Why green tops don't work in the subcontinent?

[The Outsider]

Have seen many instances of it - Mohali vs. NZ/Pakistan, Rawalpindi vs. Pakistan, Lahore vs. Pakistan, Karachi vs. Pakistan etc. There will be a lot of seam movement in the first two sessions and after that the pitch pans out into a patta which rarely breaks up on the 4th/5th day. The team batting first is at a huge disadvantage and Kumble has only himself to blame for batting first here. The heat in the subcontinent ensures that moist grass is barely fit for cows grazing on it by the second day. South Africa probably would not have batted as poorly as we did and India probably would not have bowled as well as South Africa did, but they would have been shot out for around 200 batting first as well. It's going to be almost impossible to come back from the situation we are in, but hopefully curators in the future don't confuse sporting pitches with leaving grass on it which is going to become useless in a couple of sessions. What's more the grass binding the pitch will probably mean it's not going to break either. This one pretty much appears done and dusted but hopefully we can show some fight in the remainder of the match and come back to square the series in Kanpur.

[cochise]

The team batting first is at a huge disadvantage and Kumble has only himself to blame for batting first here.

Shwetabh...someone of his monumental experience...how could he have made such a silly decision? And he is a smart guy too. I just can't figure it out. He must know what you are elucidated above. Then why the decision to bat first? Only for the advantage of bowling last on a wearing pitch? When bowling up front on a seaming pitch could win it for you? I think that is where it lies...he has very low confidence in the seam attack at the moment...justifiably so, one must say.

[msb1991]

In Kumble's defence, Smith said he'd have batted first too.

[Dhondy]

I'll repeat something I once coined, rather controversially, I must say. If cricket were sex, all the Indian players would be pregnant with the offspring of their South African rivals. Some would have twins and triplets. Shameful, disgusting, loathsome and craven. Toss, pitch... whatever, this was just inexcusable. To think some idiots paid million dollar ransoms for these jokers! Achhh...thooooooo!!

[Desi Cartman]

Even in chennai I didnt see them working hard, they are just going through the motion .. I dont see the same team in Ahemdabad as I saw in Aus .. Something is seriously wrong here ...

[cochise]

Yeah...I agree Desi...the side looks very flat, particularly the seam attack and middle order batting. Dhondy...steady on man...shyte happens. The side is in slumber mode at the moment. They have had a rude awakening. Things will correct themselves.

[graphic23]

They have become lackadaisical. No energy on the field. No one seems to want to do anything on the field - bat, bowl, or field. Perhaps, they needed a longer rest after the Australia series? They got 2 weeks, which is not too bad for the very tiring FTP schedule. Or Maybe, it is time to change things in the Test team as well. Put in someone new, try to change the atmosphere a little bit. Give a bit of energy. None of the batsman have applied themselves very well. With no disrespect to Sehwag, we were able to survive there despite a lackluster performance because of the flat nature of the pitch. Maybe they read the pitch wrong? I don't know but this has been one of the poorer performances we've given over the past 5-6 years. They have been looking very jaded in the field. Even Kumble hasn't been bowling with his usual vigor and determination. The fielding has been abysmal. I don't want to point out only negative aspects about the team but I am unable to find any positives so far, apart from one man's genius. For their own sakes, I hope they pick up.

[Ram]

Dumb-ass curator, cost us the match with his ineptness. These idiots think in very binary terms, 0 or 1, yes or no, green-top or flat-bed, nothing in between. Lets be honest, it will incredibly for us to blame the Indian batsman for this. Just the mere fact that we were bowled out in 20 overs shows how difficult things were out there. Our batsman have been doing well consistently off late, this was just an awful off-day, something we will pay a heavy price for, unfortunately. What I do want to question is the team's decision to bat first on winning the toss. Couldnt they have anticipated how much movement may have happened, couldnt they have known how the pitch would have reacted ? Our batsman deserve some leeway. Blame the Saffie bowlers and the decision to bat first for this mess.

[Sooda]

Why o why did Kumble bat first on this pitch And frak producing sporting wickets- play to our strengths, let it be a minefield like vs Aus Bombay 06 was it...Kartik etc. Its happened agst England and vs Aus in the past 0 green top pitches never work. we just shoot ourselves in the foot. Any batting lineup would have struggled agst Ntini and Steyn on that pitch

[The Outsider]

I have seen the same batsmen bat much better on green tops and score atleast a half decent score. Yesterday it looked like they were just not prepared mentally for such a track in home conditions and were floundering away.

[graphic23]

Dumb-ass curator, cost us the match with his ineptness. These idiots think in very binary terms, 0 or 1, yes or no, green-top or flat-bed, nothing in between. Lets be honest, it will incredibly for us to blame the Indian batsman for this. Just the mere fact that we were bowled out in 20 overs shows how difficult things were out there. Our batsman have been doing well consistently off late, this was just an awful off-day, something we will pay a heavy price for, unfortunately. What I do want to question is the team's decision to bat first on winning the toss. Couldnt they have anticipated how much movement may have happened, couldnt they have known how the pitch would have reacted ? Our batsman deserve some leeway. Blame the Saffie bowlers and the decision to bat first for this mess.

I don't know about that. If we survived and played carefully for one session (obviously, it was too much for us), the pitch seems to have eased off. They didn't have any problems batting (well, we weren't bowling great either). We did well at Perth, Headingley in 2002, Trentbridge last year, which are generally seaming pitches, which ease off after the first session or even after an hour. The batsmen don't deserve any leeway. They were horrendous. Perth and Headingley, especially, we batted first and won. Greentop was probably designed for us so people like Pathan and RP could swing the ball and create problems as they have been doing for the past 10 months or so. I blame everybody. They all need a kick.

[Ram]

I have always said, ALWAYS, along with a few other members like Fineleg that we MUST play to our strenght and opponents' weakness at home, which is spin. In the last 20 years, how many home test matches can we claim that our fast bowlers won for us ? But, the list of battles won by spinners in ENDLESS. I think we should abandon this concept of preparing sporting pitches and prepare flat-bed, raging turners that spin square on day 1. Its all a big myth that sporting, seaming wickets produce good teams.

[cochise]

And one has to give credit to the SA bowlers. Steyn, Ntini and Morkel were outstanding today. A potent force on a seaming wicket. Our boys have got to get out of this "we are playing in India so we can waltz through our innings" syndrome. Off late, their levels of concentration and intensity of focus seem to be there only outside the sub-continent, when they EXPECT to have a difficult time. In India, they seem to sit back and take all the intensity off and think they are on an easy ride. How paradoxical. India have become a beter side away from home than at home...cheifly because they don't feel threatened at home and take it casually. That all just might change after today.

[Desi Cartman]

Rp was bowling at 130 kms/ hr .. IKP bowled at 120-125 (except his last spell)... I didnt hear anybody trying to cheer up the side .. no come on .. nothing .. seems like they are all trying to save their own spots in the side .. Maybe this old - young mixture is not going to work I also believe that RP , I Sharma are not trying 100% as they wanna save themselves from any injuries so they are fit to play in the stupid IPL . Poor leadership in this series so far ..

[Ram]

I don't know about that. If we survived and played carefully for one session (obviously' date=' it was too much for us), the pitch seems to have eased off. They didn't have any problems batting (well, we weren't bowling great either). We did well at Perth, Headingley in 2002, Trentbridge last year, which are generally seaming pitches, which ease off after the first session or even after an hour. The batsmen don't deserve any leeway. They were horrendous. Perth and Headingley, especially, we batted first and won. Greentop was probably designed for us so people like Pathan and RP could swing the ball and create problems as they have been doing for the past 10 months or so. I blame everybody. They all need a kick.[/quote'] I think you realize how futile is it to say things like " IF we had survived the first session, IF we had done this, IF we had done that". Fact of the matter is, the situation was forced upon us because of flawed pitch policy. And the worst part is, this isnt the first time this is happening. The nature of the game is such that, once one team gets out for a paltry score, the pitch seems to magically ease out, no one knows how that happens.

[Desi Cartman]

I have always said, ALWAYS, along with a few other members like Fineleg that we MUST play to our strenght and opponents' weakness at home, which is spin. In the last 20 years, how many home test matches can we claim that our fast bowlers won for us ? But, the list of battles won by spinners in ENDLESS. I think we should abandon this concept of preparing sporting pitches and prepare flat-bed, raging turners that spin square on day 1. Its all a big myth that sporting, seaming wickets produce good teams.

100% correct, any sane person would have learnt this lesson after India lost to Aus in Nagpur .. for f@ck sake what is BCCI doing .. I guess they are busy managing IPL and ICC ...

[Desi Cartman]

I think you realize how futile is it to say things like " IF we had survived the first session, IF we had done this, IF we had done that". Fact of the matter is, the situation was forced upon us because of flawed pitch policy. And the worst part is, this isnt the first time this is happening. The nature of the game is such that, once one team gets out for a paltry score, the pitch seems to magically ease out, no one knows how that happens.

I think Indians could have used the pitch to their advantage in the 2nd session as well but with half hearted effort from RP .. It didnt happen

[cochise]

Graphic is right. A little more application, attention, an attitude of seriousness and respect for the conditions and opposition bowlers could have seen us through the first session without too much damage. Barring that, more energy, intensity and application from the seamers after the skittle could have got us back in today itself. Neither happened. There is no buzz to the side at all. No one to blame but themselves.

[The Outsider]

What we needed was for someone to play the kind of innings Moin Khan played at Calcutta or Akmal played at Karachi ie. someone from the middle order scoring big after the first hour's exaggerated movement quelled down. Pathan looked like doing it, but got no support at all. The shot Dhoni played was outrageous and WTF was Laxman shouldering arms to Ntini knowing his stock ball is the in cutter without getting used to the bounce of the pitch!!

[cochise]

WTF was Laxman shouldering arms to Ntini knowing his stock ball is the in cutter without getting used to the bounce of the pitch!!

Not switched on yet... Lacks intensity when first at crease....expected easy ride into zone I expect. They all needed this shake up so that the are at full attention when in the middle. Also, I don't think our fellas are giving the SA bowlers their due respect on Indian pitches. I can understand Sehwag playing an arrogant shot early as he is coming off a high...but the rest do not seem to be giving due seriousness to their opposition.