will be interesting to see if he can keep that level up. If he does he can trouble anybody including Nadal.[/quote'] Exactly, and I do expect him to do this. He for some reason, has really looked focused. Though I don't want to doubt that Nadal is a beast too. I hope Feder win since I am his big fan but may the best player win. I won't really mind if one of Berdyc/Wawrinka are able to clinch the title somehow. It will be really hard, but they are both in se mis and one of them will be the finalist, so all the best to them. They deserve to be where they are.

[zep1706]

@Muloghotno Read the above post to know Nadal's capability. it's another thing that he doesn't try to serve fast but he is capable of doing that if he feels the need. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2013/09/03/us-open-2013-rafael-nadal/2760563/

[Muloghonto]

The difference between you and me is that you are a hater and I am not. I know how to appreciate everyone even if they are not my favorites like Federer or Djokovic. May be someday you will learn that too. It gives you mental peace' date=' especially when your favorite's record will be surpassed. :haha:[/quote'] So i am a hater for saying that Nadal isnt worth 13 grand slams because he plays on the slowest hard courts & grass ever (which is a fact) but you are not a hater for saying Roger Federer cannot serve & volley ? :haha::haha: I know that Nadal is the best claycourter ever. But I also know that Federer is the best tennis player to've been born so far. That doesn't make me a hater. I am simply stating it as is.

[Muloghonto]

@Muloghotno Read the above post to know Nadal's capability. it's another thing that he doesn't try to serve fast but he is capable of doing that if he feels the need. http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/tennis/2013/09/03/us-open-2013-rafael-nadal/2760563/

Everyone is capable of serving 10-15% faster than their average speed. Nadal isnt capable of putting in 50% or more first serves in at the same speeds that Federer operates, which is why he does it at slower speeds. Or else why the feck would you deliberately serve slow if you are not a serve & volleyer ?

[zep1706]

So i am a hater for saying that Nadal isnt worth 13 grand slams because he plays on the slowest hard courts & grass ever (which is a fact) but you are not a hater for saying Roger Federer cannot serve & volley ? :haha::haha:

I never said he cannot. Don't put words in my mouth. I said he cannot be considered as one of the best serve and volleyer ever because he didn't do it enough. We don't know what would have happened if he consistently serve and volleyed and as I said before your opinion means squat. Nadal is already considered as one of the greatest player of all time by most people. You don't? good for you!

[zep1706]

Everyone is capable of serving 10-15% faster than their average speed. Nadal isnt capable of putting in 50% or more first serves in at the same speeds that Federer operates' date=' which is why he does it at slower speeds. Or else why the feck would you deliberately serve slow if you are not a serve & volleyer ?[/quote'] Again lack of basic logic. Nadal was serving well above 60% in 2010 when he was serving at that speed. He now goes over 70% and usually close to 75%. You initially said he doesn't have a fast serve and I debunked it with proof. The fact is, if he needs it he can go big. In the 1990s. he would have. He has the capability.

[Muloghonto]

I never said he cannot. Don't put words in my mouth. I said he cannot be considered as one of the best serve and volleyer ever because he didn't do it enough. We don't know what would have happened if he consistently serve and volleyed and as I said before your opinion means squat. Nadal is already considered as one of the greatest player of all time by most people. You don't? good for you!

He served and volleyed for the first 5 years of his career and beat Sampras doing so. We know that if Federer was good enough to serve & volley and beat Sampras at wimbledon, he was good enough to win in the 90s. As i said, even a 40 year old Sampras today would lose wimbledon to one of Federer/Murray/Djokovic or Berdych. Not Nadal. It isnt just my opinion, it is opinion of almost every single tennis great that Federer is one of the best serve & volleyers. You don't like it, you can feck off with your Nadal fanboyism. I already said that Nadal is the greatest claycourter ever- which automatically puts him into one of the greatest of alltime. Just that Federer is *the* greatest of alltime.