Subcon AT ODI 11

[zen]

12 minutes ago, Majestic said:

 

Btw, lol at Imran being a hard hitter. His semi final knock was a perfect match losing one in 1992 before Inzy bailed them out.

People know that Pak was struggling with the bat (in the group game v Eng were bowled out for nothing but saved by the rain) so Imran put his hand up to bat at #3 to not lose early wkts esp. in the first 20-25 overs. Note that there is also  a difference b/w hard hitting and high strike batting. 

[Majestic]

1 hour ago, zen said:

People know that Pak was struggling with the bat (in the group game v Eng were bowled out for nothing but saved by the rain) so Imran put his hand up to bat at #3 to not lose early wkts esp. in the first 20-25 overs. Note that there is also  a difference b/w hard hitting and high strike batting. 

I was talking about semi final knock vs NZ. It was a poor inning before Inzy bailed him out with a magnificent knock at a young age.

[zen]

32 minutes ago, Majestic said:

I was talking about semi final knock vs NZ. It was a poor inning before Inzy bailed him out with a magnificent knock at a young age.

 

That inning could have been played better. I guess that is how he probably defined the role for #3 for his team (set it up for the big hitters down the order when the ball is relatively old) esp. going in to the knockouts since the team had the tendency to collapse in the tournament ... Ind experienced the impact of an early collapse recently v NZ in 2019 SF

 

 

Edited March 4, 2021 by zen

[Majestic]

20 minutes ago, zen said:

 

That inning could have been played better. I guess that is how he probably defined the role for #3 for his team (set it up for the big hitters down the order when the ball is relatively old) esp. going in to the knockouts since the team had the tendency to collapse in the tournament ... Ind experienced the impact of an early collapse recently v NZ in 2019 SF

 

 

Which game is this? I didn't understand your point.

 

I was referring to 1992 WC semi final where Pakistan were chasing 263 vs NZ. Imran scored 44 off 93 balls. When he got out, the score was 130/3 at 33 overs. Luckily for them, Inzy came in and scored a 37 ball 60 in that match and that level of quick scoring was unheard at that time. So, you can clearly see with these scores how poor that inning was. Below is the link:-

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/benson-hedges-world-cup-1991-92-60924/new-zealand-vs-pakistan-1st-sf-65154/full-scorecard

 

Basically, my point is that Imran was a decent batsman but his hitting skills were not good enough for no.7 while for Kapil, it was perfect. As an analogy of their batting skills, Imran is like Jadeja and Kapil is like Pandya.

Edited March 4, 2021 by Majestic
Adding more information

[zen]

4 minutes ago, Majestic said:

Which game is this? I didn't understand your point.

 

I was referring to 1992 WC semi final where Pakistan were chasing 263 vs NZ. Imran scored 44 off 93 balls. When he got out, the score was 130/3 at 33 overs. Luckily for them, Inzy came in and scored a 37 ball 60 in that match and that level of quick scoring was unheard at that time. So, you can clearly see with these scores how poor that inning was. Below is the link:-

 

https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/benson-hedges-world-cup-1991-92-60924/new-zealand-vs-pakistan-1st-sf-65154/full-scorecard

 

Basically, my point is that Imran was a decent batsman but his hitting skills were not good enough for no.7 while for Kapil, it was perfect. As an analogy of their batting skills, Imran is like Jadeja and Kapil is like Pandya.

 

What I explained is that was part of Pak strategy to see off the new ball (white ball cricket was relatively new at that time. It is the 1st world cup using white balls). It collapsed a lot including v Eng where they were saved by rain (got a lucky 1 point that helped it to reach 9 points). Pak players were not able to adjust to the early swing. After observing the collapses, Imran took the responsibility to hold an end and see off the ball with the swing  ... At that time, one of the mantras was to not lose more than 3 wkts before 30-33 overs (first 200 or so balls) as with wkts in hand, you could double the score in the last 17-20 overs (last 100 or so balls) 

[Majestic]

6 minutes ago, zen said:

 

What I explained is that was part of Pak strategy to see off the new ball (white ball cricket was relatively new at that time. It is the 1st world cup using white balls). It collapsed a lot including v Eng where they were saved by rain (got a lucky 1 point that helped it to reach 9 points). Pak players were not able to adjust to the early swing. After observing the collapses, Imran took the responsibility to hold an end and see off the ball with the swing  ... At that time, one of the mantras was to not lose more than 3 wkts before 30-33 overs (first 200 or so balls) as with wkts in hand, you could double the score in the last 17-20 overs (last 100 or so balls) 

But Rameez also scored 44 of 55 balls in the same match and he was opener.  As per my reading of that era, 44 of 55 was considered very good, 44 of even 70 was acceptable but 44 of 95 is just taking too far and it is selfish batting even by that standard. 

[Majestic]

10 minutes ago, zen said:

 

What I explained is that was part of Pak strategy to see off the new ball (white ball cricket was relatively new at that time. It is the 1st world cup using white balls). It collapsed a lot including v Eng where they were saved by rain (got a lucky 1 point that helped it to reach 9 points). Pak players were not able to adjust to the early swing. After observing the collapses, Imran took the responsibility to hold an end and see off the ball with the swing  ... At that time, one of the mantras was to not lose more than 3 wkts before 30-33 overs (first 200 or so balls) as with wkts in hand, you could double the score in the last 17-20 overs (last 100 or so balls) 

But Rameez also scored 44 of 55 balls in the same match and he was opener.  As per my reading of that era, 44 of 55 was considered very good, 44 of even 70 was acceptable but 44 of 95 is just taking too far and it is selfish batting even by that standard. 

[zen]

Just now, Majestic said:

But Rameez also scored 44 of 55 balls in the same match and he was opener.  As per my reading of that era, 44 of 55 was considered very good, 44 of even 70 was acceptable but 44 of 95 is just taking too far and it is selfish batting even by that standard. 

 

In a game, there are multiple strategies/plans in place. One was also to make use of the power plays, then you would have players (Imran during later stages of the tournament and experienced Miandad, who would try to play till the end) to hold till the last few overs. So openers could go after the bowling, when an early wkt fell, Imran would hold an end so the batsman at the other end would play relatively freely. Once Miandad joined, they would built a partnership. When Miandad settled down,Imran would open up at the right moment with wkts in hand. If Miandad got out, Imran would continue with others hitting around him