speed and performance of indian pacers in ipl

[Old guy]

Hit the deck bowlers comparatively get more bounce then a similar bowler as far as pace n height' date=' who skids or swings the ball, Shami for example although he is on the smaller side due to his action n excellent wrist he gets better lift then similar bowlers, most AUSTRALIAN bowlers are hit the deck as their conditions favor that kinda bowling, Staarc is tall and quick but he doesn't hit the deck hard, Pattinson hits the deck harder.[/quote'] Yes and guess what? Shami bowls quick ..now a days easily hits 145 k That's what I was talking about that in order to hit deck hard from same height u need more pace Pattison is another guy like shami :winky:

[Malcolm Merlyn]

All trundlers.

[Old guy]

Starc actually hits the deck hard just does not controls movement And he swings ball too early for my liking

[rkt.india]

Yes exactly So you need to bowl quicker... My entire argument here is philander at his pace of 130 k does not really hit deck hard like people here are misinformed about You either bowl quicker to hit deck hard or get tall like McGrath and even he was not really full length bowler

No, you need to understand, pace to hit the deck for every bowler is different. Philander bowls up to to 136-137 and that is quick for him, might not be for others and he can hit the deck at that pace because of strong shoulders. Philander doesnt have perfect seam like BK. He has wobbly seam and doesnt swing the ball rather seam the ball by hitting the deck.

[Old guy]

No' date=' you need to understand, pace to hit the deck for every bowler is different. Philander bowls up to to 136-137 and that is quick for him, might not be for others and he can hit the deck at that pace because of strong shoulders. Philander doesnt have perfect seam like BK. He has wobbly seam and doesnt swing the ball rather seam the ball by hitting the deck.[/quote'] Not really seen him hit the deck tbh he just seams the ball and yes sometimes tracks have so much in it that ball flies but to be objective I saw his bowling in UAE,Australia and England and in all places all he did was seam the ball And his seam position works for him to move ball and that is important Bhuvan normally moves ball just in air and not track that's why I rate philander much higher but he is not really your hit the deck bowler who extracts life from dead tracks Also for bowlers it's different I totally agree and it's height which makes the difference shoulders just help you bowl the ball but speed and length is different because every one has different height of bowling a ball and I won't even call philander hit the deck kind of bowler they are normally taller bowlers who instead of bowling loopy swing bowling bowl short of length or length and extract life like morkel or broad

[rkt.india]

Saffers and Aussie pacers are on average more quicker than our bowler so they can get more,life of full ball Also Mohit sharma is no way in hell hit the deck bowler or not good one he seams the ball you are confusing seam bowlers and hit the deck bowlers Mohit is closer to philander because he moves ball of seam like philander that has nothing to do with hitting the deck that's more about landing bowl on seam with good action and moving ball of pitch rather than air Hitting the deck is bowling ball quick and by tall pacer and extracting life out of track like morkel does There is a reason every hit the deck bowler is tall and quick when you are short you become skiddy like umesh and best bowler in world steyn Just look at morkel and he is ur hit the deck bowler Steyn is swing bowler who skids the ball even when bowling bouncer and philander is seam bowler who occasionally swings the ball let's not confuse between them Look at English side broad and the left when he was quick hit the deck while Anderson is swing bowler Broad is one guy who did well in Australia because he had pace and hit deck while the let who was last time 140 k bowler and destroyed Aussies sucked this time with 140 k bowling and that guy is huge ! So you need pace to hit the deck I can give you more examples if you want to but top of my head term let is best example which explains what I am saying What simple thing you don't get is to hit the deck harde with ball which has Same mass you need more speed it's simple Energy transfers in form of speed they way you do it is my ch aging wrist position or strong shoulders but the end result is not dispute able that you need more pace to hit the deck harder If I throw bowl at 20 km per hour and hit you it will hurt in same way as any 20 km ph bowl it does not matter if I used shoulder to throw it or just my fingers Also if you bowl u will know to use ur shoulder will mean you are putting more behind ball and it is delivered much more quickly ...when I was fit and I. Form I was able to bowl like that but with less control but speed increased so much ..

Mohit is a hit the deck bowler. Seam bowlers naturally means hit the deck bowlers who dont release or float the ball.

[Old guy]

Mohit is a hit the deck bowler. Seam bowlers naturally means hit the deck bowlers who dont release or float the ball.

Difference is he is not hitting the deck hard like you guys claimed I never said he is not that type of bowler but I am not gonna agree that guy with 130 k hits the deck hard that depends on speed Mohit will never get as much life as morkel or broad cos of less height and less pace

[rkt.india]

Difference is he is not hitting the deck hard like you guys claimed I never said he is not that type of bowler but I am not gonna agree that guy with 130 k hits the deck hard that depends on speed Mohit will never get as much life as morkel or broad cos of less height and less pace

He does but he has limitations as he is not tall enough but he still hits the deck harder than most Indian bowlers who release the ball. Hit the seam means hit the deck. If you hit the deck only then you can hit the seam and get movement, otherwise, you will have to float it to get swing. BK is doing both these days. When he tries to swing he bowls slower and releases the ball around 130 but when he hits the deck, his pace goes up to 135-136.

[Old guy]

He does but he has limitations as he is not tall enough but he still hits the deck harder than most Indian bowlers who release the ball. Hit the seam means hit the deck. If you hit the deck only then you can hit the seam and get movement' date=' otherwise, you will have to float it to get swing. BK is doing both these days. When he tries to swing he bowls slower and releases the ball around 130 but when he hits the deck, his pace goes up to 135-136.[/quote'] for swing you need ball in air for hitting so called deck you need to shorter your length and hitting seam is different from hitting deck hard obviously every bowler lands the ball but only tall ones or very quick ones have pace to hit deck hard at full length and that was the entire discussion

[rkt.india]

for swing you need ball in air for hitting so called deck you need to shorter your length and hitting seam is different from hitting deck hard obviously every bowler lands the ball but only tall ones or very quick ones have pace to hit deck hard at full length and that was the entire discussion

no, hitting the seam is called hitting the deck, so that it can deviate off the seam and behave differently. Otherwise, what's the use of hitting the deck hard and you do not always need to bowl short to hit the deck hard. Even being full, you can hit the ball and not just float. Philander does that and that is where he is different from Indian swing bowlers. His fuller deliveries are not loopy. The speed might not tell it because pace shown on TV is speed, not velocity.

[Old guy]

no' date=' hitting the seam is called hitting the deck, so that it can deviate off the seam and behave differently. Otherwise, what's the use of hitting the deck hard and you do not always need to bowl short to hit the deck hard. Even being full, you can hit the ball and not just float. Philander does that and that is where he is different from Indian swing bowlers. His fuller deliveries are not loopy. The speed might not tell it because pace shown on TV is speed, not velocity.[/quote'] Then we have totally different definition of of hitting deck Even James Anderson hits seam and moves ball and I will never ever consider him hit the deck bowler So does Zaheer khan ah well this is discussion about naming tbh We can agree on one thing that philander is different cos of seam movement

[rkt.india]

Then we have totally different definition of of hitting deck Even James Anderson hits seam and moves ball and I will never ever consider him hit the deck bowler So does Zaheer khan ah well this is discussion about naming tbh We can agree on one thing that philander is different cos of seam movement

If one bowler is a swing bowler, it does not he cannot hit the deck. When ball swings, he tries to swing it when not, hit the deck, but Anderson predominantly a swing bowler. Zaheer is not an out and out swing bowler too. Look at Steyn when he tries to swing in the air he float the balls and sometimes, he hits the deck hard. A bowler can do both if he has the ability. Steyn is one of those guys.

[Old guy]

If one bowler is a swing bowler' date=' it does not he cannot hit the deck. When ball swings, he tries to swing it when not, hit the deck, but Anderson predominantly a swing bowler. Zaheer is not an out and out swing bowler too. Look at Steyn when he tries to swing in the air he float the balls and sometimes, he hits the deck hard. A bowler can do both if he has the ability. Steyn is one of those guys.[/quote'] i know that but our definitions of these things are different according to my criteria only certain bowlers qualify according to yours almost everyone does so i will stick to mine about bhuvi that is one thing which made me go :WTF: and surprised me i thought he will be another pathan but he seamed the ball of track with nip but its not consistent skill of his it happens without control or consistency this is reason i want him to be persisted with even with few failures because he has some real skill and is constantly upping his pace or atleast not losing it and now has developed decent death bowling nothing special but he is not liability anymore but i will never be able to call him or philander or any bowler of this type hit the deck swing,seam bowlers are what they really are to me hitting seam and moving is one skill every bowler should have but we cannot classify every bowler as that type

[express bowling]

Saffers and Aussie pacers are on average more quicker than our bowler so they can get more,life of full ball Also Mohit sharma is no way in hell hit the deck bowler or not good one he seams the ball you are confusing seam bowlers and hit the deck bowlers Mohit is closer to philander because he moves ball of seam like philander that has nothing to do with hitting the deck that's more about landing bowl on seam with good action and moving ball of pitch rather than air Hitting the deck is bowling ball quick and by tall pacer and extracting life out of track like morkel does There is a reason every hit the deck bowler is tall and quick when you are short you become skiddy like umesh and best bowler in world steyn Just look at morkel and he is ur hit the deck bowler Steyn is swing bowler who skids the ball even when bowling bouncer and philander is seam bowler who occasionally swings the ball let's not confuse between them Look at English side broad and the left when he was quick hit the deck while Anderson is swing bowler Broad is one guy who did well in Australia because he had pace and hit deck while the let who was last time 140 k bowler and destroyed Aussies sucked this time with 140 k bowling and that guy is huge ! So you need pace to hit the deck I can give you more examples if you want to but top of my head term let is best example which explains what I am saying ..

A taller , quicker bowler ( like Morkel, Broad ) , with the intent to hit the deck hard will always be a better deck hitting bowler if he has control. I don'y think there is any dispute on this issue. Please don't raise this point again. You are going around in circles and not reading my posts. I raised the point about shorter medium pacers from SAF, Australia etc. like Philander, having the intent, practice and technique to bowl hit the deck deliveries with SOME balls, not all. Whereas Indian shorter medium pacers like Sandeep, etc. tend to float the ball with most deliveries. Their hit the deck balls will never be as effective pace or bounce-wise as Morkel. For the last time.. that is not the issue being discussed.

[Old guy]

A taller , quicker bowler ( like Morkel, Broad ) , with the intent to hit the deck hard will always be a better deck hitting bowler if he has control. I don'y think there is any dispute on this issue. Please don't raise this point again. You are going around in circles and not reading my posts. I raised the point about shorter medium pacers from SAF, Australia etc. like Philander, having the intent, practice and technique to bowl hit the deck deliveries with SOME balls, not all. Whereas Indian shorter medium pacers like Sandeep, etc. tend to float the ball with most deliveries. Their hit the deck balls will never be as effective pace or bounce-wise as Morkel. For the last time.. that is not the issue being discussed.

their shorter bowlers have much better control and are much more skillful bhuvi,sandeep and praveen were kind of exceptions our normal shorter bowlers used to be like unadkat,irfan , vinay sorry that you feel i am not reading but you did not understand what i said and there is nothing to dispute i still maintain in order to hit deck hard you either need pace or need to be very tall so that your angle is steeper and nothing changed there just your definition hit the deck =hitting the seam which is stupid and i still have not gotten one name who hits the deck like braid,morkel etc and you all agree shorter bowlers cannot or slower bowlers cannot so itsn ot even dispute obviousy every guy hits the pitch thats how cricket is played but entire discussion was baout hitting the track hard which you all agreed that quicker bowlers do it better and so do taller ones and about indian slow bowlers vs their slow bowlers lets not even get started we cannot measure how hard some one hits the deck but i can see philander is more accurate than any indian bowler has more control over movement than any indian bowler and most importantly has track which help him and intent to pick wickets always . his main skill is consistency and seam movement now you can call that seam movement hitting the deck but i am not gonna agree with that but yes it puts him in different class than sandeep who actually has potential to be like that but is obviously no where close to that

[rkt.india]

i know that but our definitions of these things are different according to my criteria only certain bowlers qualify according to yours almost everyone does so i will stick to mine about bhuvi that is one thing which made me go :WTF: and surprised me i thought he will be another pathan but he seamed the ball of track with nip but its not consistent skill of his it happens without control or consistency this is reason i want him to be persisted with even with few failures because he has some real skill and is constantly upping his pace or atleast not losing it and now has developed decent death bowling nothing special but he is not liability anymore but i will never be able to call him or philander or any bowler of this type hit the deck swing,seam bowlers are what they really are to me hitting seam and moving is one skill every bowler should have but we cannot classify every bowler as that type

Because some are good at this and some are not. The reason some who are good are called hit deck the bowler but some who are not are not. Zaheer initially was not a swing bowler, but with time he developed and learnt to swing which is important for left armers. Look at Ryan Harris. He is barely tall, as tall as Mohit Sharma, around 5'10" but he is a hit the deck bowler. Same is Peter Siddle, not really tall too. Hilfy taller than both but is a swing bowler. Starc taller than Johnson many bowlers but is primarily a swing bowler while Johnson hits the deck. Starc's full 145K delivery looks visibly slower than Aaron or Johnson's 145K because he put its while they bowl it through.

[express bowling]

Saffers and Aussie pacers are on average more quicker than our bowler so they can get more,life of full ball Also Mohit sharma is no way in hell hit the deck bowler or not good one he seams the ball you are confusing seam bowlers and hit the deck bowlers Mohit is closer to philander because he moves ball of seam like philander that has nothing to do with hitting the deck that's more about landing bowl on seam with good action and moving ball of pitch rather than air Hitting the deck is bowling ball quick and by tall pacer and extracting life out of track like morkel does There is a reason every hit the deck bowler is tall and quick when you are short you become skiddy like umesh and best bowler in world steyn Just look at morkel and he is ur hit the deck bowler Steyn is swing bowler who skids the ball even when bowling bouncer and philander is seam bowler who occasionally swings the ball let's not confuse between them Look at English side broad and the left when he was quick hit the deck while Anderson is swing bowler Broad is one guy who did well in Australia because he had pace and hit deck while the let who was last time 140 k bowler and destroyed Aussies sucked this time with 140 k bowling and that guy is huge ! So you need pace to hit the deck I can give you more examples if you want to but top of my head term let is best example which explains what I am saying ..

A taller , quicker bowler ( like Morkel, Broad ) , with the intent to hit the deck hard will always be a better deck hitting bowler if he has control. I don'y think there is any dispute on this issue. Please don't raise this point again. You are going around in circles and not reading my posts. I raised the point about shorter medium pacers from SAF, Australia etc. like Philander, having the intent, practice and technique to bowl hit the deck deliveries with SOME balls, not all. Whereas Indian shorter medium pacers like Sandeep, etc. tend to float the ball with most deliveries. Their hit the deck balls will never be as effective pace or bounce-wise as Morkel. For the last time.. that is not the issue being discussed. The point of discussion was a comparison of different bowling styles of shorter medium pacers.

[Old guy]

Because some are good at this and some are not. The reason some who are good are called hit deck the bowler but some who are not are not. Zaheer initially was not a swing bowler' date=' but with time he developed and learnt to swing which is important for left armers.[/quote'] obviously every guy hits deck but how come only quick and tall guys are good at it ? this makes sense ?

[Old guy]

A taller , quicker bowler ( like Morkel, Broad ) , with the intent to hit the deck hard will always be a better deck hitting bowler if he has control. I don'y think there is any dispute on this issue. Please don't raise this point again. You are going around in circles and not reading my posts. I raised the point about shorter medium pacers from SAF, Australia etc. like Philander, having the intent, practice and technique to bowl hit the deck deliveries with SOME balls, not all. Whereas Indian shorter medium pacers like Sandeep, etc. tend to float the ball with most deliveries. Their hit the deck balls will never be as effective pace or bounce-wise as Morkel. For the last time.. that is not the issue being discussed. The point of discussion was a comparison of different bowling styles of shorter medium pacers.

dudes....what you are calling hitting the deck is simple seam bowling philander does not hits the deck ... asif did and i loved his bowling but he was tall thats my criteria and i am not gonna change it because every bowl will hit the pitch and bounce and unless it hits it hard i am not gonna call bowler hit the deck bowler otherwise every bowler on this planet including you and me are hit the deck bowlers but poor ones :winky:

[rkt.india]

obviously every guy hits deck but how come only quick and tall guys are good at it ? this makes sense ?

Look at Ryan Harris. He is barely tall, as tall as Mohit Sharma, around 5'10" but he is a hit the deck bowler. Same is Peter Siddle, not really tall too. Hilfy taller than both but is a swing bowler. Starc taller than Johnson many bowlers but is primarily a swing bowler while Johnson hits the deck. Starc's full 145K delivery looks visibly slower than Aaron or Johnson's 145K because he put its while they bowl it through. Regarding seam, hitting the seam is prerequisite for any fast bowler, but the difference is how they hit the seam. Swing bowlers also have upright seam which what enables them to get swing but because they release the ball, seam does not hit the pitch hard, while hit deck the bowlers don not float, they try to get maximum out of the pitch whether it lands on good length or short of length by pelting on the pitch.