'Fast' bowlers turning extinct in India

[indiaregulator]

Dude first let me ask you this...before Finn,name one out and out fast bowler England have produced in the last 10 years.

Matthew Hoggard Steven Harmison Freddie Flintoff Stuart Broad Andy Caddick Then the fast medium pacers: Jimmy Anderson Tim Bresnan (Trundling for some strange reason at the moment) Chris Tremlett Graeme Onions Jones And the 90+ bowlers who are either young or are crap, but fast nonetheless. Stuart Meaker Ajmal Shazhad Sajid Mahmood Ryan Sidebottom Liam Plunkett The top two lists are all fast bowlers who are/were of international standard and can bowl at or sustain 90+ MPH. Whereas me move to India...here are the following 'fast bowlers' India have produced. Fast: Yadav Aaron - Who is always dead. Ishant Sharma - Who really falls under the "Fast but young/crap catergory" That's about it.

[maniac]

What Zak has lost pace since his comeback and most of the time he bowls around 80-84 mph. Flintoff didn't lose pace like Zak. Flintoff is considered RF and not RFM.

I should have termed it better as most of his career for Zak not taking last 1-2 years into consideration. As far as Flintoff goes Cricinfo may have listed him as RF but I wouldn't put Flintoff in the same category as Lee,Tait,Akthar,Bond. Anyways that's my opinion

[Trichromatic]

Hoggard and Broad are not fast bowlers. Hoggard was more line-length fast medium bowler and not a fast bowler. Keeper had to stand up to the stumps during first test for Broad. Calling him fast is laughable.

[Trichromatic]

I should have termed it better as most of his career for Zak not taking last 1-2 years into consideration. As far as Flintoff goes Cricinfo may have listed him as RF but I wouldn't put Flintoff in the same category as Lee,Tait,Akthar,Bond. Anyways that's my opinion

Just 1-2? Zak has been slower since 2006-07. No need to put Flintoff in that category. They were express pace bowlers and not just fast bowlers. There is a category between Lee and Zak - where Ryan Harris, Cummins, Pattison etc belong.

[indiaregulator]

I do understand you're point regarding the pace turn into control thing. But what I don't get is that they seem to have lost pace but not exactly gained control! Classic examples: Irfan Pathan Nehra RP Singh to name a few.

Hoggard and Broad are not fast bowlers. Hoggard was more line-length fast medium bowler and not a fast bowler. Keeper had to stand up to the stumps during first test for Broad. Calling him fast is laughable.

That's because there is something wrong with him at the moment, not because he's actually a trundler. He was clocking constant 90+ vs India and Sri Lanka in England and vs the West Indies. Bowled in the 80-85 range in the UAE and bowled trundling crap vs Saffers and in India. But i think you knew that anyway, but were looking for an excuse for a cheap dig.

[panther]

Matthew Hoggard Steven Harmison Freddie Flintoff Stuart Broad Andy Caddick Then the fast medium pacers: Jimmy Anderson Tim Bresnan (Trundling for some strange reason at the moment) Chris Tremlett Graeme Onions Jones And the 90+ bowlers who are either young or are crap, but fast nonetheless. Stuart Meaker Ajmal Shazhad Sajid Mahmood Ryan Sidebottom Liam Plunkett The top two lists are all fast bowlers who are/were of international standard and can bowl at or sustain 90+ MPH. Whereas me move to India...here are the following 'fast bowlers' India have produced. Fast: Yadav Aaron - Who is always dead. Ishant Sharma - Who really falls under the "Fast but young/crap catergory" That's about it.

not 1 genuine fast bowler there except finn lol, harmison and flintoff are fast-medium.

[indiaregulator]

As far as Flintoff goes Cricinfo may have listed him as RF but I wouldn't put Flintoff in the same category as Lee,Tait,Akthar,Bond.

Then fast bowlers simply do not exist in the world nowadays. Finn, Yadav, Sharma, Meaker, Pattinson and Cummins are probably the 6 fastest bowlers in the world right now and none of them touch the pace of those 4 in consistency.

not 1 genuine fast bowler there except finn lol, harmison and flintoff are fast-medium.

Finn bowls at an average similar to Harmison and Flintoff. Touching the 90's, low 90's effort ball. Never consistently clocking 90+. That, to me is fast. Hell, who earth is fast then. Dale Steyn averages 135-140 in test cricket, Yadav and Sharma bowl 150 average one minute, 135 average the next. You tell me one bowler who averages 150 in test cricket currently playing and I'll conceede that England don't have fast bowlers.

[Trichromatic]

That's because there is something wrong with him at the moment, not because he's actually a trundler. He was clocking constant 90+ vs India and Sri Lanka in England and vs the West Indies. Bowled in the 80-85 range in the UAE and bowled trundling crap vs Saffers and in India. But i think you knew that anyway, but were looking for an excuse for a cheap dig.

How is that cheap dig? He doesn't has heart to bowl everywhere. He has played over 40 tests and was quick for just few months or just a year. That doesn't mean he is a fast bowler. Name one fast bowler who trundled for whole year at his peak.

[maniac]

Matthew Hoggard Steven Harmison Freddie Flintoff Stuart Broad Andy Caddick Then the fast medium pacers: Jimmy Anderson Tim Bresnan (Trundling for some strange reason at the moment) Chris Tremlett Graeme Onions Jones And the 90+ bowlers who are either young or are crap, but fast nonetheless. Stuart Meaker Ajmal Shazhad Sajid Mahmood Ryan Sidebottom Liam Plunkett The top two lists are all fast bowlers who are/were of international standard and can bowl at or sustain 90+ MPH. Whereas me move to India...here are the following 'fast bowlers' India have produced. Fast: Yadav Aaron - Who is always dead. Ishant Sharma - Who really falls under the "Fast but young/crap catergory" That's about it.

You still don't get my point do you...I am saying that Indian bowlers dont go all out because they have to further their careers,not due to lack of ability. Munaf Patel who was not even a regular member for most of his career has palyed 70 ODI's in 5 years and Sidebottom who btw for some odd reason you seem to think is a 90+ bowler played 20 odd ODI's in 9 years of his debut. Ashish Nehra who burst to the scene as a quick bowler-I am sure as a English fan you have great memories of him, played 120 ODI matches and he was not consistently in the starting line up for most of his career. where as one of England's best players Flintoff played a total of 140 ODI's. As I said it is not the ability,it is to lengthen your professional career,so what's wrong with that?

[Trichromatic]

As I said it is not the ability,it is to lengthen your professional career,so what's wrong with that?

Poor performance. They end up as bowlers with limited skills and low pace.

[indiaregulator]

As I said it is not the ability,it is to lengthen your professional career,so what's wrong with that?

Nothing, but for some obscure reason when their pace drops so does their actually bowling effectivity and ability. And okay, I'm basing Sidebottom on some pointless T20 crap, maybe it's not representative.

[indiaregulator]

How is that cheap dig? He doesn't has heart to bowl everywhere. He has played over 40 tests and was quick for just few months or just a year. That doesn't mean he is a fast bowler. Name one fast bowler who trundled for whole year at his peak.

But he hasnt. Just back in April he was averaging in the high 80's against the West Indies... It's only since vs the Saffer's that his pace dropped considerably. It's been what, less than 6 months? And IIRC, Dale Steyn had been trundling for a while.

[maniac]

Poor performance. They end up as bowlers with limited skills and low pace.

Yes...but with consistent injuries and poor management,would they rather miss out playing a full ODI series and IPL just to bowl fast and breakdown in some test match... I brought ODI series here because IPL is relatively new but even prior to that the money was in all those Coco-cola, Pepsi cups etc. As a fan you and I might want them to perform at a test level,but say if uou were a professional bowler most of your career on un-responsive pitches,would you rather cut down on risks to enhance your professional career?(unless you are a special talent)

[Trichromatic]

But he hasnt. Just back in April he was averaging in the high 80's against the West Indies... It's only since vs the Saffer's that his pace dropped considerably. It's been what, less than 6 months? And IIRC, Dale Steyn had been trundling for a while.

Once again you missed the point. He wasn't a fast bowler to start with. He bowled quick for few series during last 18 months or so at his best and now he is back to lower pace. Did you even see Steyn's bowling in this test match? He was easily bowling over 140 mark consistently. He has bowled fast for almost whole career.

[indiaregulator]

Once again you missed the point. He wasn't a fast bowler to start with. He bowled quick for few series and now he is back to lower pace. Did you even see Steyn's bowling in this test match? He was easily bowling over 140 mark consistently.

Even in his 'enforcer' days he was bowling much fastest than what he is currently doing. And yes, I know he was. But there was a period of time where he wasn't bowling very well at all and he was trundling somewhat. I think it coincided with the emergence of Phillander.

[Tiger80]

Aakash Chopra missed a good chance here I think. This could have made for a stellar article but somehow he went the wrong direction, me thinks. His example on Zaheer Khan is fantastic. After the WC 2011 success where Zaheer Khan performed tremendously what really did he gain?? If you are in an average Indian town today, say New Delhi, I bet you will see more posters of a Suresh Raina than a Zaheer Khan. The former is a LOI specialist, the latter one of the greatest fast bowlers we produced. If Indian fans, advertising media, sports channels keep recommending Raina and Jadeja and Rohit Sharma over a Zaheer Khan, no wonder we get royally screwed by every country. During Durga Puja time in Gurgaon this year I was shocked to see seperate sections in local newspaper advertising "exclusive" apartments for uber rich. One of the selling point was cricket academy by Suresh Raina. I am not sure what shocked me more, exclusive apartments for rich in India (how is that not discrimination?) OR the fact that Raina can open a cricket academy :giggle:

The example is not a good one.Zaheer is a "doobta hua suraj" you will see him in commentry box in 2 years .Why will company want to invest in player who is doubtful to play because of fitness.On the other hand Raina is 26 and a very good T20 player.he could become T20 Indian captain in future ,so obviously Raina is much better investment than Zaheer BTW Brett lee became Ambassador of Timex India in 2003 . VffeLxpXDgg

[Tiger80]

I decided it was time to use the IPL card, for it was a sure shot way to lure this boy to change his mind. ŵhereÃÔ the IPL and we donÃÕ have many Indian fast bowlers. We all know that in T20 cricket bowlers are worth their weight in gold. Anyone who can bowl four economical overs regularly is worth a lot more than the ones who can score at a strike-rate of 150.This was bound to work, I thought secretly. Alas! Ťheck your figures? he said with a smirk. Ŧven the best bowlers in the IPL, the likes of Lasith Malinga and Dale Steyn are worth no more than a million, but even some second rate batsmen are taking home close to 2 million. This one had just backfired badly!

Compare Foreign players with foreigners Mahela got 1.5 million while Steyn got 1.2 million , not much difference.Also in 2011 IPL Gautam Gambhir got 2.4 million While AB de villiars got 1.1 million .Now which fool will rate Gautam Gambhir as better batsman than ABD in T20

[Lurker]

The example is not a good one.Zaheer is a "doobta hua suraj" you will see him in commentry box in 2 years .Why will company want to invest in player who is doubtful to play because of fitness.On the other hand Raina is 26 and a very good T20 player.he could become T20 Indian captain in future ,so obviously Raina is much better investment than Zaheer

I don't quite see Zaheer Khan in commentary box. And yes Zaheer Khan would retire in a couple of years but he has been India's leading bowler for 4-5 years now. It is not exactly that he was making half as much money as a Dhoni, a Yuvraj let alone SRT, when Zaheer was at his peak. This was no different earlier when someone like Srinath hardly made as much money as Azhar, VVS or Ganguly. Same with Kumble, although obviously Kumble was a spinner. We are a batsman obsessed country, simple as that.

BTW Brett lee became Ambassador of Timex India in 2003 .

Arre wo to Australian hai bhai.

[Tiger80]

I don't quite see Zaheer Khan in commentary box. And yes Zaheer Khan would retire in a couple of years but he has been India's leading bowler for 4-5 years now. It is not exactly that he was making half as much money as a Dhoni, a Yuvraj let alone SRT, when Zaheer was at his peak. This was no different earlier when someone like Srinath hardly made as much money as Azhar, VVS or Ganguly. Same with Kumble, although obviously Kumble was a spinner. We are a batsman obsessed country, simple as that. Arre wo to Australian hai bhai.

Yes we are, but one of the main reason is we produced Batsmen in wholesale While rarely we produced pacers.Could you remind me any last important match when Indian bowlers while defending small totals demolished strong opposition batting in an important match ? Also Bhajji got much ads than Kumble while the later was much better bowler.May Being an agggressive Punjabi worked more in favour of Harbhajan and he was perfect to target rich Punjabi's of North India. Ad world is something who will always give more importance to showman rather than good players .Also community factor will also play role their .

Arre wo to Australian hai bhai

To kya? He was one of very few Foreign players who got advertisements in India.Do you want to say that we Indian love fast bowlers which are not Indians?

[Lurker]

Yes we are, but one of the main reason is we produced Batsmen in wholesale While rarely we produced pacers.Could you remind me any last important match when Indian bowlers while defending small totals demolished strong opposition batting in an important match?

It becomes chicken-egg situation now. You want fast bowlers to prop up on their own in this country which keeps supporting Rainas of this world? Become world beater on their own and then see no support? Seriously how does that work? By the way how about the England series that we won overseas thanks to Zaheer and RP. Once they were back did they start making as much money as the batsmen??

Also Bhajji got much ads than Kumble while the later was much better bowler.May Being an agggressive Punjabi worked more in favour of Harbhajan and he was perfect to target rich Punjabi's of North India.

In this day and age people still buy that whole North-Indian-Punjabi aggression?? :beee::beee:

To kya? He was one of very few Foreign players who got advertisements in India.Do you want to say that we Indian love fast bowlers which are not Indians?

The question is rather simple boss. DO we support our fast bowlers. I think not. By the way we also have had ads from Steve Waugh, KP etc. There could always be examples to show the opposite argument?