Operation Blue Star general stabbed in London

[Lurker]

I think you're missing the point. Most Sikhs want justice' date= give them justice and the support for Khalistan will stop. Prosecute Tytler, Kumar and KPS Gill for the human rights attrocities and then it will go away and also amend Article 25 of the Indian constitution which states Sikhs are Hindus.

Nobody wants nothing, stop making weird claims. Sikhs are happy in India, Khalistan is dead. Please raise Khalistan issue in Canada and Brighton/London. Bye Bye

[The Outsider]

I think you're missing the point. Most Sikhs want justice' date=' give them justice and the support for Khalistan will stop. Prosecute Tytler, Kumar and KPS Gill for the human rights attrocities and then it will go away and also amend Article 25 of the Indian constitution which states Sikhs are Hindus.[/quote'] Most Sikhs I've known in my life don't confuse the issues as you are doing. Asking justice for the atrocities committed against Sikhs is an issue on which I completely support every petition and argument put forth. Asking for a separate state sitting thousands of miles away does not clear even my first logical hurdle.

[Ranvir]

One things that justice brings is that people get punished for their wrong doings. This then puts off other people doing the same things. If people get away with committing attrocities then they will happen again. And Lurker the widows in Delhi who lost their husbands and sons are still awaiting justice, just like the widows in Argentina who lost their sons. Everyone wants justice you foodu.

[Andrew Peter]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter . Gurudwaras are not propaganda institutions of Indian Union that have to glorify the Nehrus , Gandhis , Manmohans or Ambedkars of Bharat . Punjab being a part of India should have no bearing on whom the Sikhs want to glorify as their martyrs of Sikhism . People are talking about UK and Canada here , well Bhindranwale's portrait is installed inside the Golden Temple complex where devotees pay homage to him and just a couple of months ago a plan to construct a memorial in honour of Bhindranwale N Gang who were killed inside the temple was finalized . In the recent times ,Bhindranwale's posters are circulated during religious and election rallies to woo crowds in Punjab . Sikhs take a lot of pride in their religious history and probably want to make sure that the future generations would remember the incidents of 1984 ,that according to many was a direct attack on the Sikh identity and faith ,,which is the reason behind all these posters , memorials of Khalistani Fighters and glorification of the Assassins of Indira Gandhi in various Gurudwaras . Operation Bluestar and the anti-sikh riots were the reasons why a feeling of alienation was developed among the Sikhs and at the same time grew sympathy and respect for Khalistani rebels . Nobody respects Bhindranwale for being a bloodthirsty Hindu killer ( Which isnt true anyways but only alleged by Chamchas of Congress to justify the Sikh Genocide ) but because he was seen as a valour figure who stood up for the rights of Sikhs , fought and died while defending the holy place . Also in a country where a mass murderer like Rajiv Gandhi can be hailed as ' Bharat Ratna " , I dont think there should be any problem if some Sikhs have respect for Bhindranwale . Talk about Modi and every Indian jumps in to bash him to prove his/her patriotism , on the other hand the same "Modi Bashers " start giving absurd excuses to ignore the silent role played by Rajiv Gandhi in murdering thousand of Sikhs in broad daylight in the capital .. Yes the Official head of the country was an innocent fella who was getting over the death of his mother while his juniors were going on rioting and killing Sikhs without his knowledge , which is very surprising considering how even a Bhikari in Delhi was aware about what was going on in the city i at that time . I would blame Indira Gandhi for the khalistan problem and the current mess in Kashmir . India should have never intervened in Pakistan's internal matter by supporting Mukti Bahini , in a way Pakistani army was forced to kill their own people to defend the sovereignty of their country and Pakistan in a feeling of revenge , made sure to create the same problems of India and Indian Army were forced to take the same genocidal steps . India , however is fortunate in a way to retain all its land inspite of killing its people but the hostile neighbour on the western side would never sit quiet till it succeeds in its dream of dividing India . In all these egoistic battles between the two Nations , the only losers were the people of Bangladesh , Punjab , Kashmir and the Soldiers .

[Clarke]

Not sure if your comment is sarcastic' date=' but neutral sources have written about a real possibility of an internal attack being launched from Akal Takht while Pakistan attacked the border. You've got to realize this wasn't your ordinary seize - it was 1000+ militants with state of the art weapons under the command of a decorated former Indian army officer.[/quote'] No i am not being sarcastic. What i realize now (pardon my ignorance) is that a neighboring country was planning on an armed invasion, as opposed to the usual non-state actors. This acted as a catalyst for Blue Star in the way it ended up and the subsequent carnage. No love lost for them.

[Lurker]

And Lurker the widows in Delhi who lost their husbands and sons are still awaiting justice, just like the widows in Argentina who lost their sons. Everyone wants justice you foodu.

From Delhi to Argentina in one swoop. Lage raho barkhudaar! No wonder with that kind of supporter smartness Khalistan is long dead and remains only in minds of non-Indians :--D

[The Outsider]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter . Gurudwaras are not propaganda institutions of Indian Union that have to glorify the Nehrus , Gandhis , Manmohans or Ambedkars of Bharat . Punjab being a part of India should have no bearing on whom the Sikhs want to glorify as their martyrs of Sikhism . People are talking about UK and Canada here , well Bhindranwale's portrait is installed inside the Golden Temple complex where devotees pay homage to him and just a couple of months ago a plan to construct a memorial in honour of Bhindranwale N Gang who were killed inside the temple was finalized . In the recent times ,Bhindranwale's posters are circulated during religious and election rallies to woo crowds in Punjab . Sikhs take a lot of pride in their religious history and probably want to make sure that the future generations would remember the incidents of 1984 ,that according to many was a direct attack on the Sikh identity and faith ,,which is the reason behind all these posters , memorials of Khalistani Fighters and glorification of the Assassins of Indira Gandhi in various Gurudwaras . Operation Bluestar and the anti-sikh riots were the reasons why a feeling of alienation was developed among the Sikhs and at the same time grew sympathy and respect for Khalistani rebels . Nobody respects Bhindranwale for being a bloodthirsty Hindu killer ( Which isnt true anyways but only alleged by Chamchas of Congress to justify the Sikh Genocide ) but because he was seen as a valour figure who stood up for the rights of Sikhs , fought and died while defending the holy place . Also in a country where a mass murderer like Rajiv Gandhi can be hailed as ' Bharat Ratna " , I dont think there should be any problem if some Sikhs have respect for Bhindranwale . Talk about Modi and every Indian jumps in to bash him to prove his/her patriotism , on the other hand the same "Modi Bashers " start giving absurd excuses to ignore the silent role played by Rajiv Gandhi in murdering thousand of Sikhs in broad daylight in the capital .. Yes the Official head of the country was an innocent fella who was getting over the death of his mother while his juniors were going on rioting and killing Sikhs without his knowledge , which is very surprising considering how even a Bhikari in Delhi was aware about what was going on in the city i at that time . I would blame Indira Gandhi for the khalistan problem and the current mess in Kashmir . India should have never intervened in Pakistan's internal matter by supporting Mukti Bahini , in a way Pakistani army was forced to kill their own people to defend the sovereignty of their country and Pakistan in a feeling of revenge , made sure to create the same problems of India and Indian Army were forced to take the same genocidal steps . India , however is fortunate in a way to retain all its land inspite of killing its people but the hostile neighbour on the western side would never sit quiet till it succeeds in its dream of dividing India . In all these egoistic battles between the two Nations , the only losers were the people of Bangladesh , Punjab , Kashmir and the Soldiers .

Aur bada copy paste lagao, shayad koi padh le.:hysterical:

[Lurker]

One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter . Gurudwaras are not propaganda institutions of Indian Union that have to glorify the Nehrus , Gandhis , Manmohans or Ambedkars of Bharat . Punjab being a part of India should have no bearing on whom the Sikhs want to glorify as their martyrs of Sikhism . People are talking about UK and Canada here , well Bhindranwale's portrait is installed inside the Golden Temple complex where devotees pay homage to him and just a couple of months ago a plan to construct a memorial in honour of Bhindranwale N Gang who were killed inside the temple was finalized . In the recent times ,Bhindranwale's posters are circulated during religious and election rallies to woo crowds in Punjab . Sikhs take a lot of pride in their religious history and probably want to make sure that the future generations would remember the incidents of 1984 ,that according to many was a direct attack on the Sikh identity and faith ,,which is the reason behind all these posters , memorials of Khalistani Fighters and glorification of the Assassins of Indira Gandhi in various Gurudwaras . Operation Bluestar and the anti-sikh riots were the reasons why a feeling of alienation was developed among the Sikhs and at the same time grew sympathy and respect for Khalistani rebels . Nobody respects Bhindranwale for being a bloodthirsty Hindu killer ( Which isnt true anyways but only alleged by Chamchas of Congress to justify the Sikh Genocide ) but because he was seen as a valour figure who stood up for the rights of Sikhs , fought and died while defending the holy place . Also in a country where a mass murderer like Rajiv Gandhi can be hailed as ' Bharat Ratna " , I dont think there should be any problem if some Sikhs have respect for Bhindranwale . Talk about Modi and every Indian jumps in to bash him to prove his/her patriotism , on the other hand the same "Modi Bashers " start giving absurd excuses to ignore the silent role played by Rajiv Gandhi in murdering thousand of Sikhs in broad daylight in the capital .. Yes the Official head of the country was an innocent fella who was getting over the death of his mother while his juniors were going on rioting and killing Sikhs without his knowledge , which is very surprising considering how even a Bhikari in Delhi was aware about what was going on in the city i at that time . I would blame Indira Gandhi for the khalistan problem and the current mess in Kashmir . India should have never intervened in Pakistan's internal matter by supporting Mukti Bahini , in a way Pakistani army was forced to kill their own people to defend the sovereignty of their country and Pakistan in a feeling of revenge , made sure to create the same problems of India and Indian Army were forced to take the same genocidal steps . India , however is fortunate in a way to retain all its land inspite of killing its people but the hostile neighbour on the western side would never sit quiet till it succeeds in its dream of dividing India . In all these egoistic battles between the two Nations , the only losers were the people of Bangladesh , Punjab , Kashmir and the Soldiers .

:toilet:

[Desi Cartman]

I was in KG when all this happened so I didnt know the reasons but what I saw was terrible. I saw a sikh guy's newly renovated shop being burnt down, I saw him crying. As I sat in a rickshaw going to downtown haridwar, I saw that in a lane of 10 hotels only was burnt down and of course a sikh owned that hotel. My Nani actually wanted my mama to take up sikhism and seriously considered it. We are all hindu brahmins but this is what our families think about sikhs. I have seen countless sikh-hindu weddings. I have people who lived through delhi of 84, come with me to a temple and be more respectful to hindu gods than I have ever been. This is how good it is and has been. There was a period when it wasnt, a sikh colleague of my Dad came to drop my father and we had just returned from Mandir, he respectfully said " I cant take prasad, sorry". This from a religion which still has ram in prayers and people who still go to Vaishno devi. My dada lived in Himachal and we used to visit them every year or 2, from 84 we actually used to be scared. We took bus instead of traveling in a car, we would time our trip so that we could be out of Punjab by sunset. It was terrible and yes I saw policewalay drag a sikh guy out of the field in punjab. He had a gun and was assumed terrorist, but why he became one, well I didnt know So 84/Bhindarwale created this divide which didnt exist before the mess and has slowly gone away after the mess was finally cleaned up. Now people to people relations are back to where they were 2 decades ago. I dont see any animosity, at least in India. Couple of months ago I was in Toronto and decided to visit a Gurudwara, it was a small one. A lot of people with pagdis, I was happy to be there as I used to love visiting Gurudwara in Melbourne but here it felt awkward. Then we went downstairs for the langar and I could see 10s of pictures of dead militants. They were everywehre, with blood covered bodies and guns next to them. I felt uncomfortable, havent we all suffered and moved on ? I guess not in Canada. After looking at the pictures, my wife was scared. She is also a punjabi but doesnt speak punjabi well, she was so scared that she started talking in broken punjabi to prove she was one of them and that made people stare at her and she was even more scared now. When we came out, she asked me why Melbourne Gurudwara is so different to the Canadian one, and I think its because the one in Melbourne is run by people who moved in late 90s and after 2000 while the one in Canada is from 80s and they are still hurt but its sad that they are passing on this pain to their kids. So this is my experience, I think Indians have moved on and its best for next generation of sikhs living overseas if they move on as well.

[Lurker]

I was in KG when all this happened so I didnt know the reasons but what I saw was terrible. I saw a sikh guy's newly renovated shop being burnt down, I saw him crying. As I sat in a rickshaw going to downtown haridwar, I saw that in a lane of 10 hotels only was burnt down and of course a sikh owned that hotel. My Nani actually wanted my mama to take up sikhism and seriously considered it. We are all hindu brahmins but this is what our families think about sikhs. I have seen countless sikh-hindu weddings. I have people who lived through delhi of 84, come with me to a temple and be more respectful to hindu gods than I have ever been. This is how good it is and has been. There was a period when it wasnt, a sikh colleague of my Dad came to drop my father and we had just returned from Mandir, he respectfully said " I cant take prasad, sorry". This from a religion which still has ram in prayers and people who still go to Vaishno devi. My dada lived in Himachal and we used to visit them every year or 2, from 84 we actually used to be scared. We took bus instead of traveling in a car, we would time our trip so that we could be out of Punjab by sunset. It was terrible and yes I saw policewalay drag a sikh guy out of the field in punjab. He had a gun and was assumed terrorist, but why he became one, well I didnt know So 84/Bhindarwale created this divide which didnt exist before the mess and has slowly gone away after the mess was finally cleaned up. Now people to people relations are back to where they were 2 decades ago. I dont see any animosity, at least in India. Couple of months ago I was in Toronto and decided to visit a Gurudwara, it was a small one. A lot of people with pagdis, I was happy to be there as I used to love visiting Gurudwara in Melbourne but here it felt awkward. Then we went downstairs for the langar and I could see 10s of pictures of dead militants. They were everywehre, with blood covered bodies and guns next to them. I felt uncomfortable, havent we all suffered and moved on ? I guess not in Canada. After looking at the pictures, my wife was scared. She is also a punjabi but doesnt speak punjabi well, she was so scared that she started talking in broken punjabi to prove she was one of them and that made people stare at her and she was even more scared now. When we came out, she asked me why Melbourne Gurudwara is so different to the Canadian one, and I think its because the one in Melbourne is run by people who moved in late 90s and after 2000 while the one in Canada is from 80s and they are still hurt but its sad that they are passing on this pain to their kids. So this is my experience, I think Indians have moved on and its best for next generation of sikhs living overseas if they move on as well.

Thanks for sharing Desi. Ek chumma tumhare liye meri jaan. :boffing: My experience of 80s Sikh militancy is hearing about these violence every single day. And the affect thereof. There is a strong Sikh presence in Bihar, specially Gaya and Patna and much before Delhi riots happened many Sikh families have started to move out of Gaya. Some of these was probably because 80s was the start of bad decade for Bihar and hence the migration but I suspect a lot more was due to the fear of backlash that may happen since Hindus were being killed. Not too many folks know this, but Bihar is a pretty important place for Sikh. Patna City Takht Harmandir Sahib is one of the most sacred places for Sikh, and if you ever are in Patna it is a must see. Probably more Hindus visit that place than Sikh. In fact for many purposes Bihari Hindus may think Sikhism and Buddhism are not entirely different to Hinduism. For some reason Sikhs & Buddhist take that as an insult while it is a term of endearment. Anyway, to think that bulk of India are hostile to Sikhs is seriously retarded. I dont know who comes up with that nonsense, even in the West.

[Raghav_12]

I was in KG when all this happened so I didnt know the reasons but what I saw was terrible. I saw a sikh guy's newly renovated shop being burnt down, I saw him crying. As I sat in a rickshaw going to downtown haridwar, I saw that in a lane of 10 hotels only was burnt down and of course a sikh owned that hotel. My Nani actually wanted my mama to take up sikhism and seriously considered it. We are all hindu brahmins but this is what our families think about sikhs. I have seen countless sikh-hindu weddings. I have people who lived through delhi of 84, come with me to a temple and be more respectful to hindu gods than I have ever been. This is how good it is and has been. There was a period when it wasnt, a sikh colleague of my Dad came to drop my father and we had just returned from Mandir, he respectfully said " I cant take prasad, sorry". This from a religion which still has ram in prayers and people who still go to Vaishno devi. My dada lived in Himachal and we used to visit them every year or 2, from 84 we actually used to be scared. We took bus instead of traveling in a car, we would time our trip so that we could be out of Punjab by sunset. It was terrible and yes I saw policewalay drag a sikh guy out of the field in punjab. He had a gun and was assumed terrorist, but why he became one, well I didnt know So 84/Bhindarwale created this divide which didnt exist before the mess and has slowly gone away after the mess was finally cleaned up. Now people to people relations are back to where they were 2 decades ago. I dont see any animosity, at least in India. Couple of months ago I was in Toronto and decided to visit a Gurudwara, it was a small one. A lot of people with pagdis, I was happy to be there as I used to love visiting Gurudwara in Melbourne but here it felt awkward. Then we went downstairs for the langar and I could see 10s of pictures of dead militants. They were everywehre, with blood covered bodies and guns next to them. I felt uncomfortable, havent we all suffered and moved on ? I guess not in Canada. After looking at the pictures, my wife was scared. She is also a punjabi but doesnt speak punjabi well, she was so scared that she started talking in broken punjabi to prove she was one of them and that made people stare at her and she was even more scared now. When we came out, she asked me why Melbourne Gurudwara is so different to the Canadian one, and I think its because the one in Melbourne is run by people who moved in late 90s and after 2000 while the one in Canada is from 80s and they are still hurt but its sad that they are passing on this pain to their kids. So this is my experience, I think Indians have moved on and its best for next generation of sikhs living overseas if they move on as well.

Very Good write-up Desi. Kudos :two_thumbs_up:

[akshayxyz]

I've lived in Chandigarh for 3 years and never met a Sikh who wants Khalistan' date=' but in the US I've met several. [b']My response to them has been you are living in the US - ask America to provide you with a separate country.

excellent rhetoric.

[Swing_n_Speed]

Hero of 1971 BD war. Hero of Operation Blue Star. Both these events are seminal in Indian history. Had either one of these gone wrong India would have been different today. Kudos to the man who led from the front on both. :hatsoff::hatsoff:

+1 :hatsoff::hatsoff:

[akshayxyz]

The khalistanis in kaneda are the relics from the past. They moved to kaneda when things were getting hot in punjab (KPS gill ka danda ghus raha tha)' date= ab vo naare lagate phirte hain. Someone should tell them bhai aapka time nikal gaya.

:haha:

[akshayxyz]

How long can the army sit there when there is an attack on the border? Moving troops from other parts of the country takes time. What is those 1000+ militants armed with state of the art weapons went on a rampage along with an attack on Punjab by Pakistan? Low probability, yeah but when it comes to such decisions you cannot be calculating exact probabilities. .

here is the first thing I thought of, while reading this.. [ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UDmm5EWvcaI]Pankh Hote Tu Ud Aati Re Lata Mangeshkar Film Sehra (1963) Music Ram Lal - YouTube[/ame]

[akshayxyz]

I think you're missing the point. Most Sikhs want justice' date=' give them justice and the support for Khalistan will stop. Prosecute Tytler, Kumar and KPS Gill for the human rights attrocities and then it will go away and also [b']amend Article 25 of the Indian constitution which states Sikhs are Hindus.

Not that I see anything wrong with changing few words to reflect facts. But, could you elaborate, in current situation does (and how) this particular article put Indian Sikhs under some disadvantage? As for the Kanedian Sikhs? - why should someone living in Canada be bothered about what is written in Indian Constitution? And why stop at that, they must verify constitutions of all the countries, starting with Pakistan. I have had quite a few very good Sikh friends ( some are still very close), but I never heard them mentioning such triviality.

[akshayxyz]

I was in KG when all this happened so I didnt know the reasons but what I saw was terrible. I saw a sikh guy's newly renovated shop being burnt down, I saw him crying. As I sat in a rickshaw going to downtown haridwar, I saw that in a lane of 10 hotels only was burnt down and of course a sikh owned that hotel. My Nani actually wanted my mama to take up sikhism and seriously considered it. We are all hindu brahmins but this is what our families think about sikhs. I have seen countless sikh-hindu weddings. I have people who lived through delhi of 84, come with me to a temple and be more respectful to hindu gods than I have ever been. This is how good it is and has been. There was a period when it wasnt, a sikh colleague of my Dad came to drop my father and we had just returned from Mandir, he respectfully said " I cant take prasad, sorry". This from a religion which still has ram in prayers and people who still go to Vaishno devi. My dada lived in Himachal and we used to visit them every year or 2, from 84 we actually used to be scared. We took bus instead of traveling in a car, we would time our trip so that we could be out of Punjab by sunset. It was terrible and yes I saw policewalay drag a sikh guy out of the field in punjab. He had a gun and was assumed terrorist, but why he became one, well I didnt know So 84/Bhindarwale created this divide which didnt exist before the mess and has slowly gone away after the mess was finally cleaned up. Now people to people relations are back to where they were 2 decades ago. I dont see any animosity, at least in India. Couple of months ago I was in Toronto and decided to visit a Gurudwara, it was a small one. A lot of people with pagdis, I was happy to be there as I used to love visiting Gurudwara in Melbourne but here it felt awkward. Then we went downstairs for the langar and I could see 10s of pictures of dead militants. They were everywehre, with blood covered bodies and guns next to them. I felt uncomfortable, havent we all suffered and moved on ? I guess not in Canada. After looking at the pictures, my wife was scared. She is also a punjabi but doesnt speak punjabi well, she was so scared that she started talking in broken punjabi to prove she was one of them and that made people stare at her and she was even more scared now. When we came out, she asked me why Melbourne Gurudwara is so different to the Canadian one, and I think its because the one in Melbourne is run by people who moved in late 90s and after 2000 while the one in Canada is from 80s and they are still hurt but its sad that they are passing on this pain to their kids. So this is my experience, I think Indians have moved on and its best for next generation of sikhs living overseas if they move on as well.

This. This is the reason. The older & bitter generation passing on animosity and not 'life'. Its exactly same as it is in padosi-mulq. If you are brought up thinking about revenge, that is the best you might make out of life, and in the process (perhaps) transfer the 'hatred' to the one you might be able to extract revenge from. and next generation will have to face that. and the cycle continues. It is extremely selfish of older people to pass on their lack-of-balls, or purely fate.. to younger gen...You lived your life, failed or succeeded, were unlucky or lucky..no point in punishing your kids. Propagating negative energy is going to cause destruction only, it will never lead to progressive/prosperous life.

[Desi Cartman]

This. This is the reason. The older & bitter generation have been passing on animosity and not 'life'. Its exactly same as it is in padosi-mulq. If you are brought up thinking about revenge, that is the best you might make out of life, and in the process (perhaps) transfer the 'hatred' to the one you might be able to extract revenge from. and next generation will have to face that. and the cycle continues. It is extremely selfish of older people to pass on their lack-of-balls, or purely fate.. to younger gen...You lived your life, failed or succeeded, were unlucky or lucky..no point in punishing your kids. Propagating negative energy is going to cause destruction only, it will never lead to progressive/prosperous life.

Its easier said than done, till the day my nani died she couldnt stop criticizing Muslims for what happened during partition. She was a jan sanghi (pretty much all hindu migrants were). We cant even imagine what those sikhs experienced to have the feeling that they do nor could I ever tell my Nani to move on. The people who suffer from it, never forget it but since I grew up in India I could see that things have changed and people are working together (mostly :desiman: )but people who migrate to other countries remember their birth place by their last experience.

[Silva]

I know alot of people who think goa would be better off if portugal were still in charge. they always say their wouldnt be this much corruption or filth ect. Im guessing this is how the khalistanis probably feel. But thankfully sikhs are rational to understand that it would be better to change india rather then pointless violence. Infact people in general dont rebel because it shows a sense of reckless suicidal instints that most people dont have. Thats why indians have been occupied for so long in our history.

[Silva]

I know alot of people who think goa would be better off if portugal were still in charge or if goa was independent. they always say their wouldnt be this much corruption or filth ect. Im guessing this is how the khalistanis probably feel. But thankfully sikhs are rational to understand that it would be better to change india rather then pointless violence. Infact people in general dont rebel because it shows a sense of reckless suicidal instints that most people dont have. Thats why indians have been occupied for so long in our history.