Javagal Srinath vs Zaheer Khan

[Muloghonto]

Srinath in tests, Zaheer in ODIs.

 

From 95-2001, Srinath has the following overall stats : 42 tests, 175 wickets @ 27.58, 8-86, 10x5wkts, 1x10 wickets

He only had two blemishes in his record: in Australia and in England. Granted, it was the 90s and bowling fast back then was easier, but surprisingly, Srinath has 93 wickets from 24 matches at home with 24.47 average while away he has 82 from 18 at 31.12

 

So Srinath for me, for tests because he had a peroid where he outperformed Zaheer consistently

 

[kira]

How is Zaheer ahead of srinath in odi poll?

 

315 wickets @28 vs 286 wickets @29

During his playing career from 1991 to 2003, Srinath was the 4th highest wicket taker in the world and 15th bowler by average among bowlers who have taken more than 150 wickets

 

Zaheer during his playing career from 2000 to 2012 was also the 4th highest wicket taker in the world but he was 20th bowler by average among bowlers who have taken more than 150 wickets.

 

Srinath wins this easily, people voting for zaheer have not watched Srinath live.

 

[Muloghonto]

^
Because it was a lot easier to take wickets in ODIs in the 90s than in the 2000s. Back then, 250-275 was a defendable score more often than not. By the time Khan is a veteran, 300 is not defendable....

 

[kira]

11 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

^
Because it was a lot easier to take wickets in ODIs in the 90s than in the 2000s. Back then, 250-275 was a defendable score more often than not. By the time Khan is a veteran, 300 is not defendable....

 

That's why I compared both with their contemporaries , srinath was 15th best by average, zaheer was 20th best, that excuse doesn't work

[Muloghonto]

13 minutes ago, kira said:

That's why I compared both with their contemporaries , srinath was 15th best by average, zaheer was 20th best, that excuse doesn't work

The big diff is their economy rates. When Zaheer operated, only McGrath and Pollock had an ER lower than 4 rpo. Zaheer has 4.95 overall. When Srinath operated, there was Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Pollock, Donald, Akram all of whom had less than 4 rpo. So Srinath, comparatively, comes off worse IMO.

Srinath also didn't reverse the ball, which means in the death overs, he was a liability, not an asset like Zaheer.

 

[Sidhoni]

43 minutes ago, kira said:

How is Zaheer ahead of srinath in odi poll?

 

315 wickets @28 vs 286 wickets @29

During his playing career from 1991 to 2003, Srinath was the 4th highest wicket taker in the world and 15th bowler by average among bowlers who have taken more than 150 wickets

 

Zaheer during his playing career from 2000 to 2012 was also the 4th highest wicket taker in the world but he was 20th bowler by average among bowlers who have taken more than 150 wickets.

 

Srinath wins this easily, people voting for zaheer have not watched Srinath live.

 

Zaheer has won us a WC with the ball

[kira]

9 minutes ago, Sidhoni said:

Zaheer has won us a WC with the ball

Lol So? Lara never won a world cup, what kind of stupid logic is this?

[kira]

13 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The big diff is their economy rates. When Zaheer operated, only McGrath and Pollock had an ER lower than 4 rpo. Zaheer has 4.95 overall. When Srinath operated, there was Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Pollock, Donald, Akram all of whom had less than 4 rpo. So Srinath, comparatively, comes off worse IMO.

Srinath also didn't reverse the ball, which means in the death overs, he was a liability, not an asset like Zaheer.

 

lol that's the most moronic statement I've ever heard, reverse the ball? Seriously? Whether you reverse or ball gun barrel straight, in the end the result matters, and Srinath produced better results than zaheer

[kira]

17 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

The big diff is their economy rates. When Zaheer operated, only McGrath and Pollock had an ER lower than 4 rpo. Zaheer has 4.95 overall. When Srinath operated, there was Ambrose, Walsh, Bishop, Pollock, Donald, Akram all of whom had less than 4 rpo. So Srinath, comparatively, comes off worse IMO.

Srinath also didn't reverse the ball, which means in the death overs, he was a liability, not an asset like Zaheer.

 

During his career Srinath was the 15th best bowler by economy rate whereas zaheer was the 24th best bowler by economy rate among his contemporaries, pwnd again 

[Muloghonto]

15 minutes ago, kira said:

lol that's the most moronic statement I've ever heard, reverse the ball? Seriously? Whether you reverse or ball gun barrel straight, in the end the result matters, and Srinath produced better results than zaheer

Not in ODIs, he didn't. And reversing the ball is pretty much the one ace that pace bowlers hold in death overs. I watched cricket in the 90s. Too many times, Srinath was one of the liabilities in the death overs, going at 6+ RPO in the closing stages. 

 

And Srinath had a better economy rate than zaheer when compared to pacers only ? That, i find hard to believe.

 

[kira]

4 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

Not in ODIs, he didn't. And reversing the ball is pretty much the one ace that pace bowlers hold in death overs. I watched cricket in the 90s. Too many times, Srinath was one of the liabilities in the death overs, going at 6+ RPO in the closing stages. 

 

And Srinath had a better economy rate than zaheer when compared to pacers only ? That, i find hard to believe.

 

Whether you find it hard to believe or not, the facts won't change. Srinath was the 10th best bowler by economy rate when comparing only pace bowlers of his era whereas zaheer was the 16th best bowler by economy rate when compared with other pacers of his era

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;qualmin1=150;qualval1=wickets;spanmax1=1+jan+2013;spanmin1=1+jan+2000;spanval1=span;template=results;type=bowling

 

 

http://stats.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?bowling_pacespin=1;class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=economy_rate;qualmin1=150;qualval1=wickets;spanmax2=1+jan+2004;spanmin2=1+jan+1991;spanval2=span;template=results;type=bowling

[kira]

To further add to my previous point, Srinath was 10th out of 18 pace bowlers of his era by economy, so he was better than almost 50% of the pace bowlers of his era when it came to economy where was zaheer was 16th out of 23 pace bowlers in his era, so he was better than only 30% of the pace bowlers of his era by economy.

 

 

[CG]

Stats can never be used comparing bowlers of diff eras.Zaheer Khan was a better limited over bowler as he had a good Yorker at death and Used reverse swing well.Srinath was overall a better test bowler as Zak wasted his best years being unfit.

[kira]

Just now, CG said:

Stats can never be used comparing bowlers of diff eras.Zaheer Khan was a better limited over bowler as he had a good Yorker at death and Used reverse swing well.Srinath was overall a better test bowler as Zak wasted his best years being unfit.

When you can't back your argument with stats, you start using intangibles to big up your favorite. Stats can be misleading at times by when used properly, they reveal a greater truth than the distorted perceptions you have in your mind. Srinath was better ODI bowler than Zaheer, Zaheer may have been a better death bowler than Srinath because of his yorkers and reverse swing but overall Srinath beats Zaheer in both formats

[Muloghonto]

^

Notice differential between top 10 and Srinath vs top 10 and Zaheer. Srinath was a LOT more expensive than most top level bowlers of the 90s than Zaheer was of the 2000s.

I dropped the criteria to 50 wickets. because not a whole lot of English or NZ bowlers took more than a 100 wickets during that period, due to playing less.

And the stats are revealing- only 8 bowlers have an ER 10% or more better than Zaheer. Whereas there are 14 bowlers who have an ER 10% or better than Srinath.

 

[kira]

Bowlers below Srinath by economy

 

Shoaib Akhtar (PAK)	1998-2003	95	94	735.0	62	3319	155	6/16	21.41	4.51	28.4	3	3
HH Streak (ZIM)	1993-2003	172	169	1431.1	100	6474	212	5/32	30.53	4.52	40.5	6	1
BKV Prasad (INDIA)	1994-2001	161	160	1354.5	79	6332	196	5/27	32.30	4.67	41.4	3	1
L Klusener (SA)	1996-2003	154	147	1095.4	40	5140	175	6/49	29.37	4.69	37.5	1	6
JH Kallis (SA)	1996-2003	185	165	1165.2	55	5485	178	5/30	30.81	4.70	39.2	2	2
CL Cairns (NZ)	1991-2003	175	149	1107.2	68	5273	160	5/42	32.95	4.76	41.5	2	1
Waqar Younis (PAK)	1991-2003	231	228	1881.2	122	9014	357	7/36	25.24	4.79	31.6	12	8
AB Agarkar (INDIA)	1998-2003	121	119	996.3	58	5083	182	4/25	27.92	5.10	32.8	8	0

 

 

Bowlers below Zaheer by economy 

 

AB Agarkar (INDIA)	2000-2007	150	147	1216.5	84	6093	215	6/42	28.33	5.00	33.9	7	2
JM Anderson (ENG)	2002-2012	164	161	1352.0	106	6781	222	5/23	30.54	5.01	36.5	10	1
Umar Gul (PAK)	2003-2012	112	110	871.1	63	4430	158	6/42	28.03	5.08	33.0	4	2
SL Malinga (SL)	2004-2012	131	126	1064.1	59	5432	203	6/38	26.75	5.10	31.4	6	5
A Nehra (Asia/INDIA)	2001-2011	120	120	958.3	55	4981	157	6/23	31.72	5.19	36.6	5	2
CRD Fernando (Asia/SL)	2001-2012	147	141	1084.3	53	5648	187	6/27	30.20	5.20	34.7	3	1
IK Pathan (INDIA)	2004-2012	120	118	975.5	53	5142	173	5/27	29.72	5.26	33.8	5	2

 

 

Do I need to say more 

[Muloghonto]

^
The above doesnt mean anything...the bulk majority of the bowlers in both the latest lists are not exactly 'leading their pace attack' bowlers..

 

[kira]

8 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

^

Notice differential between top 10 and Srinath vs top 10 and Zaheer. Srinath was a LOT more expensive than most top level bowlers of the 90s than Zaheer was of the 2000s.

I dropped the criteria to 50 wickets. because not a whole lot of English or NZ bowlers took more than a 100 wickets during that period, due to playing less.

And the stats are revealing- only 8 bowlers have an ER 10% or more better than Zaheer. Whereas there are 14 bowlers who have an ER 10% or better than Srinath.

 

lol 50 wickets   are you seriously going to compare a sample set of 300+ wickets with a sample of 50 wickets, that's your comeback? LMAO 

[kira]

3 minutes ago, Muloghonto said:

^
The above doesnt mean anything...the bulk majority of the bowlers in both the latest lists are not exactly 'leading their pace attack' bowlers..

 

lol that doesn't mean anything because it doesn't fit your agenda? you are ridiculous

[kira]

And people here forget that Srinath had to play with 90s fielders under a match fixing captain with support bowlers like prasad kurruvilla mohanty