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swami1984

Colour of skin comes in to play - dark cheerleaders told to leave

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That is absurd and is not relevant to the question on hand. Endorsing a product which changes your appearance is in no way discriminatory against those who lack that appearance. This is like saying someone who comes for ads for Jenny Craig discriminates against fat people or loathes fat people.
If the product doesn't aim to discriminate, then why does the ad propound the theory that dark guys are losers and guys with fair skin get all the chicks? Here is the ad: eqtWUezP8VA So basically, when you use the cream, girls find you handsome. :-O If the product doesn't aim to discriminate, why did this happen?
Hindustan Lever Limited, one of India's largest manufacturing and marketing conglomerates, discontinued two of its television advertisements for Fair and Lovely Fairness Cold Cream this month, after a year-long campaign led by the All India Democratic Women's Association. Increasing public criticism may be initiating a change in cultural attitudes towards skin whitening in India, a country where the fairness industry accounts for 60 percent of skincare sales, bringing in $140 million a year. The company is the Indian subsidiary of Unilever PLC, based in London. In a memo to India's National Human Rights Commission, Brinda Karat, general secretary of the women's association, calls one of the ads "discriminatory on the basis of the color of skin," and "an affront to a woman's dignity," because it shows fairer women having greater job success based on their sexuality. Fair and Lovely, one of Hindustan Lever's "power brands," is marketed in over 38 countries. Its frequently-aired ads typically show a depressed woman with few prospects gaining a brighter future by attaining a boyfriend or job after becoming markedly fairer (emphasized by several silhouettes of her face lined up dark to light). On its Web site the company calls its product, "the miracle worker," which is "proven to deliver one to three shades of change."
http://www.womensenews.org/article.cfm/dyn/aid/1308/context/archive

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The girls weren't excluded because they belong to a certain race - they were excluded because they happen to have darker skin and dark skin is not seen as a good titillating prospect in India, a well known fact. I can't recall seeing any dark Indian cheerleaders in the matches either. It's like asking the CIA to send a black person to spy in Russia in the name of racial integration instead of someone who looks like a Russian and has the looks to match the job description. We are not talking race but the color of skin and excluding dark skin cheerleaders is perfectly fine if that's what majority of the audience wants. Why shouldn't fat and physically handicapped people be part of the cheerleaders' troupe in that case?
As long as you can perform the job as well as anyone else you can't be discriminated against based on not just race, but also based on what anyone can perceive to be a general feature of a particular race (as in skin color of blacks). If everything went by what majority of the audience wants, no black person would have been allowed to perform/play anything/anywhere in the US. Majority isn't always right nor should it be the basis for rejecting people's fundamental right to equality. That's why we have laws, which of course are enacted by a majority, but ones who we hope are enacted by those who have better judgement than the general public.

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Gambit, you can't claim that just because SRK came in that ad, it means that he discriminates against people who are dark. People come in all kinds of ads for all kinds of reasons.

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As long as you can perform the job as well as anyone else you can't be discriminated against based on not just race, but also based on what anyone can perceive to be a general feature of a particular race (as in skin color of blacks). If everything went by what majority of the audience wants, no black person would have been allowed to perform/play anything/anywhere in the US. Majority isn't always right nor should it be the basis for rejecting people's fundamental right to equality.
yoda, u r not entirely right either. coming to the point of equal oppurtunity...u r spot on. everyone deserves it and no one should or can stop talent. but coming to the customer's preference... imagine u went to a lap dance club, would you pay 1000 bucks to a black woman (who may not give u a high) just because u want to give equal oppurtunity? no nah? u would want to watch the woman of your preferred breed (arab, indian, african, german...etc...) unravel and make your day right? Similarly IPL's organisers have every right to say what they want and dont want becoz they are paying for it. Now to tell them to go away properly or to tell the Whizcraft guys that they dont want black dancers would have been the right thing to do. But calling them niggers is a blunder. It is very crude.

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Gambit' date=' you can't claim that just because SRK came in that ad, it means that he discriminates against people who are dark. People come in all kinds of ads for all kinds of reasons.[/quote'] I was just trolling regarding SRK. :P But my main point is that if big celebrities like him endorse this ideology of fair>dark, then it becomes acceptable by the masses and people just don't see it as wrong or malicious. And judging by how you were defending the product, it seems you've bought into it as well.

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yoda, u r not entirely right either. coming to the point of equal oppurtunity...u r spot on. everyone deserves it and no one should or can stop talent. but coming to the customer's preference... imagine u went to a lap dance club, would you pay 1000 bucks to a black woman (who may not give u a high) just because u want to give equal oppurtunity? no nah? u would want to watch the woman of your preferred breed (arab, indian, african, german...etc...) unravel and make your day right? Similarly IPL's organisers have every right to say what they want and dont want becoz they are paying for it. Now to tell them to go away properly or to tell the Whizcraft guys that they dont want black dancers would have been the right thing to do. But calling them niggers is a blunder. It is very crude.
Customer's preference comes only if it get by the laws of the land. If a customer prefers someone commits a rape or a murder will you allow that in your premise? BTW, there is a big difference between what you do personally in the privacy of your life and what a biz does.

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sorry' date=' i forgot that you are a professional at that. You go lick all of that pro.[/quote'] See how easy it is to throw mud at someone? And the guy isn't even here to defend himself.

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See how easy it is to throw mud at someone? And the guy isn't even here to defend himself.
yoda, there is something called 'sense of humour'. even i am a srk fan. i just said that srk will do anything for money in a vulgar-comic way. you shouldn't take it seriously. easy bro.

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I was just trolling regarding SRK. :P But my main point is that if big celebrities like him endorse this ideology of fair>dark' date=' then it becomes acceptable by the masses and people just don't see it as wrong or malicious. And judging by how you were defending the product, it seems you've bought into it as well.[/quote'] Where did I defend the product? I am not even sure if it works. And if it does, nothing wrong with it. It helps combat the real discrimination that does exist today in India.

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As long as you can perform the job as well as anyone else you can't be discriminated against based on not just race, but also based on what anyone can perceive to be a general feature of a particular race (as in skin color of blacks).
The job of the cheerleaders is to provide titillating entertainment to the audience and given the make up of the audience under discussion, it's pretty fair(no pun intended) to say that the dark skin does not fit the job description, irrespective of which race that dark skin belongs to. Whether the inherent make up of the mind of the audience is right or wrong is a different question, but one cannot blame the organizers from excluding dark skinned girls from the cheerleaders' squad as we cannot blame them for excluding fat and physically handicapped people.

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Customer's preference comes only if it get by the laws of the land. If a customer prefers someone commits a rape or a murder will you allow that in your premise?
you have actually compared preference of who u want to dance - entertainment with act of raping - sadistic , perverted. I will not go beyond this.

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you have actually compared preference of who u want to dance - entertainment with act of raping - sadistic , perverted. I will not go beyond this.
No I am talking law here especially for businesses. If you go to a nudy bar and explicitly state that you only want a white and not a black, you can be sued IMO, not that I have any experience in that area.

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The job of the cheerleaders is to provide titillating entertainment to the audience and given the make up of the audience under discussion' date=' it's pretty fair(no pun intended) to say that the dark skin does not fit the job description, irrespective of which race that dark skin belongs to. Whether the inherent make up of the mind of the audience is right or wrong is a different question, but one cannot blame the organizers from excluding dark skinned girls from the cheerleaders' squad as we cannot blame them for excluding fat and physically handicapped people.[/quote'] Physically handicapped people cannot perform the job at hand. "Fat people" is "relative" and "subjective", whereas belonging to a certain race is not. Also these people were hired first and then humiliated which is indefensible.

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No I am talking law here especially for businesses. If you go to a nudy bar and explicitly state that you only want a white and not a black' date=' you can be sued IMO, not that I have any experience in that area.[/quote'] now u are making me laugh. if you get scared to tell them what kind of a girl u want, then they will ask u if you have come as a customer or to get a job there. infact your logic works the other way round, if a employee says she cant give you happiness because you are black, then she will get fired for sure.

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now u are making me laugh. if you get scared to tell them what kind of a girl u want, then they will ask u if you have come as a customer or to get a job there. infact your logic works the other way round, if a employee says she cant give you happiness because you are black, then she will get fired for sure.
you are right. it only applies to employers and not customers, although you try to openly discriminate someone based on race even as a customer you are can probably still get sued. btw, here we are talking about a job for which they have already been hired.

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you are right. it only applies to employers and not customers, although you try to openly discriminate someone based on race even as a customer you are can probably still get sued. btw, here we are talking about a job for which they have already been hired.
IPL has a contract with Whizcraft to provide them cheerleaders for the IPL games. customers have rights to demand what they want. Whizcraft will be obliged to relent to the orders. Tommorow even if IPL's organizers get sued it will be because they have used the derogatory term 'nigger' to one of Whizcraft's employees, it will not be because IPL guys have asked for girls of their racial preference. Infact Whizcraft will be sued if they refuse to send whom IPL wants. regarding openly discrimanating girls in a strip club because they dont belong to your favourite breed, you will get you butt kicked by the bouncers, yes there might be legal proceedings too. but if you ask nicely about whom you want nothing will happen.

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Physically handicapped people cannot perform the job at hand. "Fat people" is "relative" and "subjective"' date=' whereas belonging to a certain race is not. Also these people were hired first and then humiliated which is indefensible.[/quote'] Given the audience even dark skinned people cannot perform the job, which also explains the absence of dark skinned Indian cheerleaders. PS: I am not defending the company's actions regarding hiring/firing etc.

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Given the audience even dark skinned people cannot perform the job, which also explains the absence of dark skinned Indian cheerleaders. PS: I am not defending the company's actions regarding hiring/firing etc.
There is a difference. All blacks are dark skinned. So if you exclude blacks cause of skin color it is racism. Not all Indians are dark skinned. So, if you exclude Indians based on skin color it is not racism, just disgusting.

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The job of the cheerleaders is to provide titillating entertainment to the audience and given the make up of the audience under discussion' date=' [b']it's pretty fair(no pun intended) to say that the dark skin does not fit the job description, irrespective of which race that dark skin belongs to. Whether the inherent make up of the mind of the audience is right or wrong is a different question, but one cannot blame the organizers from excluding dark skinned girls from the cheerleaders' squad as we cannot blame them for excluding fat and physically handicapped people.
:--D Seriously though , What next , girls from Africa need not participate in beauty pageants like Miss Universe because the audience in majority countries ( Africa population being minority in comparison to world ) would like fair skinned girls . The bigger problem I have is why are White girls so overrated . This reflects badly on Indians who seem to still suffer from some sort of colonial hang-ups. Some of the the Ebony colored girls are gorgeous ....

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Yoda has summarized it well. You cannot ban people from a profession (even if the audience is a certain country), just because they belong to a different race (and therefore have a different color). What else is it but racism?

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The bottom line is that it is wrong if you just pluck out a person from a job just because of their colour. That classifies as discrimination. Bangalore has cheerleaders that are dark-skinned. I dont think the fans care that much.

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The bottom line is that it is wrong if you just pluck out a person from a job just because of their colour. That classifies as discrimination. Bangalore has cheerleaders that are dark-skinned. I dont think the fans care that much.
Yep, the fans do enjoy mixed cheerleaders. Its not like Bollywood, Tollywood, Kollywood, Mollywood, Bengaliwood etc have white actresses!

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Physically handicapped people cannot perform the job at hand. "Fat people" is "relative" and "subjective"' date= whereas belonging to a certain race is not. Also these people were hired first and then humiliated which is indefensible.
In the same way, "beautiful people" is "relative" and "subjective".

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:--D Seriously though ' date=' What next , girls from Africa need not participate in beauty pageants like Miss Universe because the audience in majority countries ( Africa population being minority in comparison to world ) would like fair skinned girls . The bigger problem I have is why are White girls so overrated . This reflects badly on Indians who seem to still suffer from some sort of colonial hang-ups. Some of the the Ebony colored girls are gorgeous ....[/quote'] Agree with your post completely. All I am saying is that it's simple economics why dark skinned girls are not part of the cheerleaders as it is simple economics that fat women, grannies, and physically handicapped women are not part of them. It's got nothing to do with racism. Some posters are implying that it's in some way worse to exclude Black women over dark Indian women, 80 year olds, 200 lbs girls, or girls with one leg and arm. It's not - they are simply economical decisions.

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Agree with your post completely. All I am saying is that it's simple economics why dark skinned girls are not part of the cheerleaders as it is simple economics that fat women' date=' grannies, and physically handicapped women are not part of them. It's got nothing to do with racism. Some posters are implying that it's in some way worse to exclude Black women over dark Indian women, 80 year olds, 200 lbs girls, or girls with one leg and arm. It's not - they are simply economical decisions.[/quote'] But its not the same. The cheerleaders werent taken out because they were "ugly" but simply on the basis of their colour. All dark-skinned women cannot be 'ugly'

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But its not the same. The cheerleaders werent taken out because they were "ugly" but simply on the basis of their colour. All dark-skinned women cannot be 'ugly'
Majority of the Indian audience perceives dark skinned women as not attractive if not ugly and that's whom the cheerleaders are catering for by their titillation.

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No I am talking law here especially for businesses. If you go to a nudy bar and explicitly state that you only want a white and not a black' date=' you can be sued IMO, not that I have any experience in that area.[/quote'] getting sued in titty bar for saying u want white and not black. what land u live in ?:hysterical::cantstop:

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Majority of the Indian audience perceives dark skinned women as not attractive if not ugly and that's whom the cheerleaders are catering for by their titillation.
The fans themselves did not care and danced to the cheerleaders, as the cheerleaders noted. So despite the apparent bias in India, we can't conclude that the spectators thought the dark-skinned cheerleaders were not attractive. However, the fault lies in the management company...wizcraft

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Agree with Shwetabh here. Many of you, blowing this up, as some kinda racist act, are missing the point completely. Cheerleaders are supposed to be eye candies. Hence the taste of the audience is the only thing that matters. Why is it that we see dozens of fair skinned Northie girls rule the Tamil movie industry ? Is the Tamil film industry unfairly discriminating against the dark skinned local girls, then ? If so, then what about Rajinikanth, how white is this man ? Is he not a superstar, inspite of his color ? Trust me, if tomorrow, dark skinned girls are the flavor of the month, we will see them around a lot more. Its very very simple. Whatever sells, works! Doesnt matter,whether it is white, black, brown or yellow. Cheerleaders & IPL are no different. I can, however, see why so many of you react this way. Its politically incorrect and morally shameful to approve of racist views & this almost sounds like one and therefore the moral police in us, has to wake up & protest, right ? WRONG. If you can see past the smoke screen, you will realize that its a simple business minded decision. Nothing more, nothing less. Unfair to some, alright, but not racist. Show that you are not a racist in real life. Thats what matters. When you choose your partner, friend, a colleague or a Boss, next time, let color or race not be a parameter for your decision. Cheerleaders in IPL, is hardly a topic to show your objectivity on racism.

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Bumper, If thats all it is, this will not be an illegal act. But what they did is illegal, and they are liable to be sued. (it may not happen in India, which is a different matter). So, why does the law say such discrimination is illegal, then?

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Why is it that we see dozens of fair skinned Northie girls rule the Tamil movie industry ? Is the Tamil film industry unfairly discriminating against the dark skinned local girls' date=' then ?[/quote'] Nope. I can't speak for Tamil, but its not like there are fair, unattractive Telugu girls. But good luck bringing them out of the gates of their conservative homes.

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Show that you are not a racist in real life. Thats what matters. When you choose your partner, friend, a colleague or a Boss, next time, let color or race not be a parameter for your decision. Cheerleaders in IPL, is hardly a topic to show your objectivity on racism.
I am not going to talk about my personal life with some unknown strangers on an internet site. On the contrary this is a cricket website and obviously we are going to discuss things related to IPL here. DUH!

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Bumper, If thats all it is, this will not be an illegal act. But what they did is illegal, and they are liable to be sued. (it may not happen in India, which is a different matter). So, why does the law say such discrimination is illegal, then?
The NBA & NFL is loaded with black players. Is that discrimination against the white, brown or yellow race ? Is that illegal ? Its possible that NFL or NBA could hire Indian players & then fire them later on, due to performance reasons. Would that constitute racism ?

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yoda' date=' just to a search on some escort services websites and you'll see ow race/color of skin are openly stated by the girls without any lawsuits - this is regarding your titty bar example.[/quote'] Stating race is not illegal. Discriminating someone based on race is what is illegal.

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I am not going to talk about my personal life with some unknown strangers on an internet site. On the contrary this is a cricket website and obviously we are going to discuss things related to IPL here. DUH!
Who is asking you to talk about your personal life here ? And where did i say we shouldnt discuss IPL ? DUH!:D

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Stating race is not illegal. Discriminating someone based on race is what is illegal.
Are you implying that someone states the preferred 'race', without actually discriminating against other races ?

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Are you implying that someone states the preferred 'race'' date=' without actually discriminating against other races ?[/quote'] Not 'preferred', just stating their own. See shwetabh's example. He isn't saying they are stating what their 'preferred' customer race is. Anyways, back to your NFL/NBA example. This scenario with the black cheerleaders is comparable to David Stern telling a day before the draft to all the white players that they have to withdraw from the draft cause their audience would rather watch black players fly high and dunk.

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yoda' date=' I can assure you that no one is going to sue you for stating the race of the woman you want in an escort service or titty bar!:-D[/quote'] good to know. :--D

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