JaiRamesh2 Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 [url=http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/narendra-modi-pm-popularity-even-more-than-candidate-modi/1/378314.html]The nation says it likes PM Modi even more than candidate Modi : India' date=' News - India Today[/url'] BJP stands to win 314 seats all by itself if elections are conducted now! Even if BJP continue at the current pace of reforms and decision making, congress will struggle to go past 40 in five years. Slowly Nehruvian Congress will be eradicated from India, state by state. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gs Posted August 22, 2014 Share Posted August 22, 2014 Even if BJP continue at the current pace of reforms and decision making' date=' congress will struggle to go past 40 in five years.[b'] Slowly Nehruvian Congress will be eradicated from India, state by state. Amen! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Bypolls 12 seats in UP are also happening next month. If, as expected, BJP wins big then I think quite a few SP MLAs are also ready to defect or at least they will do so ahead of the next elections in 2017. Agreed. In fact they should have called for polls in Delhi immediately after forming the Govt and they also shouldn't have made Dr. Harshvardhan a Minister, instead they should have made him the CM candidate. still some time to go to the UP elections. SP also have comfortable majority. Makes no sense to jump ship right now. They will probably jump in numbers closer to the main election. Agree on delhi. Feel BJP have messed up their delhi prospects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 reports on twitter that BJP alliance odds on to win 7 of the 10 seats contested. 3 will goto the other alliance. not official though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Even if BJP continue at the current pace of reforms and decision making' date=' congress will struggle to go past 40 in five years. Slowly Nehruvian Congress will be eradicated from India, state by state.[/quote'] Why do BJP bhakts want congress to be eradicated ? are you guys truly believers in individual rights and the power of the vote or just fanboys of politicians and think that elections are just a means to get into power ?!? For, even if you are BJP supporter ( and the last six months have made me a BJP backer, if not an outright supporter), why the heck would you want the destruction of the oldest political institution in India ? On the balance of things they are far from the worst political party you could conceive- they are not totally inept in foreign policy like the parties from south east asia or totally religious persecution like the parties from pakistan. yes, they are corrupt, they are the kings of nepotism and their social policies are out-dated. But they have a huge track record of governance and their irradication will be a severe blow to the democratic landscape of India. A party dying is never good for democracy (much more preferable for parties to mutate than die) and the death of the only party that has had national dominance and presence in ALL states, would be a terrible thing for Indian democracy long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why do BJP bhakts want congress to be eradicated ? are you guys truly believers in individual rights and the power of the vote or just fanboys of politicians and think that elections are just a means to get into power ?!? For, even if you are BJP supporter ( and the last six months have made me a BJP backer, if not an outright supporter), why the heck would you want the destruction of the oldest political institution in India ? On the balance of things they are far from the worst political party you could conceive- they are not totally inept in foreign policy like the parties from south east asia or totally religious persecution like the parties from pakistan. yes, they are corrupt, they are the kings of nepotism and their social policies are out-dated. But they have a huge track record of governance and their irradication will be a severe blow to the democratic landscape of India. A party dying is never good for democracy (much more preferable for parties to mutate than die) and the death of the only party that has had national dominance and presence in ALL states, would be a terrible thing for Indian democracy long term. not really. somebody else will emerge to become a centre left party. Lets not forget the Janta Dal. The BJP emerged from the ranks of the janata dal to replace it as the party of the centre. Something will come out of the congress collapsing. Thats not to say Congress will collapse. IMO people are writing them off a bit too much. There has been an evolution in the BJP itself. I think its more of a party of centre and western india with places like Guj, MP and Chattisgragh where it has governed for 15 plus years. It initially was a UP based party + add on in the 90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gattaca Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why do BJP bhakts want congress to be eradicated ? are you guys truly believers in individual rights and the power of the vote or just fanboys of politicians and think that elections are just a means to get into power ?!? For, even if you are BJP supporter ( and the last six months have made me a BJP backer, if not an outright supporter), why the heck would you want the destruction of the oldest political institution in India ? On the balance of things they are far from the worst political party you could conceive- they are not totally inept in foreign policy like the parties from south east asia or totally religious persecution like the parties from pakistan. yes, they are corrupt, they are the kings of nepotism and their social policies are out-dated. But they have a huge track record of governance and their irradication will be a severe blow to the democratic landscape of India. A party dying is never good for democracy (much more preferable for parties to mutate than die) and the death of the only party that has had national dominance and presence in ALL states, would be a terrible thing for Indian democracy long term. Agree good opposition is necessary for democracy. Ideally you would want left and right leaning ideologies in a democracy. But congress in its current form has to die. Their decision making has been real slow and they seem to sideline powerful leaders in their own party ex Pranab mukerjee. They have think beyond gandhis. This proxy leadership of someone leading and governed by someone in the background will not work. India needs more decisive leadership. After close to 60 years governance they survived with less innovation in policies feel they got complacent with the kind of landslide victories they had in the past. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If Congress moves away from the Nehru Dynasty then it can come back much, much faster. Otherwise tough days ahead for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why do BJP bhakts want congress to be eradicated ? are you guys truly believers in individual rights and the power of the vote or just fanboys of politicians and think that elections are just a means to get into power ?!? For, even if you are BJP supporter ( and the last six months have made me a BJP backer, if not an outright supporter), why the heck would you want the destruction of the oldest political institution in India ? On the balance of things they are far from the worst political party you could conceive- they are not totally inept in foreign policy like the parties from south east asia or totally religious persecution like the parties from pakistan. yes, they are corrupt, they are the kings of nepotism and their social policies are out-dated. But they have a huge track record of governance and their irradication will be a severe blow to the democratic landscape of India. A party dying is never good for democracy (much more preferable for parties to mutate than die) and the death of the only party that has had national dominance and presence in ALL states, would be a terrible thing for Indian democracy long term. a. Its not showing any signs of learning from mistakes. Had Congress thrown out the Gandhis and decided to concentrate on party rebuilding from base, I'd agree b. I am a Modi bhakt, but not a BJP fanatic. I am actually a supporter of the Congress leadership in my state that is Kerala. I believe that if Congress at a national level takes a leaf out of Kerala and incorporate merit based progression into its leadership, then obviously we'd have a party that did justice to its century old heritage. c. No point in comparing our parties with the ones in Pakistan, that is nonsensical - we should compare with nations above us, not below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 If Congress moves away from the Nehru Dynasty then it can come back much' date=' much faster. Otherwise tough days ahead for them.[/quote'] precisely... one of the states they did well in last elections was kerala... and believe me, Gandhis are ZERO factor in this state. Nobody cares about Rahul, in fact many Congress politicians believe he is more of a liability than an asset. But despite being incumbent at state, Cong managed to procure more seats than expected. Why? Because despite recent sex scandals (Kerala - always land of sex scandals), people decided to vote for congress because of their pro-development agenda. Unlike the left which doesn't have one. Besides they timely installed VM Sudheeran, who is probably AK Antony's grandfather when it comes to clean image and hard stance on corruption and core Congressi politices (prohibition), as Congress chief in the state, which worked hugely to their benefit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 precisely... one of the states they did well in last elections was kerala... and believe me, Gandhis are ZERO factor in this state. Nobody cares about Rahul, in fact many Congress politicians believe he is more of a liability than an asset. But despite being incumbent at state, Cong managed to procure more seats than expected. Why? Because despite recent sex scandals (Kerala - always land of sex scandals), people decided to vote for congress because of their pro-development agenda. Unlike the left which doesn't have one. Besides they timely installed VM Sudheeran, who is probably AK Antony's grandfather when it comes to clean image and hard stance on corruption and core Congressi politices (prohibition), as Congress chief in the state, which worked hugely to their benefit. As far as Rahul is concerned, its true in many states that he is considered a liability. But Cong is unlikely to change at least for the next 10 years - everyone is already asking for Priyanka to openly join politics and I think sooner rather than later she will do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muloghonto Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 not really. somebody else will emerge to become a centre left party. Lets not forget the Janta Dal. The BJP emerged from the ranks of the janata dal to replace it as the party of the centre. Something will come out of the congress collapsing. Thats not to say Congress will collapse. IMO people are writing them off a bit too much. There has been an evolution in the BJP itself. I think its more of a party of centre and western india with places like Guj, MP and Chattisgragh where it has governed for 15 plus years. It initially was a UP based party + add on in the 90s. Credible replacement party emerging from the embers of a dying onehas been a rare phenomenon. Party is power and power likes to concentrate itself- thats inherent to power. When parties fall, the power concentrates- the dominant parties get away with more and more, gather more and more defections and fragments of the power and newer power emerges very rarely. For every one example of a credible opposition emerging from the embers of a dead party, there are 10 examples of a credible replacement never arising and the power getting more stratified and concentrated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 not really. somebody else will emerge to become a centre left party. Lets not forget the Janta Dal. The BJP emerged from the ranks of the janata dal to replace it as the party of the centre. Something will come out of the congress collapsing. Thats not to say Congress will collapse. IMO people are writing them off a bit too much. There has been an evolution in the BJP itself. I think its more of a party of centre and western india with places like Guj, MP and Chattisgragh where it has governed for 15 plus years. It initially was a UP based party + add on in the 90s. The problem with that is the fact the Indian politics today is largely rooted in the idea of dynasty - every single party (apart from the Left parties and too some extent even BJP) is a Pvt Ltd company run by a family. The only party/leader who I think has the potential to go National in maybe a decade would be BSP. BUT despite having a presence in more states than almost all other regional parties, Mayawati has till date not concentrated on any other state except maybe Uttrakhand and Delhi (apart from UP of course). If she does that and tries to create some kind of leadership in a few other states then in a few years BSP can become a National party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Why do BJP bhakts want congress to be eradicated ? are you guys truly believers in individual rights and the power of the vote or just fanboys of politicians and think that elections are just a means to get into power ?!? For, even if you are BJP supporter ( and the last six months have made me a BJP backer, if not an outright supporter), why the heck would you want the destruction of the oldest political institution in India ? On the balance of things they are far from the worst political party you could conceive- they are not totally inept in foreign policy like the parties from south east asia or totally religious persecution like the parties from pakistan. yes, they are corrupt, they are the kings of nepotism and their social policies are out-dated. But they have a huge track record of governance and their irradication will be a severe blow to the democratic landscape of India. A party dying is never good for democracy (much more preferable for parties to mutate than die) and the death of the only party that has had national dominance and presence in ALL states, would be a terrible thing for Indian democracy long term. You say it like it is an achievement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Credible replacement party emerging from the embers of a dying onehas been a rare phenomenon. Party is power and power likes to concentrate itself- thats inherent to power. When parties fall, the power concentrates- the dominant parties get away with more and more, gather more and more defections and fragments of the power and newer power emerges very rarely. For every one example of a credible opposition emerging from the embers of a dead party, there are 10 examples of a credible replacement never arising and the power getting more stratified and concentrated. India to date has had 3 national parties. Parties who have a major presence in the lok sabha in 5 major states and have won more than 100 seats. Janata Party (and its various forms) , the BJP and the Congress. You have to look at the way the Janata party was formed. I Gandhi was getting more authoritarian by the day. 1971 had put ideas in her head. Regional sartaps came together and formed the a party which won the 1977 election. Similarly if Modi or anybody or any party sweeps the elections for the next 10 years (or 2-3 election cycles). The regional sartaps will combine again. For all you know BJD, AIADMK, Trinamool, SP, Bihar alliance might band together A power vacuum cannot and will not remain forever. Something will emerge. You see Lalu and Nitish combining and you know that people are simply not going to take it that the BJP is romping away to victory if its the only national party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_B_ Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 The problem with that is the fact the Indian politics today is largely rooted in the idea of dynasty - every single party (apart from the Left parties and too some extent even BJP) is a Pvt Ltd company run by a family. The only party/leader who I think has the potential to go National in maybe a decade would be BSP. BUT despite having a presence in more states than almost all other regional parties' date=' Mayawati has till date not concentrated on any other state except maybe Uttrakhand and Delhi (apart from UP of course). If she does that and tries to create some kind of leadership in a few other states then in a few years BSP can become a National party.[/quote'] It will be like a franchise. With power sharing. There is not much stopping say the BJD for forming a party with the trinamool specifically for the lok sabha elections. Personally as i said, i doubt the congress will fade away as a national party. Despite the gandhis they do have the roots and infra. But if they do then somebody is going to step up in their place. You have to look at the trinamool and ncp. Emerged as a offshoot of the congress. Now major players in state politics. Nothing is going to stop another Devraj Urs from emerging in Karnataka and there might even be a local Rajasthani leader who breaks away from the congress and forms his own local party to fight the bjp. Just as the Janata dal split into local parties. So will the congress split into regional parties. They will combine to stop the BJP when the time comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Namo's BJP is the worst nightmare of the mandals. If they are successful, we could be rid of both state feudals and the gungadeen empire in one swoop. How awesome is that. :om::om: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 India to date has had 3 national parties. Parties who have a major presence in the lok sabha in 5 major states and have won more than 100 seats. Janata Party (and its various forms) , the BJP and the Congress. You have to look at the way the Janata party was formed. I Gandhi was getting more authoritarian by the day. 1971 had put ideas in her head. Regional sartaps came together and formed the a party which won the 1977 election. Similarly if Modi or anybody or any party sweeps the elections for the next 10 years (or 2-3 election cycles). The regional sartaps will combine again. For all you know BJD, AIADMK, Trinamool, SP, Bihar alliance might band together A power vacuum cannot and will not remain forever. Something will emerge. You see Lalu and Nitish combining and you know that people are simply not going to take the BJP romping away to victory if its the only national party. The very nature of the Janata Party was such that it was never going to survive for a long time - it was a eclectic collection of men full of egos and their own ambitions to become PM ended up being too much for them to work together for a long time. These days its much, much worse bcoz everyone - Mayawati, MSY, Jayalalitha, Mamta, Sharad Pawar, Nitish Kumar etc - all of them want to be PM and their egos are much bigger. Another thing is that in the time of Janata Party there were certain leaders (like MorarJi Desai or Charan Singh or AtalJi) who had a National presence and could get votes in many states. Among today's regional satraps there is not a single one who could, say, go from Bihar and get votes in Maharashtra or go from WB and get votes in Rajasthan etc. So in the end I think Congress will be the only alternative left for most of these and they will enter into an alliance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
surajmal Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Ohh and the ultimate bugle call of scaremongering cargo cultists: Democracy will be in danger. :hysterical::hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Precambrian Posted August 23, 2014 Share Posted August 23, 2014 Honestly there is no need for alternative if the party in center is doing a good job. Why Gujarat has no opposition to speak of in last 15 years? In this age? Why? Coz, TINA> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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