Tendulkar Analysed: by Hari Sampath.

[zubinpepsi]

Where did I ever say Sachin was rubbish ?? I have gone on record on these same forums' date=' saying [b']he is one of my TOP 5 all time favorite cricketers

and nobody here is inetersted gives a hoot about who is in your top 5 or 10.. :finger: dont sound yourself like a warne.... aint gonna work here.. ur just an average fair weather fan who claims to know the in and out of cricket and also the cricketers... btw keep throwing ur garbage... :two_thumbs_up:

[Guest HariSampath]

Chandan... this was my post in another thread...

Let me try to shoot my top 5....Its probably gonna be Sir Donald....once, twice, thrice....well, I seriously believe that all cricketers come under only 2 categories, Sir Donald Bradman and others...so.well, my five would have to be. ( only Sir Don is in order of greatness, others just as I think, and not in any order) 1. Sir Donald Bradman. 2. Muthiah Muralitharan 3. Sir Vivian Richards 4. Wasim Akram 5. Sachin Tendulkar Sir Garfield Sobers and Geofrey Boycott too are very close on this, but as I hadn't seen them play and ....yes, they could well be 4 of the remaining 6 , after Donald Bradman ( who I almost felt like have seen, regretted never to have seen, but realised never HAVE to see)

[Gambit]

Hari, it was me who moved your posts and others from the tribute thread to here. If you the thread title to be renamed to something else, tell me.

[Guest HariSampath]

I'm afraid I don't know who has created this thread Hari, but I'm sure there was a good reason for it rather than a mischievous one as you are surmising. I haven't followed the threads on this board today so I can't comment on the particular reason for why this thread was spawned but I'm guessing that the thread this has been spawned off from must have gone way off topic. Let me know what you'd like the thread to be named, and I will rename it. And calm down will ya :)

The point is varun how would it be if I were a mod, and simply create a new thread from your posts and call it something like "India sucks according to varun"... without even asking you , informing you or anything ?? Is this responsible moderation ? and pray... how can any post of mine on the topic Sachin batting of 18 years be considered off topic, when I was referring to Sachin's batting of 18 years in certain countries and in ODIs and against certain opposition ???

[Gambit]

To give some perspective and using statistics in a very broad manner ( by no means conclusive...and no intent to deride Sachin as a fantastic batsman or to mindlessly bash Sachin' date=' mind you)...here is a small sample of how Sachin has fared in [b']those ODI inngs when he had been dismissed by some of the top bowlers of Sachin's era. McGrath, Lee, Pollock, Donald, Akram, Vaas, Murali,Akthar, Ntini, etc.....These are the bowlers who had dismissed Sachin more times than others.... from 4 times to 9 times each ( just ODIs ) For example Sachin's avg score in the 9 innings he had been dismissed by Pollock is 5.22, meaning Sachin got a total of 45 runs in the 9 innings that Pollock dismissed him. This can be interpreted as having scored those runs when dismissed by that particular bowler and is NOT Sachin's avg against SA, and has nothing to do with other innings when he had been dismissed by other bowlers. Moreover this doesn't mean that all those 45 runs were scored off Pollock. This is simply an average performance indicator whenever Sachin was dismissed by Pollock alone. Thats how this stat should be interpreted for all bowlers. Sachin against Bowlers Avg score BOWLER Sachin's avg Pollock : 5.22 McGrath : 23.85 Brett Lee : 20.14 Vaas : 20.88 Walsh : 8.66 Warne : 100.00 ( only 1 innings) Donald : 22.60 Murali : 46.25 Waquar : 34.25 Akram : 5.00 Daniel Fleming : 48.20 Flintoff : 53.75

Highly inaccurate stats. Basically means that if SRT scores 140*,35,91 and 0 against a McGrath led Australia and gets dismissed by McGrath only once, for example on 0, then his average against McGrath based on the CI stat v bowler would be 0. bharat has already pointed this out.

[Gambit]

The point is varun how would it be if I were a mod' date=' and simply create a new thread from your posts and call it something like "India sucks according to varun"... without even asking you , informing you or anything ?? Is this responsible moderation ?[/quote'] Why the storm in a teacup? What's wrong about HS on SRT as a title? Why are you being so defensive about it? After I moved the posts across, I left a message in the '18 years' thread pleading people to leave the thread for tributes only.

[zubinpepsi]

Gambit he has to harp on something.. and this moderation seems to b the best choice as of now for him.. since he lost very much in tht useless stats he provided.... and hes whining asif his name has been brough to shame....

[Guest HariSampath]

Hari, it was me who moved your posts and others from the tribute thread to here. If you the thread title to be renamed to something else, tell me.

thanks for informing me now gambo....an where was it mentioned it was purely a "tribute thread"..in fact I had asked boss to state it if it was so, and he didn't. Then , why give the impression that I was "SRT bashing" on a tribute thread, when all I had done was engage in intelligent debate of Sachin's ODI performances over 18 years by quoting facts and stats . The person who started the thread needs to either answer me or simply say his thread was purely meant for SRT tribute and no critical and realistic analysis would be tolerated or no stats of Sachin over his 18 year career would be permitted

[Gambit]

thanks for informing me now gambo....an where was it mentioned it was purely a "tribute thread"..in fact I had asked boss to state it if it was so' date=' and he didn't. Then , why give the impression that I was "SRT bashing" on a tribute thread, when all I had done was engage in intelligent debate of Sachin's ODI performances over 18 years by quoting facts and stats . The person who started the thread needs to either answer me or simply say his thread was purely meant for SRT tribute and no critical and realistic analysis would be tolerated or no stats of Sachin over his 18 year career would be permitted[/quote'] HS, apologies for not leaving an explicit message in this thread or the other one but I was in a bit of a rush. Regarding the other thread, BB did mention that:

thanks for the kind words Gambo ..... just a request to you guys to ensure that this thread isnt taken to the toilet as well by the usual suspects.

Shall I rename this thread to something else?

[Guest HariSampath]

Highly inaccurate stats. Basically means that if SRT scores 140*' date='35,91 and 0 against a McGrath led Australia and gets dismissed by McGrath only once, for example on 0, then his average against McGrath based on the CI stat v bowler would be 0. bharat has already pointed this out.[/quote'] I had CLEARLY stated those stats were ONLY for the innings dismissed by that particular bowler...and also as in the case of Warne, Ihad pointed out specifically only one innings. Also I had further stated that those stats are by no means conclusive and only an indicator. Further I have clearly stated when you take it along with Sachin's ODI stats when playing in Aus, NZ, SA etc, which is very poor all thru his career, these bowler stats give us an indication. Understood ?

[Chandan]

But the thread title doesn't say anything of that sort Hari. You are giving your verdict on Sachin, and that is why Gambit called it HS on SRT. Quite right, I'd say!

[Gambit]

^^ Not really. I don't want to get into another SRT thread anyway because I've had my fair share of debates in the past 2 months or so. Waiting to see how he does in tests now.

[Guest HariSampath]

HS, apologies for not leaving an explicit message in this thread or the other one but I was in a bit of a rush. Regarding the other thread, BB did mention that: Shall I rename this thread to something else?

Yes, please rename it Tendulkar Analysed: by Hari Sampath. Because I intend to do a very straightforward and honest analysis, neither bashing nor bootlicking, just a straightforward analysis of Sachin, as he is one of my all time top 5 cricketers as I had already indicated several times on many topics here in this forum Of course the original post should be mine too as I choose to write it

[Chandan]

I had CLEARLY stated those stats were ONLY for the innings dismissed by that particular bowler...and also as in the case of Warne, Ihad pointed out specifically only one innings. Also I had further stated that those stats are by no means conclusive and only an indicator. Further I have clearly stated when you take it along with Sachin's ODI stats when playing in Aus, NZ, SA etc, which is very poor all thru his career, these bowler stats give us an indication. Understood ?

Why do you want to discuss that, Hari? Either you agree that Sachin has been a great player in ODI or you don't. If you don't agree with that, stay with your judgement. Why do you want to pull out stats and that too such inaccurate ones (IMO)?

[Guest HariSampath]

But the thread title doesn't say anything of that sort Hari. You are giving your verdict on Sachin, and that is why Gambit called it HS on SRT. Quite right, I'd say!

I didn't like the fact an analysis of Sachin on that thread was removed and it was made as if it was removed cos I was SRT bashing..... which I had never ever done anywhere. Truly speaking, I am probably a more realistic and genuine admirer of Sachin and have known about his arrival and growth in cricket longer than most people on this board, and I have known more about his cricket from at least 3 Indian captains under whom he played, directly. I have further stated elsewhere I had flown for hours on end and thousands of miles just to see Sachin play first class games. In view of all this, I just didn't like the apparent spin to my posts that was given by moving them

[Guest HariSampath]

Why do you want to discuss that, Hari?

Isn't Sachin and his batting one of the most discussion worthy topics ? I think so

Either you agree that Sachin has been a great player in ODI or you don't. If you don't agree with that, stay with your judgement.

"great " is a loosely used adjective, and this is one of the things I wanted to analyse, and to put across my perspective of how great Sachin's batting has been, and in what context. It certainly has, by the way, over these years, which is why I had named in my all time top 5

Why do you want to pull out stats and that too such inaccurate ones

Sachin's record and stats are very accurate , they are on cricinfo.... his individual dismissals against top bowlers, his avg in those innings, his overall avg in many countries etc. I had quoted accurate figures

[Chandan]

I didn't like the fact an analysis of Sachin on that thread was removed and it was made as if it was removed cos I was SRT bashing..... which I had never ever done anywhere. Truly speaking, I am probably a more realistic and genuine admirer of Sachin and have known about his arrival and growth in cricket longer than most people on this board, and I have known more about his cricket from at least 3 Indian captains under whom he played, directly. I have further stated elsewhere I had flown for hours on end and thousands of miles just to see Sachin play first class games. In view of all this, I just didn't like the apparent spin to my posts that was given by moving them

I don't think you were bashing Sachin either. It was just that the thread was going away from its original post. When I responded to one of your posts, even I told you that we could discuss this further on some other thread, say Viv vs Lillee instead of the thread we were discussing on. It is quite a job for mods to see that the thread doesn't get hijacked from its original topic. And I have to agree that we were getting away from its original topic!

[Chandan]

Sachin's record and stats are very accurate , they are on cricinfo.... his individual dismissals against top bowlers, his avg in those innings, his overall avg in many countries etc. I had quoted accurate figures

Now tell me one thing--do you watch cricket for the sake of numbers or stats or averages?? Stats are put just to bolster/support your opinion. Your are pulling out stats without telling us what do you want to prove and what is your opinion on what. In other words, on hand you go on to say that Sachin is one of the top 5 players of all times in your opinion, while on other you are pulling out these stats. It is quite confusing. Secondly, cricinfo stats are found to be one of the more stupid stats presentation which are presented without context, never taking into account the pitches, conditions, low scoring matches, high scoring matches etc. They are the most inaccurate stats!

[Guest HariSampath]

Now tell me one thing--do you watch cricket for the sake of numbers or stats or averages?? Stats are put just to bolster/support your opinion. Your are pulling out stats without telling us what do you want to prove and what is your opinion on what. In other words, on hand you go on to say that Sachin is one of the top 5 players of all times in your opinion, while on other you are pulling out these stats. It is quite confusing. Secondly, cricinfo stats are found to be one of the more stupid stats presentation which are presented without context, never taking into account the pitches, conditions, low scoring matches, high scoring matches etc. They are the most inaccurate stats!

Statistics are like bikinis, what they reveal is suggestive, what they conceal is vital :D I know it sounds apparently contradictory when I voice my opinion of sachin.... but I shall clarify in a few hours ....watch this space

[bharat297]

Further I have clearly stated when you take it along with Sachin's ODI stats when playing in Aus, NZ, SA etc, which is very poor all thru his career, these bowler stats give us an indication. Understood ?

Well lets see how true your statement is ... Lets look at the averages of a sample of six players Tendulkar, Sanath, Inzamam, Lara, Gilchrist and Kallis In AUSTRALIA * Lara - 40.44 * Tendulkar - 35.14 * Kallis - 32.83 * Sanath - 29.52 * Inzy - 26.09 * Gilchrist - excluded for this country In ENGLAND * Kallis - 50.00 * Tendulkar - 43.79 * Gilchrist - 37.62 * Lara - 37.57 * Inzy - 34.17 In NEW ZEALAND * Lara - 45.88 * Kallis - 40.18 * Gilchrist - 34.94 * Tendulkar - 30.36 * Sanath - 30.09 * Inzy - 24.04 In SOUTH AFRICA * Tendulkar - 40.40 * Lara - 38.36 * Gilchrist - 33.6 * Sanath - 32.83 * Inzy - 27.04 * Kallis - excluded for this country Add to that the fact that he has averaged 61.18 and 42.16 in his last 2 world cups in both SAF and ENG. So if your stats were to prove that he has done better in subcontinental conditions than non-subcontinental conditions ... wow ... I could have told you that !!! You dont need stats for that. I can say without stats that Ponting has done better in non-subcontinental conditions than in subcontinental conditions . However if your stats were to prove that his records in these countries is somewhat abysmal, I think that (besides maybe New Zealand) he hasnt really struggled and in some countries he has excelled.