Guldozer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Everything should be criticized and questioned. It should create a debate about what we are doing right or wrong and not just following something that's written in a book blindly. Otherwise, how will we progress as a society ? If you are too intolerant about other people's views and just hold on to your own beliefs and think they cant be challenged , it leads to extremist mentality. Terrorism and hatred and violence towards people belonging to other communities is a result of such thinking. Tolerance creates more compassion and understanding for others and leads to harmony. Its not about majority or minority. I'm not talking about India alone. Can any movie criticizing aspects of Islam be made anywhere without severe repercussions and violence ? There has been a Pakistani movie based on Islam. It openely criticised Islamic extremism, and echos the view of the average Pakistani. Called Khuda Kay Liye, stars Fawad Khan, Shaan and Naseeruddin Shah. Perhaps the most popular Pakistani movie. r_0QgduCv9M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Did the movie get banned ? Its still playing and people are still watching it' date=' right ? Now can you convince me if a similar movie criticizing certain aspects of Islam can play in hundreds of threaters in India or other parts of the world ? Why the double standards and[b'] why so much intolerance ? Are you trying to say we should be tolerant of intolerance showed through vandalism of theatres? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I doubt it criticizes any aspect of Islam. Such a movie will never be released in Pak. Its more likely a movie where terrorism is denounced and said terrorists are misinterpreting Koran and not real followers of Islam etc. Will any movie be released in Pakistan or other Islam country where Mohammad is depicted in a film or criticize any verses of Koran ? Just cartoons of Mohammad itself have resulted in widespread protests and violence in Muslim world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Are you trying to say we should be tolerant of intolerance showed through vandalism of theatres? Vandalism of theatres should be condemned. Stupid people are everywhere but largely, the movie has been playing in theaters in India successfully and people havent had any problems with it as they have been flocking to see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I doubt it criticizes any aspect of Islam. Such a movie will never be released in Pak. Its more likely a movie where terrorism is denounced and said terrorists are misinterpreting Koran and not real followers of Islam etc. Will any movie be released in Pakistan or other Islam country where Mohammad is depicted in a film or criticize any verses of Koran ? Just cartoons of Mohammad itself have resulted in widespread protests and violence in Muslim world. The thing is that PK didn't say that Hinduism is fake. To me it seemed like it was criticising people misusing religion to gain money, which can be applied to most religions. In this movie, the religion chosen was Hinduism and it made sense because India has a Hindu majority. As for the cartoons, they are not just cartoons, they were extremely offensive and also the fact that we are not allowed to keep photos / pictures of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But we have to understand that there are stupid people in every community who make a bad name for their community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 The thing is that PK didn't say that Hinduism is fake. To me it seemed like it was criticising people misusing religion to gain money' date= which can be applied to most religions. In this movie, the religion chosen was Hinduism and it made sense because India has a Hindu majority. As for the cartoons, they are not just cartoons, they were extremely offensive and also the fact that we are not allowed to keep photos / pictures of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). But we have to understand that there are stupid people in every community who make a bad name for their community. If the movie had used Islam instead of Hinduism to get this point across, the reactions would have been way more violent and most likely resulted in a ban. Even a low budget movie called "Innocence of Muslims" made by a nobody created widespread furore in the Muslim world. "caused demonstrations and violent protests against the video to break out on September 11 in Egypt and spread to other Arab and Muslim nations and to some western countries. The protests have led to hundreds of injuries and over 50 deaths. Fatwas calling for the maker's death have been issued against the video's participants and a Pakistani minister has offered a bounty for the killing of Nakoula, the producer. The film has sparked debates about freedom of speech and Internet censorship." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coffee_rules Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 As for the cartoons, they are not just cartoons, they were extremely offensive and also the fact that we are not allowed to keep photos / pictures of Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). Not of the Prophet, but I have been to many muslim houses where there is a photo of Mecca/Kaba and it is revered. Like this one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 There has been a Pakistani movie based on Islam. It openely criticised Islamic extremism, and echos the view of the average Pakistani. Called Khuda Kay Liye, stars Fawad Khan, Shaan and Naseeruddin Shah. Perhaps the most popular Pakistani movie. r_0QgduCv9M If i remember right, at the end of the movie nasseruddin shah uses his interpretation of the quran to explain certain human values to the audience. I believe such values should stand independently and above any holy book. If you need the book to believe in such values then tomorrow some else will give a more convincing interpretation using other passages in book that might contradict these values. That shouldn't happen, basic human values should always come first, and somewhere down the line of importance you can have all your holy books and their interpretations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 I doubt it criticizes any aspect of Islam. Such a movie will never be released in Pak. Its more likely a movie where terrorism is denounced and said terrorists are misinterpreting Koran and not real followers of Islam etc. You are right, this was the technique used in the movie to explain the obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 If i remember right' date=' at the end of the movie nasseruddin shah uses his interpretation of the quran to explain certain human values to the audience. I believe such values should stand independently and above any holy book. If you need the book to believe in such values then tomorrow some else will give a more convincing interpretation using other passages in book that might contradict these values. That shouldn't happen, basic human values should always come first, and somewhere down the line of importance you can have all your holy books and their interpretations.[/quote'] Yeah you're right Naseeruddin Shah comes at the end of the movie. It basically criticises the misconceptions created by some Moulvis. Taking pictures is fine but the reason we are not allowed pictures of the prophets is to avoid idolism etc. There a lot of difference between inciting hatred, showing extreme ignorance towards a religion and criticising the misuse of religion (to make money for example). It's OK to criticise religion, but it's not OK to mock a religion and people's believes. Though the fact that people died because of it is extremely sad and wrong. And I have already said why it would be wrong to use Islam instead of Hinduism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 You are right' date=' this was the technique used in the movie to explain the obvious.[/quote'] But it is true that outright criticism of Islam would never be allowed in a country like Pakistan. But comparing our standards of freedom of speech with Pakistan is like saying Saha is better wicket keeper batsman in Australia because he averages more than Dhoni. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 But it is true that outright criticism of Islam would never be allowed in a country like Pakistan. But comparing our standards of freedom of speech with Pakistan is like saying Saha is better wicket keeper batsman in Australia because he averages more than Dhoni. Can you show me a movie which shows outright criticism of Hinduism? And please, don't try to show India as something it clearly isn't. There would have been no Pakistan today if India really was that secular. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Yeah you're right Naseeruddin Shah comes at the end of the movie. It basically criticises the misconceptions created by some Moulvis. Taking pictures is fine but the reason we are not allowed pictures of the prophets is to avoid idolism etc. There a lot of difference between inciting hatred, showing extreme ignorance towards a religion and criticising the misuse of religion (to make money for example). It's OK to criticise religion, but it's not OK to mock a religion and people's believes. Though the fact that people died because of it is extremely sad and wrong. And I have already said why it would be wrong to use Islam instead of Hinduism. Because criticism of any aspect/ideology of Muslims seems to evoke extreme reactions from some quarters. Theo Van Gogh who made a film called "Submission" about the treatment of women in Islam was killed by an Islamic terrorist. This is just an example. There have been many other instances of extreme violence caused by Muslims because they were offended by a movie or book which has criticized any aspect of Islam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hhunaeh Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 But it is true that outright criticism of Islam would never be allowed in a country like Pakistan. But comparing our standards of freedom of speech with Pakistan is like saying Saha is better wicket keeper batsman in Australia because he averages more than Dhoni. nasseruddin shah need not have criticized islam. He could have explained ethics and values without using the quran as a crutch. Why should people be lead to believe that certain values are right because that's what really present in the quran , they should believe in it because it is right and it is a basic value of all humans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 nasseruddin shah need not have criticized islam. He could have explained ethics and values without using the quran as a crutch. Why should people be lead to believe that certain values are right because that's what really present in the quran ' date=' they should believe in it because it is right and it is a basic value of all humans.[/quote'] Yeah.. that is my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guldozer Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 But those are extremists. The average, normal Muslim has nothing to do with terrorism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raghav_12 Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Can you show me a movie which shows outright criticism of Hinduism? And please, don't try to show India as something it clearly isn't. There would have been no Pakistan today if India really was that secular. well, don't want to go in that discussion. I'll not have much sense of achievement by proving that Indian society is more tolerant than Pakistani society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalia_Test Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Can you show me a movie which shows outright criticism of Hinduism? And please, don't try to show India as something it clearly isn't. There would have been no Pakistan today if India really was that secular. Criticism comes when there is extremism like current Islam.You don't know Indian film history if you think we don't criticize hinduism. And Bollywood is not all of Indian cinema. And how about a movie in Pakistan where Prophet Mohammad is seen running around like we showed Lord Shiva in PK? We have all seen what happened in Paris and what Pakistanis did to christian brick makers. You don't worship material things...why do you see Prophet Mohammed in the paper where a cartoon is printed? Why can't you see it as a paper with some image? Why do you think the paper is the Prophet? Muslims say there is no concept of nation-state. Why did you need a separate nation then? Even the flawed 2-nation theory was crushed when Bangladesh was liberated. India has flaws but is any day and night better than Pakistan. Why did 16% minorities become 2% minorities? Any answer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kubrickian Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 These extremists seem to be quite a few in number. Read up about Taslima Nasrin. She had to move out of Bangladesh and live in exile because she criticized aspects of Koran. Even when she lived in India, she was attacked by Muslim mobs and also there were protests to send her out of Bengal and she had to live in house arrest in Delhi. I'm sure you would have also known about Salman Rushdie. These are just a few examples, there are many more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riya Posted January 9, 2015 Share Posted January 9, 2015 Oh please, if they forcefully obstructed the screening of PK, why its still playing in hundreds of theaters across India and collecting hundreds of crores ? Now can you imagine if a movie was made criticizing any aspect of Islam or Mohammad ? I personally believe any artist or filmmaker should have the freedom to tell any story or express his/her beliefs. But its also the right of any individual to protest against it peacefully but with some religions, criticizing something would mean death. My point is we shouldn't have allowed even that simple attack against theaters nor against MF Hussain...we don't need to go the Islamic fundamentalist way,.Its because of their intolerance things have reached to a level,that there are rallies and protest to deny immigration for Muslim people.So for their intolerance they are getting what its.Even moderate muslims are called terrorist sympathisers..We should never stoop to that level is what i meant..That has to start from discouraging our extremists. I never claimed that we have reached that level.But we need to stop those tendencies right at the beginning..Forget about Pak,its the state that burned alive two innocnet people using blasphemy law,that too in front of their kids.So thats their level of ''tolerance''.We should worry about ourselves.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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