Tendulkar's batting exploits while chasing a big total in 2nd Inn

[fineleg]

And, yes, lets hope he fires in the Finals, WE DO NEED HIM to win the finals!!!

[fineleg]

KR and Gambo, Ok. You want to say I'm not objective, ok be my guest. Even though I believe I am, I can understand that posts are what are used to judge a person in a forum in a certain timeframe, and I can get very emotional and upset/rant with my posts. So, I can understand if you wont believe me, without knowing me better. Now, but kic is a SRT fan but has made an objective post atleast. Lets see what the real objective and calm, unemotional fans write for that.

[Predator_05]

Lady ...you yourself are hardly "objective " .

I don't think whiney is a female...

[fineleg]

I see no response to the analysis above from kic. But more attacks on me :D

[Gambit]

KR and Gambo, Ok. You want to say I'm not objective, ok be my guest. Even though I believe I am, I can understand that posts are what are used to judge a person in a forum in a certain timeframe, and I can get very emotional and upset/rant with my posts. So, I can understand if you wont believe me, without knowing me better. Now, but kic is a SRT fan but has made an objective post atleast. Lets see what the real objective and calm, unemotional fans write for that.

I am not objective at all, especially when it comes to SRT but that doesn't mean I overlook the glaring truths, no matter which bat it concerns. And the truth that you should have accepted by now is that he has done well in 275+ run chases, something that you questioned him on. That is why you can hardly claim to be objective.

[Gambit]

I see no response to the analysis above from kic. But more attacks on me :D

Ok. How about this? He averages 45 with a S/R of 84 in matches won while chasing in the last 6 years with 1 ton and 12 50s. That good enough for you, since 'winning' has entered suddenly entered into your criterion?

[fineleg]

Gambit, He was and for the most part still is a great player. There is no surprise that he has a great career runs aggregate and average, and centuries and fifties. No denying that. So, I will accept that. Ok. But this part which kic states and I have been trying to do it in my own emotional rant (which went wrong with people getting upset on a rant on the Great Lord) is true!

For whatever reason - and I have no clue what it could be - SRT seems to have a big problem while chasing in recent years(add chasing bigger scores! if u want)' date= the odd good score notwithstanding.

I didnt provide numbers and I dont track them too well. But, you can watch the matches, and see this pattern happening!!! Can't you!?

[kumble_rocks]

Yawn... Must you go on and on . Enuf has already been said in this thread ..

[zubinpepsi]

comeon guys.. FL is trying to squeece every ounce outa SRT.... cant u see tht??? so SRT will read this and play well in the finals and improve his stats... :haha:

[fineleg]

Ok. How about this? He averages 45 with a S/R of 84 in matches won while chasing in the last 6 years with 1 ton and 12 50s. That good enough for you' date=' since 'winning' has entered suddenly entered into your criterion?[/quote'] Gambit, Plain and simple question (not based on numbers etc, but tell me what you think): Aus scores 315 in 50 overs. India needs to chase that total. SRT and VS (or whoever) comes into bat at the crease. Reasonable pitch conditions for batting etc. Are you confident that SRT today is more than likely going to score a good 80+ and get you going? (No Guarantees ofcourse, Understood, but just do you feel more than likely this will happen) It can (good score from him) happen - but has our confidence been dented or not? These days, I am not very confident he is going to score big when chasing big!!! I am very worried he is going to be gone for 10 or 18 or something like that. Doesn't that fear strike you more often these days? Was that feeling not different sometime back (few years atleast back), when you felt more confident!?

[zubinpepsi]

Gambit, These days, I am not!!! I am very worried he is going to be gone for 10 or 18 or something like that. Doesn't that fear strike you more often these days? Was that feeling not different sometime back (few years atleast back), when you felt more confident!?

phew..... pls save meeeeeeee..... my heart is bleedingg alreadyyyyyyy

[fineleg]

Except for Gambit (even he wrote to my post and not to kic), whom I responded to above, there has been KR, Predator and Zubin Pepsi all targeting Fineleg's posts. No one wants to respond to kic who has provided some analysis and research above.

[Gambit]

Gambit, Plain and simple question (not based on numbers etc, but tell me what you think): Aus scores 315 in 50 overs. India needs to chase that total. SRT and VS (or whoever) comes into bat at the crease. Reasonable pitch conditions for batting etc. Are you confident that SRT today is more than likely going to score a good 80+ and get you going? (No Guarantees ofcourse, Understood, but just do you feel more than likely this will happen) It can (good score from him) happen - but has our confidence been dented or not? These days, I am not!!! I am very worried he is going to be gone for 10 or 18 or something like that. Doesn't that fear strike you more often these days? Was that feeling not different sometime back (few years atleast back), when you felt more confident!?

Didn't he score more than a run a ball 70 at Nagpur chasing 317 v OZ in a must win game? Didn't he whallop a blazing 94 chasing 317 against England in a must win game? Didn't he make 94 at 90 S/R in a must win game v Pak recently? You can't expect him to score every single time. You have to realise that ODI openers succeed rarely while chasing 300+ chases. Show me an opening bat who has bettered 16 50+ scores in 275+ chases. If you can't find one, tough. You can no leg to stand on then.

[zubinpepsi]

u found a partner already??:haha: ppl have wasted their time on u for almost 5 pages.. wat do u still expect frm them?? ur beaten completely.. n u were hiding in ur hole.. until KIC came and posted .. now u came outa ur hole n started ur rant again... pakka politician u r..

[Ram]

Hmmm.. This thread is now meandering pointlessly.

[fineleg]

Didn't he score more than a run a ball 70 at Nagpur chasing 317 v OZ in a must win game? Didn't he whallop a blazing 94 chasing 317 against England in a must win game? Didn't he make 94 at 90 S/R in a must win game v Pak recently? You can't expect him to score every single time. You have to realise that ODI openers succeed rarely while chasing 300+ chases. Show me an opening bat who has bettered 16 50+ scores in 275+ chases. If you can't find one, tough. You can no leg to stand on then.

I can't find an opening bat like that Gambit. And, maybe I am the one feeling that SRT of recent years is not as imposing as he was before. Maybe its just my feeling (without backing of numbers) and I can be prepared to accept it. But I do see kic has posted some numbers that actually show the last 50 ODIs, and the last some years statistics. Maybe inspite of that its just my feeling, I can still accept that, but I would like to see some response to kic (inspite of me willing to accept its just my feeling on SRT-of-recent-years)

[fineleg]

until KIC came and posted .. now u came outa ur hole n started ur rant again... pakka politician u r..

What rant? I just said, Kic has done the hard work of analysis and research that people here were asking for. And he posted that, so forget about targetting me and you can respond to his analysis (you dont have to agree with the analysis, but you can still post and disagree). I guess my rants without numbers are an easy target than responding to the analysis posts.

[Chandan]

Gambit, Plain and simple question (not based on numbers etc, but tell me what you think): Aus scores 315 in 50 overs. India needs to chase that total. SRT and VS (or whoever) comes into bat at the crease. Reasonable pitch conditions for batting etc. Are you confident that SRT today is more than likely going to score a good 80+ and get you going? (No Guarantees ofcourse, Understood, but just do you feel more than likely this will happen) It can (good score from him) happen - but has our confidence been dented or not? These days, I am not very confident he is going to score big when chasing big!!! I am very worried he is going to be gone for 10 or 18 or something like that. Doesn't that fear strike you more often these days? Was that feeling not different sometime back (few years atleast back), when you felt more confident!?

One very important question, fineleg, Why do you expect only Sachin to fire in these matches? Obviously he won't chase 300+runs all on his own, open as well as stay till the end to take India to victory? I've never seen you that "worried" for a Sehwag, Sharma, Gambhir, Yuvi. Dhoni et al or earlier even for Dravid and Ganguly when all of them clearly haven't done as well as him before!! Why do you have this astronomical expectation just from Sachin, when you have made it clear many times that you neither hold a grudge against him, nor are his fan either. So you posts are not backing your statements!

[fineleg]

Chandan, I dont expect SRT to score all the runs...but I have higher expectations from SRT than from a Sehwag, Gambhir etc. If thats my fault for having higher expectations, ok, so be it. Alrite, Chandan. Lets say my posts were meaningless in this thread, and lets say MM is concerned about this thread meandering. Lets make it not meander, by ignoring my meaningless posts, and responding to someone else's analysis which hopefully wont be classified as "meaningless"...

SRT is a great batsman - both in ODIs and Tests. However, it is also a fact that over the last 50 ODIs or so, his average batting second is around 50% of his average batting first. Neither has this been a recent occurance. He has consistently been averaging far lower while chasing than while batting first. Forget large scores, low scores, batting position etc etc. Read as Cuml Average, Batting First, Batting Second Since 2008 25.7 22.8 Since 2007 58.4 32.0 Since 2006 63.9 29.9 Since 2005 55.7 28.5 Since 2004 48.7 33.0 Since 2003 51.2 34.0 Since 2002 54.1 35.5 Since 2001 54.0 38.5 I really would love to understand how he manages this. Clearly, it cannot be form or injury because he has been doing well in the first innings right through. The numbers do show that it has been a struggle in recent years in the second innings. Fineleg may be very vocal and aggressive about it but I am surprised that hardly anyone finds any problem in these numbers. Or anything worth discussing about. For whatever reason - and I have no clue what it could be - SRT seems to have a big problem while chasing in recent years, the odd good score notwithstanding. Does this mean that I will drop him from the side? Obviously not. His recent lean phase has not been a very long one. Also, teams do not always bat second and his record batting first is probably the best in the world. However, I would definitely give some thought to the idea of playing him down the order if India bats second. At least, it is definitely not something that has to be scoffed at or put down as sheer negativity / stupidity / whatever. It is worth mentioning here that this may not really help. Sadly, he is far worse when he is not opening in matches where India bats second. Over this same period, he has averaged 20.5 in 16 matches. Will he improve if he does it on a far more regular basis rather than in an ad-hoc manner as has happened in the past? I dont know! India may also struggle to get some other opener who averages even 30 in the second innings. However, shouldn't this be given a thought at all, given that a) we are not really losing much at the top anyway; b) it just may - however remote the probability - do the trick w.r.t. his batting? For all we know, after all this discussion, SRT may come up with a blinding hundred in a successful 300+ run chase in the CB series finals. Better still, he may come up with two of them. However, as things stand today, it would take a very brave man to put money on that. I so look forward to being proven wrong over the next week.

[Ram]

As a passionate Sachin fan, I find it amusing as his critics datamine every nitty-gritty aspect of his batting record. Its just mind boggling the kind of demands they place on him. " He doesnt score in finals, he doesnt score as much batting second, he isnt good at chasing......" The list is truly endless. Honestly, what more do you want him to do ? Is he some sort of Toyota manufactured assembly machine, that churns out runs by the millions everytime someone switches him on ? EVERY batsman has some empty space or loop-hole in his record. Its just natural. There is no way we can point out to any single batsman and say " His record is perfect" and thats because, as the number of matches played increased drastically, the different filters of assessment also increases. Can any of us assess how Bradman or for that matter Gary Sobers performed, while chasing in a one-dayer ? Of course we cant, coz they didnt play any one-dayers at all. And because Sachin has played most of his cricket in the modern era, with all the media scrutiny, different grounds, different tournaments, he has become an unfortunate victim of unfair performance parameters. Terribly unlucky, is this guy. I have said it many times before, and I shall say it again. Sachin is genius personified. I have never seen ANY batsman, sustain this kind of consistency over such periods of time. EVERY time there have been doubts cast over his greatness as batsman, Sachin has managed to re-invent himself, pull out a new trick out of the hat, leaving even the most biased critics gasping, not knowing what to say from then on. Could there be more proof of that, than in this board ? When the world cup 07 finished, some of the most well-informed, intelligent fans, right here, were baying for his blood. But, from then on, he has silenced 'em all with his amazing performances, ending last with 1500 ODI runs and beginning this year his most prolific test match series ever. All this, after nearly 20 years of his international debut. Honestly, give him a break will ya ? We are all lucky that Sachin is even playing for us, that we can witness a genius in motion. Instead of probing deeply into the hidden anatomies of his record, why cant we all be just proud and glad of what he has done so far for us ? After all, there hasnt been one like him, and there will NEVER be one like him. He is the crown jewel of Indian cricket. Only, most of us fail to realize that.