I was out: Symonds

[Guest Hiten.]

Damn. Symonds, were you for real ? No sh*t dudeeeee

[Guest HariSampath]

back to topic...while I do think that players like Symmo, Ponting and sachin have cheated in games... I am not sure whether they can be classified in a blanket manner as cheats...just that some players do take advantage in heated game situations knowing they are out. What about bowlers who know 100% a ball is pitched outside leg stump, but still appeal without shame ( I don't mean marginal cases, just clearcut cases , by 2 ft or more)..? isnt this an instance of cheating as well...as well as appealing when u know the catch was grassed, or saying "don't know", when your foot touches the boundary rope etc

[Guest dada_rocks]

I am intersted in L K Advani stories anecdotes.....Any interesting ones..??

[Ram]

back to topic...while I do think that players like Symmo, Ponting and sachin have cheated in games... I am not sure whether they can be classified in a blanket manner as cheats...just that some players do take advantage in heated game situations knowing they are out. What about bowlers who know 100% a ball is pitched outside leg stump, but still appeal without shame ( I don't mean marginal cases, just clearcut cases , by 2 ft or more)..? isnt this an instance of cheating as well...as well as appealing when u know the catch was grassed, or saying "don't know", when your foot touches the boundary rope etc

Depends on what you classify as cheating. Cheating, as a generic team, cannot be applied to all situations. If we are to get really pecky here, then almost every activity we do in life has some amount of slyness to it, whether be it in school, college or work. So do all of us qualify as cheats ? Surely not. As long as the players are within the rules of the game, one can never call them cheats. Its the umpire's job to decide whether the batsman is out or not and its incumbent on him to make the right decision, and not binding on the player to walk if he had nicked it, or not appeal if the ball pitched outside leg-stump. Unlike many here, i see the umpire as an integral part of a cricket match, someone who can influence the game with his sense of judgment and on some occasions, the lack of it. If a batsman skies the ball and fielder drops a sitter, does the batsman tell to himself, " Well, i played a bad shot, i should walk anyway ?" and trudge off ? Of course not. Similarly, if the bowler bowls a pathetic shot ball outside off-stump and the batsman hits it straight to third-man does the bowler say " That was a bad ball,you dont deserve to be out on that ? " Again, of course not. The umpire plays a similar role. Every appeal is a test of his judgments, similar to how every ball is test to the batsman, or every catch is a test to the fielder. Many times, the batsman misses the ball and gets bowled, the fielder misses a dolly, an umpire also makes an error in his judgment.

[Guest HariSampath]

@ DR..your post^...plenty of anecdotes..but it may not be topic here...will write something elsewhere ( politics etc thread)..but one small incident I shall say very briefly ( if others forgive this off topic)..I was asked by LKA ahd the Indian Govt to be with his group in wasgington DC btwn jan 8th and 9th , 2002, when LKA was visiting US to meet Bush regarding an anti terrorism agreement. LKA was staying at The Willard Intercontinental , DC, and me at the capitol Hilton ( ***sigh*** Indian embassy budgets)....After a meeting addressed by LKA at the Omni Shoreham, he asked the NRI Ambassador Bhishma Agnihotri to bring me to The Willard. I was the last person he met that night at 10.30 pm, in his presidential suite, and he asked me just one question " Hari, tell me what would you suggest if I asked you just one point regarding my meeting with President Bush tomorrow morn"...I repled " Sir, all I would say is , you are far too seasoned to know what has been happening after 9/11 last 2-3 months. Generally speaking, most Indian leaders come here bowing down and making requests to the US administration, I know you are not like that"...Next day LKA met Bush and his first words were " Mr President, I have not come here to ask you anything, but just to tell you something. Pakistan cannot be your ally against terrorism on the western borders and a state sponsor of terrorism on its eastern borders. Despite being your ally, if I find anything opposed to our interests, I shall not hesitate to defend our interests irrespective of your interests in Afghanistan" The President replied " Mr Advani, I had heard you are a very tough person , from Ambassador Blackwill, now I know why that is so. I am myself known as a toxic Texan in these parts"...Washington Times carried stories the next day with headlines "Toxic Texan meets Indian Iron man" :-) All this was when there were troops amassed on the India Pak border after 9/11 and LKA the second in command of Indian Govt was a key security personality from a global nuclear flashpoint perspective, from the US Govt's analysis

[kumble_rocks]

I did have so many threats ( mostly by state govt level politicians in S India)...and once my car was broken and I was mildly assaulted in India' date=' but nothing major. With rgds to that sai baba, he is an acknowledged fraud, and as he himself is now crippled , sick and senile, not much to do for me. I had done my small bit, and [b']he is now an exposed fraud with a few followers who are in denial, and who will wake up when he dies soon. btw...It was not a one man crusade.... some 150-200 people were involved from 25 countries, I was merely coordinating.

Stop your BS right now you fool .. any tom dick and harry knows that Sai Baba has millions of followers worldwide.. heck I wouldn't be exaggerating if I say more devotees than Sikhism or Judaism ..

[Guest HariSampath]

KR...sai baba HAD a few tens of thousands of followers... NOT millions...and right now he doesn't have even those. he stands exposed, whole world knows he is not God..and that he is a fraud..his fakings and so called miracles have been exposed by video worldwide ( I had supplied even copies to the SC of India and CBI)...and he is just a crippled, senile , drooling old sinner, reaping the deeds of lifelong debauchery and cheating innocent spiritual seekers....Just give Sai baba topic a rest, if you want I shall argue it separately.

[Guest HariSampath]

Depends on what you classify as cheating. Cheating, as a generic team, cannot be applied to all situations. If we are to get really pecky here, then almost every activity we do in life has some amount of slyness to it, whether be it in school, college or work. So do all of us qualify as cheats ? Surely not. As long as the players are within the rules of the game, one can never call them cheats. Its the umpire's job to decide whether the batsman is out or not and its incumbent on him to make the right decision, and not binding on the player to walk if he had nicked it, or not appeal if the ball pitched outside leg-stump. Unlike many here, i see the umpire as an integral part of a cricket match, someone who can influence the game with his sense of judgment and on some occasions, the lack of it. If a batsman skies the ball and fielder drops a sitter, does the batsman tell to himself, " Well, i played a bad shot, i should walk anyway ?" and trudge off ? Of course not. Similarly, if the bowler bowls a pathetic shot ball outside off-stump and the batsman hits it straight to third-man does the bowler say " That was a bad ball,you dont deserve to be out on that ? " Again, of course not. The umpire plays a similar role. Every appeal is a test of his judgments, similar to how every ball is test to the batsman, or every catch is a test to the fielder. Many times, the batsman misses the ball and gets bowled, the fielder misses a dolly, an umpire also makes an error in his judgment.

Well, for the purposes of this topic, lets stick to "cheating"...as limited to rules of the game, spirit of rules, and knowledge of what happens during play while taking advantage unfairly ( like dismissals, catches claimed, boundaries etc)

[kumble_rocks]

KR...sai baba HAD a few tens of thousands of followers... NOT millions...and right now he doesn't have even those. he stands exposed' date=' whole world knows he is not God..and that he is a fraud..his fakings and so called miracles have been exposed by video worldwide ( I had supplied even copies to the SC of India and CBI)...and he is just a crippled, senile , drooling old sinner, reaping the deeds of lifelong debauchery and cheating innocent spiritual seekers....[b']Just give Sai baba topic a rest, if you want I shall argue it separately.

The moron that you are , you repeatedly bring Sai baba just to irk me ! STFU and don't bring Sai baba into cricket discussions ! It's beyond me how you are allowed to repeatedly bash Sai Baba .. he is my prophet and guru .. So again STFU and don't bring poor old Sai baba into cricket discussions . Now if you are allowed to continue your tirade against my spiritual guru , the question begs , why is Guru Nanak or Buddha or Prophet Mohammed not a fair game. Other posters have been warned by the Mods not to criticize these god/god men.

[Ram]

Well' date=' for the purposes of this topic, lets stick to "cheating"...as limited to rules of the game, spirit of rules, and knowledge of what happens during play while taking advantage unfairly ( like dismissals, catches claimed, boundaries etc)[/quote'] So, if there is plenty of afternoon dew and the fielding side is finding it almost impossible to even hold the ball, what do you want the batting captain to do ? Offer to suspend batting till the dew subsided ? After all, it isnt fair if one team fielded in perfectly dry conditions and the other has to deal with massive dew right ? Unless of course its a blatant and shameless act like ball tampering, pitch tampering, which are well and truly bonafide acts of cheating, a batsman staying despite having nicked the ball or a bowler appealing even though the ball pitches outside leg-stump should definitely NOT be termed cheating.

[coffee_rules]

KR...sai baba HAD a few tens of thousands of followers... NOT millions...and right now he doesn't have even those. he stands exposed' date=' whole world knows he is not God..and that he is a fraud..his fakings and so called miracles have been exposed by video worldwide ( I had supplied even copies to the SC of India and CBI)...and he is just a crippled, senile , drooling old sinner, reaping the deeds of lifelong debauchery and cheating innocent spiritual seekers....Just give Sai baba topic a rest, if you want I shall argue it separately.[/quote'] I guess we cannot judge people who are vulnerable and get desparate in testing times when they face adverse situations in life. Losing a son at a young age or seeing one's children go through life-threatening illness is such a situation. I know a couple who are going through this phase and would not hesitate to do or believe in anything that brings solace to them or their dear ones. If he has such followers, and they are getting some strength in dealing with their problems, I would say more power to him. That is not something I would joke around.

[Guest HariSampath]

The moron that you are ' date=' you repeatedly bring Sai baba just to irk me ! STFU and don't bring Sai baba into cricket discussions ! It's beyond me how you are allowed to repeatedly bash Sai Baba .. he is my prophet and guru .. So again STFU and don't bring poor old Sai baba into cricket discussions . Now if you are allowed to continue your tirade against my spiritual guru , the question begs , why is Guru Nanak or Buddha or Prophet Mohammed not a fair game. Other posters have been warned by the Mods not to criticize these god/god men.[/quote'] You just check the thread and see it was YOU and OTHERS who brought sai baba into this, I never ever talk about sai baba unless I am specifically addressed and asked. He may be a "guru" to you...but to hundreds of millions of people all over the world he is just a fraud..the very name sai baba...puttaparthi"....makes the common man ask " oh that man who says he is god incarnate but was caught in pedophile scandals and holy ash tricks...remember reading all about that a few years back in the int's press"...topic over. If anyone criticises Osama Bin laden as a terrorist and some slob comes here to object saying"he is my religious leader"...that doesn't give Osama the cloak of respectability or the status of a "religious leader", even though he has probably several times more followers in the world than sai baba, those followers who are ready to comit suicide based on Osama's own Islamic interpretations. Osama is not Islam...he is a terrorist who must be shot on sight...and neither is sai baba of puttaparthi a representative of Hinduism....he must be jailed for raping teen boys over 40 years past.

[kumble_rocks]

You just check the thread and see it was YOU and OTHERS who brought sai baba into this, I never ever talk about sai baba unless I am specifically addressed and asked. He may be a "guru" to you...but to hundreds of millions of people all over the world he is just a fraud..the very name sai baba...puttaparthi"....makes the common man ask " oh that man who says he is god incarnate but was caught in pedophile scandals and holy ash tricks...remember reading all about that a few years back in the int's press"...topic over. If anyone criticises Osama Bin laden as a terrorist and some slob comes here to object saying"he is my religious leader"...that doesn't give Osama the cloak of respectability or the status of a "religious leader", even though he has probably several times more followers in the world than sai baba, those followers who are ready to comit suicide based on Osama's own Islamic interpretations. Osama is not Islam...he is a terrorist who must be shot on sight...and neither is sai baba of puttaparthi a representative of Hinduism....he must be jailed for raping teen boys over 40 years past.

Cheap Liar , when did I bring Sai baba discussion ? It was you who started mouthing expletives against Sai baba.

[Guest dada_rocks]

That's how prophet/godmen start 1000 years down the line it becomes all hotch-potch zillion authors thesis on their life/words get piled .. In those thesises basically humanity of the writers come through, it has not much to do with the original godmen/prophets deeds words etc. Their each and every unpalatable word and deed get beaten to death with myriad alibis and positive spin thereby peppering the glitches which might appear as big gulf to the contemporary critics and doubters of godmen/prophet ..At the end what becomes religion is how people over the year interpreted or basically did the thinking on behalf of godmen/prophet and wrote in those books.... The credibility of source ceases to matter .. Lo and behold you have got a great religion way of life yada yada yada That in biref is evolution of a religion.. It hardly matters what Sai-baba as a person is all that matters is how the followers see him.. This is the essance of faith-industry and trust me it works just fine.. In fact it works better than the edict where emphasis is too much on one person's deed/words godmen/prohet/god whatever. Beauty of humanity shines through this kind of evolutionary process. PS: I am hungry/pissed/gutted today can't think much so if my words don't make sense sorry in advance..

[Ram]

Mods, its about time you guys stepped in... this is getting totally unpleasant and out of control...

[Guest HariSampath]

I guess we cannot judge people who are vulnerable and get desparate in testing times when they face adverse situations in life. Losing a son at a young age or seeing one's children go through life-threatening illness is such a situation. I know a couple who are going through this phase and would not hesitate to do or believe in anything that brings solace to them or their dear ones. If he has such followers' date=' and they are getting some strength in dealing with their problems, I would say more power to him. That is not something I would joke around.[/quote'] Oh yeah...what about this small example I had personally knowm. An Australian couple whose 5 year old son was suffering from cancer of blood. They are brainwashed and brought to Sai baba...he tells them "don't do conventional treatmet, surrender to me, my vibuthi shall cure him"...and sai baba gives them some magic vibuthi. The couple live in hope, and watch the boy die,...in despair, after 15 months. So...u say "strength to such godmen " ???....bullsht....imprison him for culpable homicide.

[Guest HariSampath]

Cheap Liar ' date=' when did I bring Sai baba discussion ? It was you who started mouthing expletives against Sai baba.[/quote'] NO ...see the thread...and see who mentioned sai baba first...if it was me, I shall stop posting here forever..If it was someone else...will you do the same ?? @ MM..yes.. I had asked this sai baba sh**t to stop , but it was KR who keeps throwing it out to me, even when I was trying to stick to topic....ask Mods to warn KR first...( please check thread and see)

[Ram]

Hari, your views on Sai Baba are well known, so is KR's sentiments towards him. But for the sake of keeping things sane here, could both of you please abstain from engaging each other on this ?

[Guest HariSampath]

So, if there is plenty of afternoon dew and the fielding side is finding it almost impossible to even hold the ball, what do you want the batting captain to do ? Offer to suspend batting till the dew subsided ? After all, it isnt fair if one team fielded in perfectly dry conditions and the other has to deal with massive dew right ? Unless of course its a blatant and shameless act like ball tampering, pitch tampering, which are well and truly bonafide acts of cheating, a batsman staying despite having nicked the ball or a bowler appealing even though the ball pitches outside leg-stump should definitely NOT be termed cheating.

You know very well I am not referring to dew, dropped catches, bad bowling etc. I had always been referring to acts on the field when any player knows the truth, but tries to take advantage. 1. edged the ball and stands, after knowing that he edged it 100% 2. takes a catch on the bounce, knowing fully well, and appeals 3. ball pitches 2 feet outside legstump and bowler appeals knowing 100% it is not in laws of cricket for lbw appeal. 4. fielder touches the boundary rope , knows it is a four, but signals to umpire he doesn't know because in an ODI 1-2 runs in last over may decide game. I mean incidents like above ( apart from ball tampering etc)

[Guest HariSampath]

Hari' date=' your views on Sai Baba are well known, so is KR's sentiments towards him. But for the sake of keeping things sane here, could both of you please abstain from engaging each other on this ?[/quote'] exactly...I never brought up that sai baba here at all...maybe you should tell KR this