BCCI says a big F You to the MRF pace academy for all their great work!

[Fontaine]

How dumb is this? After decades of experience, first hand knowledge and a pedigree of training pace prospects as well as helping international bowling stars, what do the MRF Pace Academy get in return? A big no thank you and piss off from the BCCI. Now they are telling the Indian bowlers that the same coaches who helped turn their potential into performance are off bounds! How the hell do you tell a professional athlete where he can and cannot train?

http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/328705._.html

OLD SCHOOL NEW BEGINNINGS Sandeep DwivediPosted online: Sunday, June 29, 2008 at 1056 hrs Print Email Related Stories For Lillee, it’s still the same SHOT IN THE BACK For 20 years, the MRF Pace Academy has been shaping uncut stones into fast bowling gems. But the future looks uncertain after the BCCI cut off all links with the home of fast bowling in India. Sandeep Dwivedi travels to Chennai to find out how they’re dealing with the snub GANESH is a humble, unassuming man. But for someone who doesn’t know what he does for a living, he might come across as a man in the habit of name-dropping. In the living room of his home, he speaks about Sachin Tendulkar’s love for dahi vada. While showing off his book collection, he talks about Javagal Srinath’s tendency to borrow cricket literature and forget about it. Steve Waugh isn’t a mere writer on his bookshelf, but someone who he has accompanied on the philanthropic cricketer’s trip to the home of spastic children. He proudly displays a mini autograph bat with signatures of Denis Lillee, Jeff Thomson, Brett Lee and Michael Holding. For effect, he adds, “there aren’t many bats around the world with so many Test wickets on them.” But Ganesh isn’t being pompous. When you have lived at R-45, 15th Street, Annanagad in Chennai for the last 13 years, brushing shoulders with stars is an everyday affair. The above location has been in the address books of several past and present cricket stars as this happens to be the home for MRF Pace Foundation trainees. As for Ganesh, he is the long-standing warden here. As one looks at the present occupants of this house of pacers noisily enjoying the lunch in the dinning room lined with pictures of the legends of the game, not one face looks familiar. They are promising juniors or Ranji players, who dream of emulating several internationals who have sat at the same table in this 20-year-old institution. Fourteen MRF products have played for India and international stars such as Chaminda Vaas, Mohammad Asif, Mitchell Johnson and Simon Jones have fond memories of their trips here. But now, the foundation finds itself at the crossroads. 2008 has brought about a few changes. Aussie legend Denis Lillee trains the bunch of fringe players, but TA Sekar, the chief coach and the face of the foundation in India since inception, isn’t by his side. Earlier this year, Sekar parted ways with MRF as GMR signed him to coach the Delhi Daredevils IPL side. Also missing from Lillee’s huddle are India’s national team pacers, who usually turned to MRF whenever they were out of the team, dealing with bowling flaws or preparing for the season ahead. The BCCI’s recent diktat to its players happens to be reason for this. MRF is now out of bounds. The cash-rich body, after feeding from the fertile pace factory during its modest days, has altered the travel destination to Bangalore now. Ambitious plans are afoot at the National Cricket Academy these days. Sunil Dev, a senior member of BCCI’s NCA committee, minces no words. “We have asked our cricketers to stay away from the MRF Pace Foundation. During the off-season, future players and even those who aren’t on international duty will now spend time at the NCA, where we have appointed a bowling coach in B Arun. And once the NCA is shifted to a bigger place, we intend to start a specialised pace wing as well.”

>> Who the hell is Sunil Dev and B Arun and what experience do they have with international standard pace bowling? Obviously these c**ts don't know **** because they haven't even started a specialised pace wing and they're already asking these bowlers no to go to the MRF academy. So when does this pace wing start up? Three months, 6 months, how many years? Surely it would have been better to have all the facilities coaches etc already there before you tell the bowlers to stop going to the MRF? F**K these pencil pushing, desk jockies who have zero international bowling experience. I hope they get cancer of the rectum.

But with Lillee around, and the bowling coach of the Ashes victory fame, Troy Cooley, about to land at MRF, there are a few helpless calls being made from Bangalore to Chennai. With or without the stars, it’s business as usual at the MRF Pace Foundation. There is certainly a feeling of hurt about the BCCI snub, but S Senthilnathan, who took over from Sekar, puts fears about the institution losing its relevance to rest. “This institution came into existence 20 years back with the intention of producing fast bowlers. And it will continue to do so. If we can train players who will make it to the Indian team, that’s all we want. That’s our only aim,” he says. It’s quite clear that his posture isn’t aggressive as he repeatedly refers to the BCCI as the parent body. “In case they want us to help them in the future, we will welcome the move with open arms,” says Senthil, with a grin this time. Opinion divided The NCA’s proactive role in the development of senior cricket comes after two high-profile appointments: Dav Whatmore as the director of operations and Ravi Shastri as the chairman. It isn’t a finishing school for junior cricketers anymore, but the happening hub for the national team. But Dev does say that the committee had been divided when it came to the decision on MRF. “Ravi and Whatmore were of the opinion that MRF Pace Foundation should be in the loop, but the others in the committee shot down the suggestion,” he says. Explaining the reason for the decision, Dev says that the BCCI now wants a central coaching system where the players get uniform advice. “Earlier, there have been cases when a bowler got confused by too many suggestions. Now, since we have the resources, we can avoid such a situation,” he says. Interestingly, that was one problems that MRF faced in the past. Ask Lillee if he had seen his wards returning to MRF with flaws in their techniques once they spent time with the state or national coaches and it brings a smile to his face. “Yes it happens, but not all the time. These guys are smart. They know what is best for them, they know the difference between good and bad advice,” he says. Apparently, Irfan Pathan didn’t use the filter and that meant a career-threatening slump. He returned to MRF and sorted out his problems and that, according to Sekar, was one of the high points of his coaching career. “Over the years, trust develops between coaches and wards. Whatever you say, the player will return to the place where he knows things will be sorted out for him. Even before leaving for Pakistan, Irfan was here. But since I wasn’t connected to MRF, I took him to a different net to practice,” he says. Top-class facilities Lillee gives another reason behind the MRF products returning to their first school despite graduating to the bigger league. “The facilities here are top-class. They have a home to stay where all their needs are taken care of. Besides, I am not a coach with a frown on my face. Who wouldn’t like to be in such an atmosphere,” he asks. The atmosphere that Lillee speaks about is quite evident in the dinning room as the trainees, after a luxury ride in the coach from the net session, zero in on the aromatic hot cases placed on table. The dietician has ordered pasta today, besides a spread that caters to the taste buds of players with varied eating habits. Though the NCA has improved over the years, Harbhajan Singh’s famous outburst over the quality of food there, the one that got him suspended, comes to the mind. As the plates get empty, one catches up with Salim Veragi, Baroda’s next big pace find who hails from a village not far from Munaf Patel’s Ikhar. “I have improved immensely after the stint here. Like Munaf, the association sent me here and I know why now. There’s nothing to complain,” he says. He quickly adds that trainer Ramji’s 5 km jog, 400 meter sprint and the never ending drills are punishing. Lunch hour is over and the warden Ganesh shouts out that it’s time to leave. Not being among stars might see Ganesh stop throwing names for a while. But, maybe, in the future he’ll speak about a present-day occupant of R-45 who just couldn’t resist a plateful of pasta.

[Fontaine]

I apologize for my angry language in my previous post, but I'm extremely passionate about our bowling. Especially now that we have so many talented prospects who are just beginning their international careers. The right kind of advice, guidance and mentoring could allow guys like RP, Pathan, Ishant, PK etc to turn into matchwinners for us or without this guidance and nurture, the next wasted Indian bowling prospect who was burnt out and misused. By the way just in case anybody was uncertain about my sentiments on this latest move by the BCCI, let me just make it clear: I hope Sunil Dev and the rest of the committee that decided to exclude the most experienced and one of the most successfull bowling resources in the subcontinent in the MRF academy from the Indian cricket team, well, I hope they get cancer of the genitals and die a very painful slow death.

[THX_1138]

is there some particular reason for this rift? what was the motivation behind the formation of the NCA?

[Fontaine]

is there some particular reason for this rift? what was the motivation behind the formation of the NCA?

Some particular reason? No that would make far too much sense for the BCCI: http://www.indianexpress.com/sunday/story/328707.html BCCI decision due to petty politics: Sekar For someone who has had a 20-year-old association with the MRF Pace Foundation, TA Sekar feels strange not accompanying old friend Denis Lillee to the ground anymore. Sekar gets nostalgic about the days he spent with MRF, but is disgusted with the BCCI stand on not allowing its pacers to train at the pace foundation. How’s life after the foundation? It does seem different. But after 2004, when I saw four MRF trainees play for India at the same time, I thought I had achieved the goal for which the foundation was started. After that, I needed a new challenge. Will the BCCI’s proposed pace wing have an impact on the foundation? It is very easy to say the NCA will have a fast bowling wing, but after one year, one has to see what the bowlers have to say about it. Besides, the BCCI is a very unpredictable body. It might change or it might continue taking the foundation’s help. What about them not allowing players to train at the foundation? That’s due to petty politics in the board. Previously, when the foundation was set up, the whole of north zone used to be adviced to stay away. Bowlers from Punjab didn’t want to come. This happened for a long time. But gradually, people realised they were getting inputs. With someone like Lillee here, is it right to stop pacers from coming to him? It is a well-known fact that Lillee is hot property when it comes to coaching pacers. He is something phenomenal. One look at the pacer and he can say where the problem lies. He gives very simple solutions to complex problems. Lets see who the BCCI gets for their pace wing.

[Fontaine]

The BCCI can create a hundred NCAs as far as I care. But to issue a statement to the Indian bowlers and say that they cannot associate or train with the MRF is bullshit especially when many players like RP, Pathan, etc go there for advice and guidance. Each person has different relationships and levels of experience and trust with coaches. The NCA doesn't even have a full time bowling coach? Who the hell is supposed to help these young bowlers? It's embaressingly stupid and short sighted especially with the Champions trophy coming up.

[Dhondy]

The MRF will survive, with or without the BCCI. The BCCI may wean away the national players, but ask yourself, Fontaine, was it MRF's premise to fine tune the action of bowlers who may be considered finished products anyway? Nope. MRF has always specialised in improving bowlers who are work in progress, teach them the basics of bowling, keep free of injuries, maintain an optimum weight and so on. Of course, the publicists go to town when an Irfan Pathan gives interviews on how Sekhar sorted out his action, but that really is a miniscule portion of what MRF does. Pay heed also to the concept of the too many cooks ideology. If BCCI are going to invest in a top class coaching facility at the NCA, it simply doesn't make sense to replicate what's on offer. It shouldn't be too much trouble to get Lillee or Cooley (isn't a full time coach with the Aussies?) to work in an advisory capacity at the NCA. On another note, geographically, with most aspiring fast bowlers coming from the North, should MRF think of migrating northwards? Maybe that was the real reason why the Punjabis kept away.

[flamy]

Bullcrap from BCCI bastards as usual. I really really hope this gets sorted out. Now I know how the Pakis feel with their PCB.

[Fontaine]

The MRF will survive, with or without the BCCI. The BCCI may wean away the national players, but ask yourself, Fontaine, was it MRF's premise to fine tune the action of bowlers who may be considered finished products anyway? Nope. MRF has always specialised in improving bowlers who are work in progress, teach them the basics of bowling, keep free of injuries, maintain an optimum weight and so on. Of course, the publicists go to town when an Irfan Pathan gives interviews on how Sekhar sorted out his action, but that really is a miniscule portion of what MRF does.

1. That is incorrect. Agarkar, Pathan, Vaas, Asif, Brett Lee, James Franklyn, Jermaine Lawson and more have visited the MRF academy when they were international bowlers for help and all have said it has benefitted them tremendously because the coaches like Lillee have the expertise, history and experience. Coaches like Tom Moody have in the past sent tapes (when players were on tours and couldn't go to the MRF) so coaches like Sekar/Lillee can analyse specific aspects of swing bowling and advise corrective measures. Apart from the above, the West Indian, Sri Lankan, English counties, Australian cricketing boards all seek advice and feedback on their bowlers from the MRF on a continual basis or at least did while Sekhar was there.

Pay heed also to the concept of the too many cooks ideology. If BCCI are going to invest in a top class coaching facility at the NCA, it simply doesn't make sense to replicate what's on offer. It shouldn't be too much trouble to get Lillee or Cooley (isn't a full time coach with the Aussies?) to work in an advisory capacity at the NCA. On another note, geographically, with most aspiring fast bowlers coming from the North, should MRF think of migrating northwards? Maybe that was the real reason why the Punjabis kept away.

You're not looking at the big picture. Lillee has already been asked by the English, West Indian, Sri Lankan cricketing bodies for advice and guidance from specific tours to individual players. What kind of message does this latest bullshit move from the BCCI send to the MRF? Yeah, you can help develop pace bowlers but you can't help them once their internationals. So how long till Sri Lanka comes along and offer Lillee full access and a big contract to be part of their own team? And what about coaching? Prasad spent a lot of time with the MRF and getting guidance from Lillee so now if he needs help with an Indian bowler can he go to the same guys in the MRF that he trusts? So every other coach from Sri Lanka, Bangladesh etc can send tapes, bowlers and get advice from Lillee and others in the MRF but our own freaking team can't? And finally, it took 20 years for the MRF foundation to get to a stage of being proffessionally run, and producing good bowlers. How can you expect the NCA to hit the ground running? It's going to take the NCA years to get up to the level of the MRF if they can do it at all in the first place. Instead of having a backup plan and a long term view and saying: "Ok, we want a professional academy for our bowlers in the NCA but it's not setup yet, we have no coaches etc etc. Let's set all that up FIRST and send some senior bowlers/coaches there to assess whether it can replace the MRF etc, and once it's up to standards AND the bowlers/coaches are happy with the facilities, coaches, THEN we can state that our bowlers should go there and NOT the MRF!" Of course that makes far too much sense. Once again, F*** you Sunil Dev and the BCCI committee.

[Fontaine]

If BCCI are going to invest in a top class coaching facility at the NCA' date=' it simply doesn't make sense to replicate what's on offer. It shouldn't be too much trouble to get Lillee or Cooley (isn't a full time coach with the Aussies?) to work in an advisory capacity at the NCA.[/quote'] That's naive. Cooley was already visiting the MRF. You think Lillee and Cooley don't know this is a bullshit move by the BCCI? What would you do if you were a world renowned bowling coach. Work in the MRF like they already have been doing that has world class facilities, respect of international coaches/organisations and has a pedigree of success, and all available resources and most importantly, NOT RUN by some lumbering, bureacratic, money first organisation like the Indian cricket board or go to the BCCI sponsored facility in the NCA that has no history, no pace wing setup and ONLY supports Indian pace bowlers who'll be there between tours. ANYBODY they (NCA) get as a bowling coach will be a 2nd or 3rd class option. THAT'S my point.

[Dhondy]

What would you do if you were a world renowned bowling coach. Work in the MRF like they already have been doing that has world class facilities, respect of international coaches/organisations and has a pedigree of success, and all available resources and most importantly, NOT RUN by some lumbering, bureacratic, money first organisation like the Indian cricket board or go to the BCCI sponsored facility in the NCA that has no history, no pace wing setup and ONLY supports Indian pace bowlers who'll be there between tours.

I'd move if somebody paid me a truckload of money. To expect anything else...now, that's naive.

[sandtest]

Didn't read entire article, but who knows, BCCI can develop NCA into bigger thing than MRF! By now BCCIs policy is clear -- they wish for complete monopoly in every field, be it T20 or television broadcasting or some training academy. As they say -- " Don't steal, government hates competition". So does BCCI, it too hates competition. And why it should depend on any external agency, when it has all money and infrastructure to create one MRF in every state of India! Throw money and those Lillee and Cooley will work for BCCI same way like so many Indian "IT-coolies" work for US companies!

[Dhondy]

Didn't read entire article, but who knows, BCCI can develop NCA into bigger thing than MRF! By now BCCIs policy is clear -- they wish for complete monopoly in every field, be it T20 or television broadcasting or some training academy. As they say -- " Don't steal, government hates competition". So does BCCI, it too hates competition. And why it should depend on any external agency, when it has all money and infrastructure to create one MRF in every state of India! Throw money and those Lillee and Cooley will work for BCCI same way like so many Indian "IT-coolies" work for US companies!

That's a pretty good post, Sandtest. Yup, I think Fontaine's anger would be assuaged if he accepted what BCCI's ethos are. 1. Money buys everything. If it doesn't buy something, pay more. 2. There's no limit to how much money you need. The more the better. And don't let anything come in the way. Not establishment, nor tradition, certainly not principles. 3. A bit of double standards along the way did nobody no harm (as long as it doesn't harm me, the BCCI). 4. Ruthlessly step on any sort of competition, and extinguish the last spark of dissent from without my portals. 5. Sit back, let's make an old boys club and get Shukla-ji to give interviews on our behalf.

[Sachinism]

BCCI have always had a problem with the MRF pace academy, I heard a lot of the players used to sneak away to visit it without informing BCCI

[Fontaine]

I'd move if somebody paid me a truckload of money. To expect anything else...now' date=' that's naive.[/quote'] Truckload of money? Then you must think Lillee and Cooley are getting paid peanuts! :hysterical: Not everything is about money. There's a reason why Captains and Coaches from Pakistand to India are hard to find and it isn't because money's no object.

[Fontaine]

That's a pretty good post, Sandtest. Yup, I think Fontaine's anger would be assuaged if he accepted what BCCI's ethos are. 1. Money buys everything. If it doesn't buy something, pay more. 2. There's no limit to how much money you need. The more the better. And don't let anything come in the way. Not establishment, nor tradition, certainly not principles. 3. A bit of double standards along the way did nobody no harm (as long as it doesn't harm me, the BCCI). 4. Ruthlessly step on any sort of competition, and extinguish the last spark of dissent from without my portals. 5. Sit back, let's make an old boys club and get Shukla-ji to give interviews on our behalf.

Yup, THAT MUST be why the BCCI has done such a good job finding, nurturing and developing fast bowling talent in the Indian team for the past decade right? :haha: Is there any Indian bowler that hasn't been developed by the MRF on the team/squad apart from Agarkar? I'm not saying the NCA WON'T BE successful. I'm saying it's going to take time to get it up the level of the MRF, years maybe decades because of the infrastructure, resources, coaches and facilities. Why deprive the bowlers of the MRF during that time? IF the BCCI truely had the best interests of the bowlers (and not their own) then both options would be available. But these ****wits can barely do their own job right, how can we expect them to help do someone else's?

[sandtest]

Yup, THAT MUST be why the BCCI has done such a good job finding, nurturing and developing fast bowling talent in the Indian team for the past decade right? :haha:

Now your concern is justified, my friend. I will not mind BCCI monopolizing Cricket in India as it is beyond control anyway. But I will concede lack of great results is due to Baboodom/red tape within BCCI, a typical characteristic of Indian government organizations. This red tape/Baboodom is biting us severely as you can see even after BCCI has all money and power it takes to enhance quality of Cricket in India, it still unable to Match Aussie domestic set-up.

[msb1991]

I initially thought that this is a poor move by the BCCI to cut ties with the MRF Pace Foundation. However, the decision does make some sense to prevent bowlers recieving too much conflicting advice. The BCCI are correct to attempt to create a uniform directive for fast bowlers as the biomechanics of such is so complex that you can get several different schools of thinking from equally qualified coaches. However, what sets Dennis Lillee apart is that he has created and run studies into fast bowlers, contrasting quicker and slower bowlers to attempt to find out what makes a quick bowler different from a medium bowler - he has also concentrated on the physical build, paying attention to fast and slow twitch muscles - the former make it easier to bowl quicker but both Akhtar and Gillespie possess slow twitch muscles and so it is not impossible to bowl 150kph or 160kph with slow twitch muscles. Theories which are proved through scientific study cannot be rebuked as incorrect and many of Lillee's theories have been proven and tried throughout his own career. Dennis Lillee is the number one fast bowling coach in the world in terms of coaching reputation and this reputation is not gained for nothing. It is foolish of the BCCI to cut a resource that they have with such a famous and outstanding coach. The article notes that TA Sekhar is no longer a coach of the MRF Pace Foundation due to committments with Delhi Daredevils. However, I suspect that the BCCI will look to hire him as the head of their NCA Fast Bowling wing. I am unsure whether they will be able to capture Dennis Lillee though, as he has previously shown unwillingness to be involved in an official venture for any country, especially one which is not his home country. In their attempt to create a uniform fast bowling coaching process, I hope they create an uniform directive too, outlining the priorities, the techniques...etc. I would be thrilled also if the BCCI could partake in scientific biomechanical studies too in an attempt to 'break the mould' of fast bowling coaching and add some new techniques to the mix. If they could work with Lillee for a new scientific study, it could herald an era of long term fast bowling improvements among Indian bowlers. ...or perhaps I am too optimistic. EDIT: One must also not forget the important role that MRF Pace Foundation has in spotting talent as all talented youngsters from all over India gather to join this one foundation and so it is a great way to scout fast bowling talent in a quick and efficient way.

[Fontaine]

I initially thought that this is a poor move by the BCCI to cut ties with the MRF Pace Foundation. However, the decision does make some sense to prevent bowlers recieving too much conflicting advice. The BCCI are correct to attempt to create a uniform directive for fast bowlers as the biomechanics of such is so complex that you can get several different schools of thinking from equally qualified coaches. However, what sets Dennis Lillee apart is that he has created and run studies into fast bowlers, contrasting quicker and slower bowlers to attempt to find out what makes a quick bowler different from a medium bowler - he has also concentrated on the physical build, paying attention to fast and slow twitch muscles - the former make it easier to bowl quicker but both Akhtar and Gillespie possess slow twitch muscles and so it is not impossible to bowl 150kph or 160kph with slow twitch muscles. Theories which are proved through scientific study cannot be rebuked as incorrect and many of Lillee's theories have been proven and tried throughout his own career. Dennis Lillee is the number one fast bowling coach in the world in terms of coaching reputation and this reputation is not gained for nothing. It is foolish of the BCCI to cut a resource that they have with such a famous and outstanding coach. The article notes that TA Sekhar is no longer a coach of the MRF Pace Foundation due to committments with Delhi Daredevils. However, I suspect that the BCCI will look to hire him as the head of their NCA Fast Bowling wing. I am unsure whether they will be able to capture Dennis Lillee though, as he has previously shown unwillingness to be involved in an official venture for any country, especially one which is not his home country. In their attempt to create a uniform fast bowling coaching process, I hope they create an uniform directive too, outlining the priorities, the techniques...etc. I would be thrilled also if the BCCI could partake in scientific biomechanical studies too in an attempt to 'break the mould' of fast bowling coaching and add some new techniques to the mix. If they could work with Lillee for a new scientific study, it could herald an era of long term fast bowling improvements among Indian bowlers. ...or perhaps I am too optimistic. EDIT: One must also not forget the important role that MRF Pace Foundation has in spotting talent as all talented youngsters from all over India gather to join this one foundation and so it is a great way to scout fast bowling talent in a quick and efficient way.

Thank you for your deep analysis, I appreciate your thoughts.

[msb1991]

Thank you for your deep analysis' date=' I appreciate your thoughts.[/quote'] Thanks

[Fontaine]

The article notes that TA Sekhar is no longer a coach of the MRF Pace Foundation due to committments with Delhi Daredevils.

Does anyone else have any insight on this? I mean this makes no sense to me. The IPL season is what? A couple of weeks? Why would a well known bowling coach rule himself out of the MRF when the IPL season is just a couple of weeks? It's like saying Sreesanth or Y Pathan rule themselves out of Indian team for the entire calendar year because of the IPL? I don't really care who they hire in the NCA. This move is bound to fail for the pace bowlers.