Should Pant start batting at #6?

[zen]

9 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Gilly always said that his runs are bonus. SO he had the license to play the way he wanted all through his career.  Pant has to be given that kind of freedom.

He played for a line up that looked like below. I don't see Gilly (or Flower, Stewart, etc.) batting at #7 if he were playing for our current team. And batting at 6, one does not need to change his game or play w/o freedom .... Even at #7, Pant is playing as a WK AR, who is expected to score runs. Or we would be playing Saha, who is a better WK

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1999 and 1 Jan 2009

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 10 of 10

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RT Ponting	1999-2008	105	178	24	9488	257	61.61	15600	60.82	35	36	9	1077	56
MEK Hussey	2005-2008	33	56	8	2834	182	59.04	5724	49.51	9	13	4	305	17
ML Hayden	2000-2008	95	170	14	8294	380	53.16	13604	60.96	29	29	10	1009	81
SR Waugh	1999-2004	58	85	12	3818	199	52.30	7589	50.30	15	11	6	451	14
DR Martyn	2000-2006	60	97	13	4089	165	48.67	7838	52.16	13	20	6	485	9
MJ Clarke	2004-2008	43	68	8	2884	151	48.06	5501	52.42	9	12	2	307	16
AC Gilchrist	1999-2008	96	137	20	5570	204*	47.60	6796	81.95	17	26	14	677	100
JL Langer	1999-2007	90	157	11	6804	250	46.60	11964	56.87	21	24	7	844	38
SM Katich	2001-2008	34	58	5	2281	157	43.03	4612	49.45	6	12	2	269	4
ME Waugh	1999-2002	43	68	7	2334	121	38.26	4482	52.07	5	14	8	276	9

Edited January 4, 2019 by zen

[vvvslaxman]

18 minutes ago, zen said:

He played for a line up that looked like below. I don't see Gilly (or Flower, Stewart, etc.) batting at #7 if he were playing for our current team. And batting at 6, one does not need to change his game or play w/o freedom .... Even at #7, Pant is playing as a WK AR, who is expected to score runs. Or we would be playing Saha, who is a better WK

 

View overall figures [change view]

Primary team Australia

Start of match date between 1 Jan 1999 and 1 Jan 2009

Qualifications runs scored greater than or equal to 2000

Ordered by batting average (descending)

Page 1 of 1

Showing 1 - 10 of 10

First Previous

Next  Last

Return to query menu Cleared query menu

Overall figures

Player	Span	Mat	Inns	NO	Runs	HS	Ave	BF	SR	100	50	0	4s	6s
RT Ponting	1999-2008	105	178	24	9488	257	61.61	15600	60.82	35	36	9	1077	56
MEK Hussey	2005-2008	33	56	8	2834	182	59.04	5724	49.51	9	13	4	305	17
ML Hayden	2000-2008	95	170	14	8294	380	53.16	13604	60.96	29	29	10	1009	81
SR Waugh	1999-2004	58	85	12	3818	199	52.30	7589	50.30	15	11	6	451	14
DR Martyn	2000-2006	60	97	13	4089	165	48.67	7838	52.16	13	20	6	485	9
MJ Clarke	2004-2008	43	68	8	2884	151	48.06	5501	52.42	9	12	2	307	16
AC Gilchrist	1999-2008	96	137	20	5570	204*	47.60	6796	81.95	17	26	14	677	100
JL Langer	1999-2007	90	157	11	6804	250	46.60	11964	56.87	21	24	7	844	38
SM Katich	2001-2008	34	58	5	2281	157	43.03	4612	49.45	6	12	2	269	4
ME Waugh	1999-2002	43	68	7	2334	121	38.26	4482	52.07	5	14	8	276	9

Prior to this series nobody had this idea remotely. After one series we float this idea. There were many convincing reasons given for promoting Ashwin to 6 as well. Jadeja can make the same case averaging 60 in first class and 31 at test level.  Pant hasn't yet proved long enough that he is as good as a specialist batsman to play at 6. We merely go by this first year performance.  If his keeping has to really improve, treat him as a keeper first.

[zen]

Just now, vvvslaxman said:

Prior to this series nobody had this idea remotely. After one series we float this idea. There were many convincing reasons given for promoting Ashwin to 6 as well. Jadeja can make the same case averaging 60 in first class and 31 at test level.  Pant hasn't yet proved long enough that he is as good as a specialist batsman to play at 6. We merely go by this first year performance.  If his keeping has to really improve, treat him as a keeper first.

Not apples to apples as they are primarily bowlers, who can bat .... Pant is more like a batsman who can keep (relative to specialists such as Saha, who can bat too like Ashwin and Jadeja). As mentioned in OP, now Pant appears to have adjusted to the learning curve of playing test cricket. Moving up to #6 (or even higher in future as a pure batsman) is a natural path of progression for him .... Additionally, we are touring WI and playing SA and BD at home in 2019 .... all of these have created the perfect opportunity for him 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, zen said:

Not apples to apples as they are primarily bowlers, who can bat .... Pant is more like a batsman who can keep (relative to specialists such as Saha, who can bat too like Ashwin and Jadeja). As mentioned in OP, now Pant appears to have adjusted to the learning curve of playing test cricket. Moving up to #6 (or even higher in future as a pure batsman) is a natural path of progression for him .... Additionally, we are touring WI and playing SA and BD at home in 2019 .... all of these have created the perfect opportunity for him 

No he should be treated as a keeper first and treat his runs as bonus.  Saha is done. dusted. He is 34. Pant is here to stay as a keeper. We have ruined so many players by focusing on their batting credentials. There is no guarantee Pant will continue producing 100s, 50s. Moving from 7 to 6 a spot belongs to specialist bat is way way too early. 

[zen]

11 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

No he should be treated as a keeper first and treat his runs as bonus.  Saha is done. dusted. He is 34. Pant is here to stay as a keeper. We have ruined so many players by focusing on their batting credentials. There is no guarantee Pant will continue producing 100s, 50s. Moving from 7 to 6 a spot belongs to specialist bat is way way too early. 

As aforementioned he is being played for his ability to bat too vs keep only. Saha has not retired as a WK, he is Ind’s best. When Ind is batting, Pant is not keeping, is he? 

 

This is not about guaranteeing 100s or 50s, which some else playing at 6 or 7 cannot too (and has not even measured up to Pant). But Pant being the best option and moving up is a natural path of progression for him 

[vvvslaxman]

1 hour ago, zen said:

As aforementioned he is being played for his ability to bat too vs keep only. Saha has not retired as a WK, he is Ind’s best. When Ind is batting, Pant is not keeping, is he? 

 

This is not about guaranteeing 100s or 50s, which some else playing at 6 or 7 cannot too (and has not even measured up to Pant). But Pant being the best option and moving up is a natural path of progression for him 

Saha was better. Not THE BEST. Let us keep in perspective he dropped  catches too.  Pant + Pandya >>>>>> Pant + Saha

[zen]

8 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Saha was better. Not THE BEST. Let us keep in perspective he dropped  catches too.  Pant + Pandya >>>>>> Pant + Saha

I like Saha, but I feel that Pant can be more impactful. Which is one of the reasons that I want Pant to be more effective as a batsman. As a WK, he would face challenges and it takes time to improve. Batting comes naturally to him and getting big runs would improve his standing