How ancient DNA is denying claims by Right Wing Hindus

[Alam_dar]

How did the caste system begin in India? 

 

Caste system is directly related to the race system. This "white racism" of the Aryans was the  base on which caste system began (as has been made clear in details in the article). Caste system itself means keeping the race pure. 

 

This Aryan/Dravidian divide is giving the answer to this question in a satisfactory way. It is also explaining the difference in the script in a satisfactory way. 

Edited January 3, 2019 by Alam_dar

[coffee_rules]

What are uou bringing the Aryan dravidian theory for? It has been debunked by most modern archeologists with DNA evidence. Dravidians were created to break cummunities politically. There have been south kingdoms that have spread till north and viceversa, no such expansion was because of a aryan dravidian race war. This is 18th century theory that western Indologists believed and that caused 2 Wws as well.

 

Caste is a western term is different from the jaathi or varna system that started with professions. Since there was knowledge in professions, people started to safeguard their professions within family or community. There is no race theory here.

Edited January 3, 2019 by coffee_rules

[Muloghonto]

On 1/1/2019 at 4:54 PM, coffee_rules said:

Yes, most certainly, that's how it was 5000 years ago, when humanity learnt from each other. Romans have recorded history about some textile or silk being so popular and it was from Indian region. Later the narrative is that the west civilized the whole world.

??

You are making strawman claims. Western narratives of how the west civilized the whole world is a western right wing nonsense, just like the indian right wing nonsense of how civilization started in India and we were the first civilized people on the planet. 

[Muloghonto]

21 hours ago, Alam_dar said:

How did the caste system begin in India? 

 

Caste system is directly related to the race system. This "white racism" of the Aryans was the  base on which caste system began (as has been made clear in details in the article). Caste system itself means keeping the race pure. 

 

This Aryan/Dravidian divide is giving the answer to this question in a satisfactory way. It is also explaining the difference in the script in a satisfactory way. 

This is nonsense.

There is also no Aryan vs Dravidian divide in genetics. 

There is no basis to the idea that caste is white superiority based ideology. Indian genetics (including pakistani) decisively counters this. 

There are plenty of scholarly articles posted on this in the past you keep running away from, to keep your racist nonsense spewing up from time to time. 

 

[Alam_dar]

18 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

Caste is a western term is different from the jaathi or varna system that started with professions. Since there was knowledge in professions, people started to safeguard their professions within family or community. There is no race theory here.

Modern Muslims also come up with new excuses to defend/hide the wrongs in their religion. I have learnt never to trust in the modern religious excuses, but to keep my own eyes and brain open. 

 

Caste system began when the Hindu Religious Texts (Vedas in this case) declared that Brahmins were born from the head, Khashtaryas from arms, Vashiyas from thighs  and Shudras from feet. This was the BASE, and after this automatically professions became family based.

 

Off course modern Hindus try to bring different excuses in order to defend/hide it, but other Hindu Religious Texts (Smritis) and earlier Hindu Scholars like Shankar Achariya, all were unanimous about the birth based caste system, with the exception that good deeds may help one to change his caste in which he was born. 

 

Another tactics of the modern religious people (all like Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus...) is this that they put the whole blame upon their earlier Scholars and the whole community that they misunderstood the religious texts, and they made the mistakes for last thousands of years (till this century where humanity got enough conciousness to see these wrongs), while there was nothing wrong in the original religious texts. 

 

And I always tell them this excuse could never the accepted that the DIVINE creatures revealed their laws in such vague way that no normal person could understand them. Forget about normal person understanding them, even the most talented scholars of those religions didn't understand them and went astray along with billions of true followers of that religion for thousands of years.

 

 

Edited January 4, 2019 by Alam_dar

[Alam_dar]

4 hours ago, Muloghonto said:

This is nonsense.

There is also no Aryan vs Dravidian divide in genetics. 

There is no basis to the idea that caste is white superiority based ideology. Indian genetics (including pakistani) decisively counters this. 

There are plenty of scholarly articles posted on this in the past you keep running away from, to keep your racist nonsense spewing up from time to time. 

You are a rude person, with no etiquettes of discussion. 

[Muloghonto]

1 minute ago, Alam_dar said:

You are a rude person, with no etiquettes of discussion. 

i am rude to those who peddle nonsense, despite being corrected multiple times with scientific peer reviewed articles, on the basis of some random websites off of the internet like you posted. 

Those who hold belief systems do not deserve respect once they are corrected and still stick to the nonsense in their religiosity. Trouble with you is,you only see that amongst mainstream religious people, not followers of random new-age make-believe nonsense like you and your 'meat diet' nonsense or you and your racial theories nonsense. 

Should you wish me to dig up the peer reviewed articles on genetics, that show everyone east of the Indus all the way to Arakan Yoma mountains are 95% of the same genetics - with two main human migration waves ANI and ASI - both well over 30,000 years old forming the mix, with the more south you go, the more ASI is present, with more ANI in the north- yet neither one of them dips below 40% of the average Indian/Pakistani/Bangladeshi's gene-pool. 

So take your racial superiority nonsense theories of brahmins elsewhere to uneducated fools about caste. I come from a Brahmin family and i pillor brahmin culture more than you do. Yet i am not foolish enough to say brahminism has any racial superiority genetics in it, since a super-dark Brahmin from Kerala is still more favorable to an average Punjabi brahmin over their super-fair Punjabi lower caste member. 

[Muloghonto]

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Modern Muslims also come up with new excuses to defend/hide the wrongs in their religion. I have learnt never to trust in the modern religious excuses, but to keep my own eyes and brain open. 

 

Caste system began when the Hindu Religious Texts (Vedas in this case) declared that Brahmins were born from the head, Khashtaryas from arms, Vashiyas from thighs  and Shudras from feet. This was the BASE, and after this automatically professions became family based.

Sure. This has zero actual racist component to it. 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

 

Off course modern Hindus try to bring different excuses in order to defend/hide it, but other Hindu Religious Texts (Smritis) and earlier Hindu Scholars like Shankar Achariya, all were unanimous about the birth based caste system, with the exception that good deeds may help one to change his caste in which he was born. 

Birth based caste system does not make it a different race or a racial based system. Up until 100 years ago, Europe had the royalty, nobility and commoner class - yet the royalty of England, Nobility of England and the small-folk are still the same genetic population, with minor outside influence. Obviously the higher classes will have slightly higher influence from outside, since prior to the availability of modern transport and border protocols, its the rich or the powerful, not the poor, who travelled long distances and lived elsewhere. However, these influences are minor to any gene pool. 

Caste is pretty much a more formalized version of the same system. 

1 hour ago, Alam_dar said:

Another tactics of the modern religious people (all like Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus...) is this that they put the whole blame upon their earlier Scholars and the whole community that they misunderstood the religious texts, and they made the mistakes for last thousands of years (till this century where humanity got enough conciousness to see these wrongs), while there was nothing wrong in the original religious texts. 

 

And I always tell them this excuse could never the accepted that the DIVINE creatures revealed their laws in such vague way that no normal person could understand them. Forget about normal person understanding them, even the most talented scholars of those religions didn't understand them and went astray along with billions of true followers of that religion for thousands of years.

 

 

Your main problem is you put hindus/hinduism in the same class as Jews, Christians and Muslims. They are not. Until you can differentiate between Abrahamic faith and Dharmic+ Eastern faiths, you simply have zero case to make any case.

 

[Alam_dar]

19 hours ago, coffee_rules said:

What are uou bringing the Aryan dravidian theory for? It has been debunked by most modern archeologists with DNA evidence. Dravidians were created to break cummunities politically. There have been south kingdoms that have spread till north and viceversa, no such expansion was because of a aryan dravidian race war. This is 18th century theory that western Indologists believed and that caused 2 Wws as well.

I don't know which modern research you are pointing too.

 

While the most modern research is indeed pointing out to the Aryan immigration into India around 2,000 BC. 

The Aryan/Dravidian debate is more about politics today, but irrespective of this the reality is still this that North India has more of Aryan DNA as compared to the South. 

 

My interest is to find out how the varna (also means colour) system began in India. And for me proofs are conclusive that it started with the arrival of white Aryans, and that same time Vedas appeared as has been suggested in this study. 

 

Here is the most modern study, published in 2017 in the peer-reviewed journal called ‘BMC Evolutionary Biology’.. You can read about it in this article:

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https://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/science/how-genetics-is-settling-the-aryan-migration-debate/article19090301.ece

 

How genetics is settling the Aryan migration debate

... 

Until recently, only data on mtDNA (or matrilineal DNA, transmitted only from mother to daughter) were available and that seemed to suggest there was little external infusion into the Indian gene pool over the last 12,500 years or so. New Y-DNA data has turned that conclusion upside down, with strong evidence of external infusion of genes into the Indian male lineage during the period in question.

The reason for the difference in mtDNA and Y-DNA data is obvious in hindsight: there was strong sex bias in Bronze Age migrations. In other words, those who migrated were predominantly male and, therefore, those gene flows do not really show up in the mtDNA data. On the other hand, they do show up in the Y-DNA data: specifically, about 17.5% of Indian male lineage has been found to belong to haplogroup R1a (haplogroups identify a single line of descent), which is today spread across Central Asia, Europe and South Asia. Pontic-Caspian Steppe is seen as the region from where R1a spread both west and east, splitting into different sub-branches along the way. ...

 

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