Who should bat at #4 in the WC?

[sandeep]

On 4/15/2019 at 1:28 PM, sandeep said:

Virat Kohli.

 

Rohit, Shikhar, KLPD in the top 3, with clear instructions to attack the bowling in the 2 over to 10 over timeframe.  Even if one wicket falls.  Let KLPD come in at #3 if Brohit won't give up his opening slot.  Let Virat bat at #4.  

 

 

Bump.   

[sandeep]

On 4/16/2019 at 1:59 PM, sandeep said:

Spoken like a fan with a 2011 understanding of ODI cricket.

 

Kohli is "doing fine" at being the ODI anchor.  He can continue to do just that at #4.  There is zero value in forcing Kohli to walk in to bat and face the new ball in the 1st 10 overs, instead of having another #3 who can take the responsibility and risk of scoring quickly in the powerplay.  "Shuffling" from #3 to #4 would require zero changes from Virat in how he approaches his batting, technically or tactically.  

 

Which dumbarse wise man decided that you want your best batsman at #3?  What you want, is the team to give itself the best chance to score maximum number of runs in 300 deliveries.  For India, that means adapting their batting tactics, to stop averaging 44 runs in the 1st 10 overs.  Virat is too good at being the anchor ODI bat, to risk him at #3 and ask him to bat aggressively upfront.  Let him do his thing at #4.  Insert KLPD at the top, and ask him to bat fearlessly.  Heck I would have wanted to see what Rishabh Pant would do as an opener, but that's a fantasy.  Even Rahul at the top is unlikely, because Mr 200-against-SriLanka isn't going to vacate his spot, and will continue to eat balls at 70 SR.  

Bump. 

 

@Ankit_sharma03

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

Bump. 

 

@Ankit_sharma03

 

still im not of fan of him at 4, he doesnt have that extra gear which u need the lesser overs u have . KL has that extra gear like ABDV, Yuvi so he shud be 4 .....he has been great there. The times he has been send to open or even 3 he started batting like rahane eg last yr after the great innings in 2nd odi vs aus he went back to open and played like rahane

Have a opener who gives tempo rohit n kohli pacing wont hurt that much 

[Ankit_sharma03]

5 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Bump. 

 

@Ankit_sharma03

 

also the more the ball gets older the more muscle u need rather then timing, Which is why even rohit failed as he also looks to time more at start. 

KL , abdv, yuvi had that power to clear boundaries when ball isnt coming that well .

 

Guys like smith, williamson, kohli, root, ponting are best at 3 as they like to control game rather coming at 2 wkts down when u have to by the pace of the game rather setting

[sandeep]

3 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

still im not of fan of him at 4, he doesnt have that extra gear which u need the lesser overs u have . KL has that extra gear like ABDV, Yuvi so he shud be 4 .....he has been great there. The times he has been send to open or even 3 he started batting like rahane eg last yr after the great innings in 2nd odi vs aus he went back to open and played like rahane

Have a opener who gives tempo rohit n kohli pacing wont hurt that much 

Virat is a middle over specialist. Our anchor.  His job is to bat the middle 30 overs at minimal risk and prevent collapses, and let the hitters bat around him. Ahead of him and below.  My point is that having him come in the powerplay, is risking our primary anchor for very little benefit to the team's win probability.  

 

You wrote yourself that if Virat had come in at #4 in the WC semifinal we could have won.  But you don't want to go all-in on that approach because you are still stuck in that old mindset.  Open your mind.  Be objective and the obvious will stand out.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

13 minutes ago, sandeep said:

Virat is a middle over specialist. Our anchor.  His job is to bat the middle 30 overs at minimal risk and prevent collapses, and let the hitters bat around him. Ahead of him and below.  My point is that having him come in the powerplay, is risking our primary anchor for very little benefit to the team's win probability.  

 

You wrote yourself that if Virat had come in at #4 in the WC semifinal we could have won.  But you don't want to go all-in on that approach because you are still stuck in that old mindset.  Open your mind.  Be objective and the obvious will stand out.  

 

I wrote that had kohli come in at 4 we wud have won ? Where ?

Coz i simply dnt think we wud have even won with bradman also. 

 

Not an old mindset my theory is simple play players at their best position, if someone is better then them then go to 2nd best. I dnt think there is any better in india then kohli at 3 and rahul at 4. Check any of my previous thread i have always wanted rahul at 4 from 2016 when i saw his florida innings. Now if u ask what this team needs it actually needs a leftie in between more then anything. Best teams have good mix of right and left. Our team has one leftie at 1 and then at 7 this allows leggies to settle who basically are troubling kohli n KL, this new chink of leggies is another reason no to kohli. Ill not like to have my best batsman coming in against problem at start. Kohli is better facing starc , cummins archer at start then sodhi zampa rashid. 

If i want kohli like at 4 ill go for gill who plays spin miles better then him, but i dnt want a player like him only at 4 . I prefer abdv n yuvi kind which is rahul not kohli. 

 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

2 minutes ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

Now if u ask what this team needs it actually needs a leftie in between more then anything. Best teams have good mix of right and left. Our team has one leftie at 1 and then at 7 this allows leggies to settle who basically are troubling kohli n KL,

There was a time where I thought a Krunal Pandya could have been tried - as a potential batting upgrade from jaddu, but he's a bowling downgrade.  I still think our 2nd spinner in the ODI XI has to be a better batsman and much better boundary-hitter than Jaddu.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

6 minutes ago, sandeep said:

There was a time where I thought a Krunal Pandya could have been tried - as a potential batting upgrade from jaddu, but he's a bowling downgrade.  I still think our 2nd spinner in the ODI XI has to be a better batsman and much better boundary-hitter than Jaddu.  

I lost hope on krunal batting on SA A tour when i saw his batting against bouncer , worse i ever saw. But i still think krunal n axar are better then jaddu in t20. Jaddu game isnt suited for t20 be it his batting or bowling

 

Yes he our 2 nd best spinner  and if he works better with time in hand why not then that way. I think he ll play a massive role in 2023 wc as its in India and in a long tournament picthes start to turn in 2nd half and this is india so it wud be fun for him. May be give him a try at 4 atleast he can hit spinners big and doesnt have short ball problem. 

Edited December 2, 2020 by Ankit_sharma03

[sandeep]

Just now, Ankit_sharma03 said:

I lost hope on krunal batting on SA A tour when i saw his batting against bouncer , worse i ever saw. But i still think krunal n axar are better then jaddu in t20. Jaddu game isnt suited for t20 be it his batting or bowling

 

Yes he our 2 nd best spinner  and if he works better with time in hand why not then that way. I think he ll play a massive role in 2023 wc as its in India and in a long tournament picthes start to turn in 2nd half and this is india so it wud be fun for him. May be give him a try at 4 atleast he can hit spinners big and doesnt have short ball problem. 

Never going to happen and you know it.

[Ankit_sharma03]

Just now, sandeep said:

Never going to happen and you know it.

 

I know and 7 he ll play all those bad innings until that one day when he ll walk in to bat at 30-32nd over which is his zone 

[sandeep]

1 minute ago, Ankit_sharma03 said:

 

I know and 7 he ll play all those bad innings until that one day when he ll walk in to bat at 30-32nd over which is his zone 

tbh he's not really good enough to be an ODI middle order bat.  Its trying to force it and making lemonade out of lemons because they are starting to rot.  India needs to have batsmen in the 30-40 over who can put pressure on the bowling with 4 outfielders.  Jaddu cannot do that unless he "sets" by eating 30 balls.  That is not ODI Cricket in the current age.  Not in a strong batting lineup - maybe for Pakistan, Zimbabwe, he would shine and be a star.  

[Ankit_sharma03]

1 minute ago, sandeep said:

tbh he's not really good enough to be an ODI middle order bat.  Its trying to force it and making lemonade out of lemons because they are starting to rot.  India needs to have batsmen in the 30-40 over who can put pressure on the bowling with 4 outfielders.  Jaddu cannot do that unless he "sets" by eating 30 balls.  That is not ODI Cricket in the current age.  Not in a strong batting lineup - maybe for Pakistan, Zimbabwe, he would shine and be a star.  

 

yes he is not better then any of our batting talent to bat up but his case is just to hide his weakness so he becomes and asset rather have one liability . 

pandya was ready for a promotion at 5 - 2 yrs ago but jaddu going at 7 is the problem. Actually 5, 6 is also fine for jaddu but 7 gives him to lil time which is not in his zone. In test his batting works coz in test 6 RR is considered quick batting thats his zone, In ODI at his number 7-8 RR which he can only achieve if he is set ....he cant go from ball 1 ...so its his inability at 7 that messes the whole thing