India Might Go Second Even With 0-2

[Dhondy]

Thunderstorms hit Galle today. The ground is flooded and the 3rd Test looks like a draw even before it has begun. Important portents for India in those angry clouds. I was telling Shwetabh yesterday that irrespective of the result of the SL-England series, India will stay 4th. All SL have to do is draw the next match, and they will leapfrog India into 3rd place on an identical 109 integer points, but ahead on decimals. If England win the next Test, they actually drop a point and go down to 110. However, they stay second. If SL win the final Test, they overtake SA into second place, with 110.6 points, rounded off to 111. You would always want your side to win whenever they take the field, but in the ensuing series, because of the huge disparity in current points tally between the two sides (Australia 143, India 109), the visitors have all to gain and little to lose from the points perspective. Look at the effect of various outcomes on India's points tally. Parentheses indicate rounding off to nearest integer. 2-0 or 3-1----117.3 (117) 1-0 or 2-1----115.9 (116) 1-1 or 2-2----113.3 (113) 1-2 or 0-1----110.7 (111) 0-2 or 1-3----109.4 (109) 0-3----108.1 (108) 0-4----106.7 (107) Note that India are currently on 108.8 points, rounded off to 109. Therefore, they would gain points for any outcome better than 0-3. What's more, if the next SL-England Test ends in a draw, as is looking likely due to those thunderstorms in the emerald isle, India would go second even if they are whipped 0-2 by Australia. In the case of a decisive result in Galle, no matter who wins, India can still go second with a series outcome of 0-1 or better. There are some perks to playing Australia, after all.

[Ram]

Rankings aside, I wouldnt view this a chance to shore up some points by " losing decently" against the Aus. The gap between Aus and rest of the teams is staggering, the incentive to beat them is higher. It would have been nice had we won the Pak series convincingly and were ranked no.2 going into the Aus series.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Dhondy]

Yes, there is a glaring defect in the ICC ranking system. It penalises teams who have played more Tests at the time that it kicked in. Let us assume that both India and NZ are on 109 points. However, as of today, India have a match total of 33 to New Zealand's 18. Now, if India play Australia in a 4 Test series, and draw 0-0, 1-1, or 2-2, they come away with 113.5 points. If on the other hand, NZ draw the same series, they end up with 116.4 points, scoring almost three points more for the same outcome. Big difference.

[Shehezaada]

don't worry doc sahib...we're gonna win the series, so we'll be fine for #2

[fineleg]

don't worry doc sahib...we're gonna win the series' date=' so we'll be fine for #2[/quote'] :call2:

[Chandan]

don't worry doc sahib...we're gonna win the series' date=' so we'll be fine for #2[/quote'] Very high hopes Shahzaada. Lower your expectations a bit. How on earth are we going to win? Do we have bowlers to take 20 wickets even once? We don't. Vaas, Murali, Malinga and Fernando are a better attack than ours and they could take a sum total of 11 Australian wickets in the entire tour. And you expect an inferior attack to take 20 Australian wickets, not once but more often??? Please!!!

[Ram]

Dont worry Chandan, I heard we are making Arun Lal our keeper. He will irritate the hell out of the Aus batsman and they will get out. Lal will be our man of the series ! :two_thumbs_up:

[The Outsider]

Chandan, what makes you think our attack is inferior to Sri Lanka's in Australian conditions. Kumble has had much more success than Murali there. Zaheer in his current form is a much better bowler than Vaas. RP Singh is also decidedly better than Maharoof/Fernando. Malinga was the only better bowler the Lankans had and they did not play him in the first test. PS : I am not saying we are going to win or anything, but the series will be much closer than the pasting Sri Lanka received. I would go for a 2-1 results either way.

[guju24]

Very high hopes Shahzaada. Lower your expectations a bit. How on earth are we going to win? Do we have bowlers to take 20 wickets even once? We don't. Vaas, Murali, Malinga and Fernando are a better attack than ours and they could take a sum total of 11 Australian wickets in the entire tour. And you expect an inferior attack to take 20 Australian wickets, not once but more often??? Please!!!

our jambo is only capable of those four lankans u mention...and RP and Zheer always showed some potential on overseas wickets...and batting is up to mark rite now...so we have good chance for winning here...if we play some aggressive and sensible cricket for next three months...

[siddhu]

I think winning the series 1-0 against Pak cost us the second place, if we were to win the 3-0 or even 2-0 (but i an not so sure on this one), we definitely would have been #2

[Shehezaada]

Very high hopes Shahzaada. Lower your expectations a bit. How on earth are we going to win? Do we have bowlers to take 20 wickets even once? We don't. Vaas, Murali, Malinga and Fernando are a better attack than ours and they could take a sum total of 11 Australian wickets in the entire tour. And you expect an inferior attack to take 20 Australian wickets, not once but more often??? Please!!!

why? as shwetabh has pointed out, we have a better attack then SL. Also a batting line up in form that will put pressure on the aussies. Life is about being positive Chandan, not about lowering expectations.

[Chandan]

why? as shwetabh has pointed out, we have a better attack then SL. Also a batting line up in form that will put pressure on the aussies. Life is about being positive Chandan, not about lowering expectations.

No matter how much positive I become, I just don't see us winning there. Then I didn't expect India to win in 03-04 too. Yet they did win a test. But I don't think Australia will make the same mistake again--that is to under-estimate the Indians and also to have an unsettled attack. They seem very focussed this time. So I don't have much expectations from Inadia this time. and I think I'm being realistic here, not negative!

[sandtest]

Our Batting is far better than SL......I have high hopes with this batting line-up. This tour has all time best bating line with India. So don't take India lightly with all those white and black wash predictions

[The Outsider]

They seem very focussed this time. So I don't have much expectations from Inadia this time. and I think I'm being realistic here, not negative!

Test cricket is a very intriguing game, Chandan. It's not just about comparing individuals. There is a lot of mental aspect of it to it as a team. Ever since India wiped away Australia at the Kotla 12 years back, they have tended to raise their game every time they have confronted each other, except in '99-'00. Just the confidence of having won so much against them and having the likes of Tendulkar and Dravid can boost our bowler's confidence.

[siddhu]

Test cricket is a very intriguing game' date=' Chandan. It's not just about comparing individuals. There is a lot of mental aspect of it to it as a team. Ever since India wiped away Australia at the Kotla 12 years back, they have tended to raise their game every time they have confronted each other, except in '99-'00. Just the confidence of having won so much against them and having the likes of Tendulkar and Dravid can boost our bowler's confidence.[/quote'] u r raising my hopes and expectations too. i just hope i don't fall on my face.:D

[Chandan]

Let us hope so Shwetabh. But tell me how disappointed will you be if we fail to win a single test?

[fineleg]

No matter how much positive I become, I just don't see us winning there. Then I didn't expect India to win in 03-04 too. Yet they did win a test. But I don't think Australia will make the same mistake again--that is to under-estimate the Indians and also to have an unsettled attack. They seem very focussed this time. So I don't have much expectations from Inadia this time. and I think I'm being realistic here, not negative!

Chandan, In ICF, if you are realistic, the word used by some is negative. Thats the way it is. realistic == negative in ICF lingo. I'm not saying this myself, but from experience here. I know you have far more experience than me, not taking that point away. Also, when people say "Be optimistic" - if *we* (personally) are the performers then we can try to be optimistic because we have some control over the performance. But when we are watching people like munaf patel and ishant sharma and the most-erratic-Sehwag...we dont control their selection or performance on any given day...so we can only go based on strengths and weaknesses vis-a-vis Aussie players.

[The Outsider]

But tell me how disappointed will you be if we fail to win a single test?

Very disappointed. I expect the number 2 team in the world to win at least one test against the number 1 over 4 test matches on result oriented pitches.

[The Outsider]

I just don't see the reasoning behind all the negative vibes. I am not saying we will win in Australia, but that it's not going to be a drubbing by any extent of imagination. India has some top class batsmen in good form, has a spinner who has over the years learned to bowl on all kinds of tracks, has a young and enthusiastic seam attack, and most importantly has the confidence of not rolling over at the sight of the Aussies. There has been no India-Australia series which has been one sided in this decade. We have continuously stood up and challenged them right from Calcutta '01 to Bombay '04. What is the logic behind all these calls for a whitewash?