You can’t even pay people to have more kids

[Nikhil_cric]

Whether a country is nominally socialist or capitalist or from the erstwhile Communist bloc or whatever has very little to do with fertility rates. 

 

South Korea is as capitalist as it gets and it has the world's worst fertility rate, worse than Japan. 

 

 

Russia actually had a reasonably stable/healthy TFR until 1990 and, in fact, crashed after the collapse of the Soviet Union .  Has then undergone a recovery post 1999 and is better of than most Western nations who rely on immigrant communities. 

 

The only strong correlation is with the reduction in percentage of workforce in the agricultural sector and speed of urbanisation - whether that's brought about by a capitalist free market economy or by a centrally planned economy - those are the key factors 

 

 

[coffee_rules]

2 hours ago, Nikhil_cric said:

Whether a country is nominally socialist or capitalist or from the erstwhile Communist bloc or whatever has very little to do with fertility rates. 

 

South Korea is as capitalist as it gets and it has the world's worst fertility rate, worse than Japan. 

 

 

Russia actually had a reasonably stable/healthy TFR until 1990 and, in fact, crashed after the collapse of the Soviet Union .  Has then undergone a recovery post 1999 and is better of than most Western nations who rely on immigrant communities. 

 

The only strong correlation is with the reduction in percentage of workforce in the agricultural sector and speed of urbanisation - whether that's brought about by a capitalist free market economy or by a centrally planned economy - those are the key factors 

 

 

Women educated more and more women in workforce reduces the FR for any country. The converse is also true, less educated women increases the FR

[Nikhil_cric]

21 minutes ago, coffee_rules said:

Women educated more and more women in workforce reduces the FR for any country. The converse is also true, less educated women increases the FR

Yes but I was just commenting that population growth or lack thereof has little to do with which end of the spectrum(Capitalism/Communism) a particular region happens to put into practice.

 

Higher rates of educated women in the workforce is certainly a factor . 

[Tillu]

China Is Pressing Women to Have More Babies. Many Are Saying No.

Fed up with government harassment and wary of the sacrifices of child-rearing, many young women are putting themselves ahead of what Beijing and their families want. Their refusal has set off a crisis for the Communist Party, which desperately needs more babies to rejuvenate China’s aging population.

With the number of babies in free fall—fewer than 10 million were born in 2022, compared with around 16 million in 2012—China is headed toward a demographic collapse. China’s population, now around 1.4 billion, is likely to drop to just around half a billion by 2100, according to some projections. Women are taking the blame.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-population-births-decline-womens-rights-5af9937b

 

 

[cowboysfan]

Chinese after all these economic miracles are still not free people,imagine being told not to have more than 1 child for decades and now forcing people to have children.

[coffee_rules]

5 hours ago, Tillu said:

China Is Pressing Women to Have More Babies. Many Are Saying No.

Fed up with government harassment and wary of the sacrifices of child-rearing, many young women are putting themselves ahead of what Beijing and their families want. Their refusal has set off a crisis for the Communist Party, which desperately needs more babies to rejuvenate China’s aging population.

With the number of babies in free fall—fewer than 10 million were born in 2022, compared with around 16 million in 2012—China is headed toward a demographic collapse. China’s population, now around 1.4 billion, is likely to drop to just around half a billion by 2100, according to some projections. Women are taking the blame.

 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-population-births-decline-womens-rights-5af9937b

 

 

They should do what they do to Giant pandas in the zoo to procreate. It seems these pandas lose interest in having sex very quickly and hence are getting extinct.
 

 

Edited January 5, 2024 by coffee_rules

[Tillu]

I reckon the only way to stop the decline is to ban abortion, morning after pills and condoms. Every government will eventually do this.

[Nikhil_cric]

China's future is as secure as it can be in the times we live in.  

 

Their poverty alleviation programmes put the rest of the world to shame.   

Especially under Xi, they have invested heavily in reducing poverty and a 100 million have been uplifted in the last decade alone.

 

Japan has had an ageing/declining population since the 80's and they are doing fine. 

 

The challenge for the Chinese would be to reorganise production towards social goods within China rather than desperately trying to remain competitive in terms of labour arbitrage which they are bound to lose to states that can produce at a much cheaper cost. 

 

They are much better placed to do this than any other 3rd world country .

 

Also, their more sympathetic lending practices(compared to the West)should give them access to both resources and markets across Asia/Africa/Eastern Europe and Latin America - who are all, by and large fed up of the Bretton Woods institutions and their slavery/US military interventions etc.