Has Kohli become too dependent on Dhoni in limited overs format ?

[bahubali]

1 hour ago, putrevus said:

When your batsmen cannot bowl even in emergency what can captain do.

As if kohli himself bowl in his captaincy. Expectation from batsmen should be scoring run not to bowl. If that's the expectation , kohli should bowl himself first. Moreover rather than always finding fault in others kohli should look himself that how he is marcelling his troop.

[putrevus]

3 minutes ago, bahubali said:

As if kohli himself bowl in his captaincy. Expectation from batsmen should be scoring run not to bowl. If that's the expectation , kohli should bowl himself first. Moreover rather than always finding fault in others kohli should look himself that how he is marcelling his troop.

What is your point. When did I say batsmen have to bowl. All I said was no batsmen in this team that includes Kohli has any ability as bowler. So when one or more bowlers have bad days, he will look clueless. Kohli does not need to tactical genius to be captain on this Indian team, he is fine as he is now to lead this team.He is a leader who leads by example. 

[bahubali]

57 minutes ago, putrevus said:

What is your point. When did I say batsmen have to bowl. All I said was no batsmen in this team that includes Kohli has any ability as bowler. So when one or more bowlers have bad days, he will look clueless. Kohli does not need to tactical genius to be captain on this Indian team, he is fine as he is now to lead this team.He is a leader who leads by example. 

Ya we are very seeing what kind of leader he is let him and you be happy with kit ply cups , soon enough we ll see his leadership in WC . He should have never been made captain person like him who can't control his emotion should never been in leadership group let alone captaincy.

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, bahubali said:

Ya we are very seeing what kind of leader he is let him and you be happy with kit ply cups , soon enough we ll see his leadership in WC . He should have never been made captain person like him who can't control his emotion should never been in leadership group let alone captaincy.

I don't care about IPL. What cups did he lose as a captain.He went to final for one major tournament he captained and has won odi series in every country except England. What else do you need as a captain. He has one of the highest winning percentage as an odi captain. He is best test captain India ever had, what else do you from your captain.

 

He became best batsman in world after taking over the captaincy, what more do you want from your captain. 

[bahubali]

6 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I don't care about IPL. What cups did he lose as a captain.He went to final for one major tournament he captained and has won odi series in every country except England. What else do you need as a captain. He has one of the highest winning percentage as an odi captain. He is best test captain India ever had, what else do you from your captain.

 

He became best batsman in world after taking over the captaincy, what more do you want from your captain. 

Are you blind have you seen standard of odi team in past 2-3 years. Only team which is strong we lost against them. And who can forget the final of ct17 which he lost against the most mediocre Pakistani team ever assembled. The only tournament which mattered that too against arch rivals he has been humiliated. As said you keep celebrating cool Nd cool and kitply biletrals against mediocre teams we ll see his aukat in WC. For you reaching final would be achievement not for everyone. India has been reaching final and SF most tournament lately so what's your point.

[putrevus]

22 minutes ago, bahubali said:

Are you blind have you seen standard of odi team in past 2-3 years. Only team which is strong we lost against them. And who can forget the final of ct17 which he lost against the most mediocre Pakistani team ever assembled. The only tournament which mattered that too against arch rivals he has been humiliated. As said you keep celebrating cool Nd cool and kitply biletrals against mediocre teams we ll see his aukat in WC. For you reaching final would be achievement not for everyone. India has been reaching final and SF most tournament lately so what's your point.

What standard are you talking about. 1983 world cup India won against the best team maybe ever in history with one of weakest teams. Stop living in past upsets happen, get over it. He is doing just fine as captain.

[bahubali]

8 hours ago, putrevus said:

What standard are you talking about. 1983 world cup India won against the best team maybe ever in history with one of weakest teams. Stop living in past upsets happen, get over it. He is doing just fine as captain.

That wasnt the upset India defeated West Indies twice convincingly in the same tournament. And similarly India got thrashed by sl and Pak convincingly in CT 17 so you get over it that it was just an upset.

Edited April 12, 2019 by bahubali

[putrevus]

8 hours ago, bahubali said:

That wasnt the upset India defeated West Indies twice convincingly in the same tournament. And similarly India got thrashed by sl and Pak convincingly in CT 17 so you get over it that it was just an upset.

They were thrashed in CT because their spinners were ineffective during middle overs, give the guy some credit , he dropped his most potent match winner in tests in Ashwin without blinking twice. CT was his only tournament to date and he reached finals in it. 

[bahubali]

58 minutes ago, putrevus said:

They were thrashed in CT because their spinners were ineffective during middle overs, give the guy some credit , he dropped his most potent match winner in tests in Ashwin without blinking twice. CT was his only tournament to date and he reached finals in it. 

Reaching to final among bunch of mediocre odi team and s not great achievement. But loosing a world tournamentfinal against an utter mediocre team is real disgrace.

[putrevus]

3 hours ago, bahubali said:

Reaching to final among bunch of mediocre odi team and s not great achievement. But loosing a world tournamentfinal against an utter mediocre team is real disgrace.

Yeah right, when was world filled with all super teams. Oh wait 2003 when India beat mighty Kenya to reach finals is great achievement.

 

Stop finding faults and more importantly stop glorifying the past.

[bahubali]

Even that Kenya team was much stronger than Pak ct17 tells you a lot about current odi standard.

 

Edited April 12, 2019 by bahubali

[vvvslaxman]

On 4/11/2019 at 7:51 AM, putrevus said:

When your batsmen cannot bowl even in emergency what can captain do.when one or two bowlers are having bad day. How did Dhoni look outside India captaining when he could not rely on part timers like Raina and Yuvraj to squeeze in few overs.

 

Dhoni is ultimate captain when he can control the game with spinners but he looked more clueless when he had to depend on fast bowlers.

 

 

No. good captains thrive under adversity. Match is on a knife edge. One wicket can turn the match around. If i want an Indian captain to manage that situation it would be either Dhoni or Rohit. Actually Rahane is a better captain than Kohli too. Best example is the recent match where Vijay SHankar picked 2 wickets in the last over. Kohli originally thought of "finishing up" Vijay shankar over by 43rd over. Rohit/Dhoni intervened and changed his mind to take the match to the deep. Also in another match he was focusing more on using up 5th bowler asap and brought on Kedhar/Shankar before Kuldeep.

Edited April 12, 2019 by vvvslaxman

[putrevus]

6 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

No. good captains thrive under adversity. Match is on a knife edge. One wicket can turn the match around. If i want an Indian captain to manage that situation it would be either Dhoni or Rohit. Actually Rahane is a better captain than Kohli too. Best example is the recent match where Vijay SHankar picked 2 wickets in the last over. Kohli originally thought of "finishing up" Vijay shankar over by 43rd over. Rohit/Dhoni intervened and changed his mind to take the match to the deep. Also in another match he was focusing more on using up 5th bowler asap and brought on Kedhar/Shankar before Kuldeep.

I can give you many examples on how Dhoni in his eager to finish fifth bowler's  quota got in part timers even when main bowlers were taking wickets and ended up losing the matches.

 

The only fault I can find in his captaincy is his innate urge to keep changing the team. Other than that he is fine, is he the greatest tactician no but he is evolving and he is the best captain for India at this time.

[vvvslaxman]

5 minutes ago, putrevus said:

I can give you many examples on how Dhoni in his eager to finish fifth bowler's  quota got in part timers even when main bowlers were taking wickets and ended up losing the matches.

 

The only fault I can find in his captaincy is his innate urge to keep changing the team. Other than that he is fine, is he the greatest tactician no but he is evolving and he is the best captain for India at this time.

Yes. It is an open secret, his team building is by far the worst by country mile in history of Indian cricket. But he is not a great onfield tactician as well. In short he is a bit like Sachin Tendulkar. Tunnell vision. Afraid of going unconventional way like Gambhir. If i remember right Gambhir while blanking NZ 5-0 in the home ODI series had some unique field sets for Ashwin's bowling. It worked perfectly. He also bowls the right bowlers to right batsman.

Edited April 12, 2019 by vvvslaxman

[putrevus]

7 minutes ago, vvvslaxman said:

Yes. It is an open secret, his team building is by far the worst by country mile in history of Indian cricket. But he is not a great onfield tactician as well. In short he is a bit like Sachin Tendulkar. Tunnell vision. Afraid of going unconventional way like Gambhir. If i remember right Gambhir while blanking NZ 5-0 in the home ODI series had some unique field sets for Ashwin's bowling. It worked perfectly. He also bowls the right bowlers to right batsman.

Onfield tactics is overated in my book, if your bowlers are crap no captain can win you matches. Kohli's greatest contribution as a captain is making Indian fast bowling good and dependable.He has made this Indian team's strength more in bowling than batting.That is more than enough to overcome any tactical mistakes he has made.He will improve as he gains more experience. Unlike any other Indian captain, he has taken his batting to new level after becoming captain.

 

He is one Indian captain who is critical in making Indian team depend on their fast bowlers and may he continue that process.He is unfraid to make changes and drop anyone that is good but he needs to do it more wisely.

[vvvslaxman]

23 minutes ago, putrevus said:

Onfield tactics is overated in my book, if your bowlers are crap no captain can win you matches. Kohli's greatest contribution as a captain is making Indian fast bowling good and dependable.He has made this Indian team's strength more in bowling than batting.That is more than enough to overcome any tactical mistakes he has made.He will improve as he gains more experience. Unlike any other Indian captain, he has taken his batting to new level after becoming captain.

 

He is one Indian captain who is critical in making Indian team depend on their fast bowlers and may he continue that process.He is unfraid to make changes and drop anyone that is good but he needs to do it more wisely.

In Tests captaining is a bit easier. You have time to analyze your mistakes and come back. In limited overs you have to make the decisions on the spot. He completely froze in CT final and also against Srilanka in the CT. In the last ODIs against Australia also he looked out of place. Having seen both Kohli and Rohit captaining the ODI side, Rohit is clearly significantly better than Kohli in all aspects. Even Ashwin is a better captain. Too bad he can't find a spot. You cannot blame your players when they don't deliver. Players are bound to have bad days. you have to have a plan B. 

Edited April 12, 2019 by vvvslaxman

[CSK Fan]

I have always maintained Dhoni interfering in LOIs has harmed indian cricket big time. A new captain needs to grow And learn on his own, not be spoon fed. If your dad keeps doing your home work for you, you are going to fail in the exams every time when dad is not there

 

If Dhoni is so hungry for captaincy he should not have retired. And after he did, he should not interfere so much. Dhoni had people with experience like sachin, dravid, laxman, ganguly, sehwag, etc in his team. Imagine if they had insisted on spoon feeding him. He never would have been able to make those instinctive decisions which he is known for. 

 

Kohli should have been allowed to make mistakes even if we lost those matches. He should have been allowed to learn. If he proved to be an awful captain he would have been replaced by now. Or he would have learned and improved. Continuing like this is not good for the team in any sense and is only done to accommodate Dhoni's collosal ego

Edited April 13, 2019 by CSK Fan