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Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

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MundaPakistani Newbie

MundaPakistani

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Ok let's look at what this faithfreedom guys is saying.... "The very theme of Islam is: Allah is the sole creator of everything on heaven and Earth and Muslims are His only legitimate and righteous people. Remaining all other people (Jews, Christians, Hindus etc.) are simply infidels and hated by Allah." This genuis doesn't understand that Muslims accept most of the teachings of Christianity and judisim and Muslims believe in all the prophets that came before Mohammed(PBUH)...so now why the heck would Allah hate his followers? A Muslim's relationship with non-Muslims should be based on justice, mutual respect, cooperation, and communication. The Quran is very explicit about the justice part of the relationship when God stated in Verse 60:08 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." Then this joker goes on for the next 10 verses and starts misquoting by saying that Allah wants Muslims to kill all the non-muslims.... and commit sucide....totally false statement because sucide is very haram(major sin) in Salam....It's so funny how he adds his own flair in 'parenthesis' So d=basically the root of the word Jihad is Jahada which means "spent the energy". 1-The acts of Jihad are limitless in Islam. Work, going to school, even having sex with your spouse is classified as an act of Jihad in Islam that one will be rewarded for doing them. .2- Defending your family, money, land, country...etc. by all means including the armed means are also considered Jihad( this is highest form of Jihad) Now look at this verse Quran 2:190-193. * Fight in the cause of Allah those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for Allah loveth not transgressors. ...........................................

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MundaPakistani Newbie

MundaPakistani

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

God must have been really slow! Mo did not change much did he?
What do you mean by 'God must have been really slow'.....Do you see new borns driving cars, bashing muslims, playing cricket etc??? It should be quite apparent that every new thing takes time to grow...
So of all the people God picked someone like MO? What does that tell you about God? Common sense is missing in this world!
for some that's a proof of Quran as how a completely uneducated man was able to reveal so much about life....
split personality... deranged lunatic? Munda you really buy all that? Use some of you brain my friend!
I think you are the one who needs to use some brains or do some proper research because your 1st post was full of false statements!
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Gaurav Newbie

Gaurav

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

What do you mean by 'God must have been really slow'.....Do you see new borns driving cars, bashing muslims, playing cricket etc??? It should be quite apparent that every new thing takes time to grow...
So Mo was new born? :chin: 20+ years to reveal a small book? A book that is supposed to be "perfect" but full of contradictions? Oh! and Mo himself could not wait for Aisha to get older?
For some that's a proof of Quran as how a completely uneducated man was able to reveal so much about life....
First he did not reveal anything outstanding. Second MO's lack of knowledge shows because of the ignorant stuff he "revealed". Most of what he revealed was not even original but rip off.
I think you are the one who needs to use some brains or do some proper research because your 1st post was full of false statements!
Yes you are right I am stupid`... to think that I could use logic against a religious nut like you. I have researched sunshine that is why I can't stand such messed up ideology. For those who are too lazy I recommend this outstanding bookhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-about-Muhammad-Intolerant-Religion/dp/1596980281/sr=1-1/qid=1164571119/ref=sr_1_1/026-7381670-4052439?ie=UTF8&s=books Munda good luck with your life. I am done with you :wtg:
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Guest dada_rocks

Guest dada_rocks

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

MP .. I can do that ... but you gotta promise me that you will not get angry about it and go postal on me :hmph: ... Deal ?
deal :wtg: make sure you give me the verse # too so i understand the context
I can predict the sequence of his excuse (1) Read into context If you provide context (2) Is it from hadith or quran (3) Next will be this one is weak hadith (4) Lastly judge the actions of great man based on how other barbarians of that time used to behave it goes on and on and on.
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MundaPakistani Newbie

MundaPakistani

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

This genuis doesn't understand that Muslims accept most of the teachings of Christianity and judisim and Muslims believe in all the prophets that came before Mohammed(PBUH)...so now why the heck would Allah hate his followers?
That quite simply is not true ... especially if you see what happens to Jews in cuurent day or back in the days of Mo ... And then there is the matter of Islam vs Hindus/Pagans/Buddhists ... the polytheist religions. Again the actions of any number of luminaries and the barbaric acts they endorsed and conducted in the name of religion just tells you a different story. And the reason is very simple. Because Shirk (polytheism) is worse than Killing.Since the punishment of murder in Islam is death, the punishment of shirk, which is worse, must also be death ! Next the concept of Jizya clearly demarcates the Believers and non-believers ... this is not exactly a just or respectfull way to treat non-muslims. Its quite simply discriminatory and is aimed at forcing down religion on the Non-Ummah. Again History is proof. BTW The "Out of Context" link that I gave you quotes Ibn Khathir, arguably the most authoritative mofasser (commentator, interpreter) of the Quran. He is NOT the FFI guy. You will agree that this guy knows more about Q than any one of us here. So do OBL, Mulla Omar, and suchl clowns.
How can you say that Allah wants Muslims to hate and kill Christains and Jews? I have already told you how Quran wants Muslims to behave with the non Muslims! Maybe this will help you understand the similarities between all 3 religions. http://www.religionfacts.com/islam/comparison_charts/islam_judaism_christianity.htm
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MundaPakistani Newbie

MundaPakistani

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

So Mo was new born? :chin: 20+ years to reveal a small book? A book that is supposed to be "perfect" but full of contradictions? Oh! and Mo himself could not wait for Aisha to get older? First he did not reveal anything outstanding. Second MO's lack of knowledge shows because of the ignorant stuff he "revealed". Most of what he revealed was not even original but rip off. Yes you are right I am stupid`... to think that I could use logic against a religious nut like you. I have researched sunshine that is why I can't stand such messed up ideology. For those who are too lazy I recommend this outstanding bookhttp://www.amazon.co.uk/Truth-about-Muhammad-Intolerant-Religion/dp/1596980281/sr=1-1/qid=1164571119/ref=sr_1_1/026-7381670-4052439?ie=UTF8&s=books Munda good luck with your life. I am done with you :wtg:
Stop being childish here..I have already told you that the situation in Arabia at that time was terrible at the time...so how would it have been partical to tell teach them everything in a day or 2? It was a very slow process to turn the society around. and the question about Aisha... I understand that her young age distresses many people today, and given the current environment we live in it is quite understandable why however you should know that the youth of Arabia fifteen hundred years ago fought in battles, got married and took care of their families in their teens( so by teenage years they had their own family). This was a norm of that society. The other various accusations which are leveled against the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) are also wrong because prophet's first wife was fifteen years older than him, and every wife after 'Aisha (peace be upon her) was a widow. It's also important to know that Aisha's father(Hazat Abu Bakr) had tried to spare her the dangers of the journey to Medina( you can read about the migration of Muslims) by solemnizing her marriage to her fiance, Jubair, son of Mut`am ibn `Adi. However, Mut?am refused to honor the long-standing betrothal, as he did not wish his family to be connected to the Muslim outcasts. So it was only AFTER that incident did Mohammed(PBUH) marry Aisha.
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MundaPakistani Newbie

MundaPakistani

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

You nicely dodged Bheems' point about non Abrahamic faiths. What has your silly meaningless link got to do with non Abrahamic faiths? I forgot pagans are not even humans :chin:
I had already said the following 'A Muslim's relationship with non-Muslims should be based on justice, mutual respect, cooperation, and communication. The Quran is very explicit about the justice part of the relationship when God stated in Verse 60:08 "Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just." '
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Lurker Newbie

Lurker

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public Guys. This is a sensitive topic and kudos to MundaPakistani to take his time to address this issue. Lets deal with this in a matured way and not lead to premature death. MP, I didnt follow this thread. Let me check and maybe I shall join you folks later on. xxx

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Guest dada_rocks

Guest dada_rocks

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

Ok let's start from scratch.... Q) How was Quran revealed? Quran make down in parts...the first verse 'Iqra(which means to read)' was revealed to the Holy Prophet at the age of 40 and the last one was revealed when he was 63 years old....hence it took 23 years to reveal Quran!! Back then the Arabic society was completely on the 'wrong path'...killings, rape, robbery etc were the norm and all these criminals were hardly ever punished so for the 1st 2 years the prophet was ordered to only spread the message of 'Allah' to his close friends and relatives.
Totally unsubstantiated claim regarding back then arabic society was on completelty wrong path. A mention of people here and there indulging in daughter killing also crops up in thsi regard and again totally unsubstantiated they are. This anyway is the usual modus operandi of socalled prophets they have to paintsomehow a gory picture of the status quo in order to justify their act.
It was a good 2 years later that the prophet went 'public' with his teaching...now the message was spread to everybody in the city of Mecca so this off course enraged the Arabs who wanted to totally crush Islam so this is when things started to get messy! The Muslims were so few in number that the Arabs thought it would be quite easy to kill them all with only 1 all out attack...so this when the Arabs and the they had the battle for 'Badr' where mere 313 muslims went against over 1000 Arabs and this is when Allah ordered Muslims(through Propher off course) to go 'fight' and kill the 'non-believers' who are trying to kill Islam! So the battle was won the Muslim and Quarish(Arabs) were embarassed and now wanted to kill the muslims more than ever before. So there were many battles after that but by now they(Arabs) were running out of time as Islam started to spread quite rapidly.
Again conveneint claims: first of all muhad preached his belief for close to 13 years in macach and during this period his followers number never went beyond dozen. Contaray to the claim that pagans were hell bent on finsihign of islam fact is that no harm to muhd came until he started vilification drive against pagan's beleif and even then they ordered him to leave the place they could very well have finsihed him and his dozen followers off but they didn;t do any of those. It is pertinent to mention here that so widely quoted "there is no compulsion in matters of faith" was preached by muhd during hthe intiial days when he has no wherewithal to wage a violent fight. Not to mention never ever in quran once mud gained ascendancy god bothered to emphasize the no comulsion in religion message.. So muhd left with hsi dozen followers to medina now here he was harboured by jews (yes the same jews who later on allah described as sons and daughter of pigs) muhd kept increasing his numbers and after sometime took the governance and power of medinah in his own hands relegating the local jews to second class category... After raising his army muhd forgot all about no compulsion in religion and attacked quraish occupied makkah and gave them three options either (1) convert and becoem muslim (2) get killed (3) leave makkah so much for no compulsion in matters of faith. All these battle field were near makkah not medina where muhd was residing in these years and that tells you about who was the aggressor. Had quraish wanted to kill muhd he wud not have survivedfor 13 years in makkahs.
Now how was Quran complied and how was the message of Mohammed revealed? As most of you will know that Mohammed(PBUH) was an illiterate man so he needed help from his friends(suhabas) in the compilation. It is reported that the Prophet used to have mini ceasure and would come out with such incredible verses that it would completely surprise the people around him because remember he was totally illiterate and in normal circumstances it would have been impossible for him to come up with such 'deep' stuff! So after this he would call his secretaries (people who could write) and used to tell them what to write! The information was normally stored on numerous different objects piece of wood, leaves etc and it wasn't until a few years after the death of the Prophet the Muslim leaders decided to gather all these verses and complied them in to one single book called the Quran. So now the thing for us to see is that the Quran has verses that might at times contradict themselves e.g there is this message to be friendly to non-believers yet there are verses which say to kill the non-believers! I reckon here one needs to look at the context and consider the time in which the Quran was revealed and how the Quran was revealed! Now it's up to us to interpret that the verses about violence.....does Allah really say that kill your neighbors, fellow citizens, innocent women and children simply because they don't believe in Allah?? NO?.. because if that was the case then why would there be a mention of being nice and polite to the non believers? The verses of violence are quite simply a 'license' for the Muslims to fight back at those who attack and kill you.....Islam doesn't allow killing of the innocent be it Muslims or non Muslims and if anyone does that then he/she is a murderer which off course is considered a huge sin.
Come to my village I will hook u up with totally illiterate guys with such a fertile mind imagiantively that u will be in awe. Muhd was a frequent visitor of religious congregation and yes he was schizo-phrenic. Anyway my point is illiterate doesn't mean idiot. About propafation of god's message and reason behidn it I have few queries. asked many muslims why therewas need of quran when there already was bible . their claim can be classified in two categories (1) few claim that message got lost and corrupted in bible due to fallacy in its composition and main reaosn was it was compiled by others after jesus's death ----- If this is the case then allah god or whoever he/she/it is must be an idiot of first order who makes the same mistake in message propagation again and again. I mean why use exactly the same method even while sending quran. Some bloke claiming prophethood divulging stuff peopel tryign to recall ater his death and jotting it down sound sos familiar this is what happend in case of bible too. it would have been easier for god to hand over the whole book and aiding him in explanation one by one . This way some uncorruptibel reference would have been. Butwe all know this is the cooked up cock and bull story and hence comes in bits and pieces. (2) Others claim that since in course of time morality changes so need for new book --------- Now this puts question mark on finality of the morality code. Why final book. Morality evolution is on and if not what changed and why same morality stuck in 7th century arabia for all time which we are finding is unfit in today's time YEs quran has verses which contradict itself because muhd made it up when he went along. Conveneit verses like u can marry ur adoptd son;s wife used to coem along at the right time. In fact his youngest bride Ayesha has taken pot-shots at muhd several times saying how his socalled allah comes to hsi rescue with conveneit verses wheneer he wants to d somethign which he has earlier forbade. And yes regarding beign good to non-believers quran is talking with resecto dhimmis who pay jazya tax and rmain in subdued state. Once again this was need of muhd the warrior after all the kind of contnus war -waging tendency he had he needed some constructive gusy to fund the war and these subdued kafis with their jazaya tax came quite handy. Well even war-booty of the vanquished helped in this cause. I can go on and on this is never ending bloodthirsty story of a warrior who made story up as he went along in his war mission.
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Baadshah Newbie

Baadshah

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public The thread started of on the Burqaah but somehow side tracked :roll: There are a lot of prejudiced opinions on here. Munda Pakistani is trying his best to clear up misconceptions but it seems to have little effect. As a Muslim i'd be more than happy to have a debate in a mature fashion using facts to back up any claims that anyone wishes to make as at the moment all i see is people throwing around baseless and offensive accusations. Like i said i'd be more than happy to debate but i'd appreciate it if people stop calling our Prophet (PBUH) names as i know none of you would like it if your religion or one of your Gods was insulted.

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CC1981 Newbie

CC1981

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

There are a lot of prejudiced opinions on here.
It is to be expected- bigots are there everywhere these days. What people miss, is that this whole 'burqa = security hazard' is totally retarded line of reasoning, given that one can hide a shotgun inside a trench coat.
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Baadshah Newbie

Baadshah

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

Baadshah .. welcome to our forum ... It will be a pleasure to have a mature discussion with you. I have already posted some links in this thread ... which you can comment on.
Thank you Bheembhai. I am currently at work. Will respond ASAP, once i get home.
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Bumper Newbie

Bumper

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Re: Dutch to ban wearing burqa in public

Oh no! Another reasonable Pakistani! Where are the really evil ones? :mad: Just joking, Badshsah. Don't let these guys get away with blue murder! :hic:
Dont worry doc, we have a history of turning such blokes insane :hic: Just kidding, welcome Baadshah, how did u find us ?
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