singhvivek141 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: Correction here, K9 is South Korean and is under licensed production so it can't be produced at will without placing orders. We have placed additional orders and Rajnath Singh was in South Korea this week to talk about it. K9 Vajra,SU30MKI,Drishti or C295, Scorpene and now PULS etc are not Indian platforms and are under licensed production which is only for mere assembly unit and we have no IP rights. This below covers mostly everything that's indigenous and what's under licensed production and screwdrivergiri Screwdrivergiri isn't a bad thing, if we can learn and absorb from them. Every country has done some amount of screwdrivergiri in the pas We learned from Chakra and that learnings are getting incorporated in SSBN and SSN programs. MDL and other shipyards learned and are able to produce surface ships with ease. P76 is built based on the learnings of Scorpene and Sindhughosh class. Arjun Tank and Zorawar is another example which we built based on learnings from T72 (Ajeya) and T90 (bheesma) K9 Vajra is self propelled, while ATAGS which is indigenous is towed. In future, if we somehow make a variant of self towing ATAGS then K9 Vajra too can be replaced.
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 37 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Screwdrivergiri isn't a bad thing, if we can learn and absorb from them. Every country has done some amount of screwdrivergiri in the pas We learned from Chakra and that learnings are getting incorporated in SSBN and SSN programs. MDL and other shipyards learned and are able to produce surface ships with ease. P76 is built based on the learnings of Scorpene and Sindhughosh class. Arjun Tank and Zorawar is another example which we built based on learnings from T72 (Ajeya) and T90 (bheesma) K9 Vajra is self propelled, while ATAGS which is indigenous is towed. In future, if we somehow make a variant of self towing ATAGS then K9 Vajra too can be replaced. SPH shouldn't be difficult to make domestically But R&D investment is not what out Private players do that's the issue. Tata is license building airbus product while our own RTA-90 project needed $2 billion funding. TATA is doing jack sh*t despite getting the technical know how. Adani is making licenced Drishti drones, no incentive for domestic R&D. Turkiye which is known screwdrivergiri expert would have done that instead. That's how they got their own T929 attack helicopter and we are bleeding ourselves with American Apaches coz both HAL TASL failed badly. And their indigenous 5th generation programs, UCAVs and even indigenous SSK program is going very smoothly. They have now even got their K9 Firtana's MK2 version ready now. Insane export potential. South Korea another successful screwdriver country. Bharat forge is so much better than these screwdriver fraudsters atp Unless and until R&D investment doesn't happens screwdrivergiri will keep happening and they will gave Indian names to hide the Sinister plans to kill IDDM. That's why Indian defence community was first outraged at seeing PULS and now with Sky striker some chomu came up with its Hindi translation and called it Vayu astra Sem 2 sem. Can't blame as they have seen IDDM sabotaged by same techniques for years now. Edited May 22 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted May 22 Posted May 22 1 hour ago, Lone Wolf said: Correction here, K9 is South Korean and is under licensed production so it can't be produced at will without placing orders. We have placed additional orders and Rajnath Singh was in South Korea this week to talk about it. K9 Vajra,SU30MKI,Drishti or C295, Scorpene and now PULS etc are not Indian platforms and are under licensed production which is only for mere assembly unit and we have no IP rights. This below covers mostly everything that's indigenous and what's under licensed production and screwdrivergiri in the fog of war i dont think they will wait for approval. They will manufacture first and pay later
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 15 minutes ago, G_B_ said: in the fog of war i dont think they will wait for approval. They will manufacture first and pay later During fog of war relying on imported sub-assemblies (such as engines, chips, and sensors) means supply lines can easily be severed by a blockade or hostile international actors. The supplying OEM itself can also do that either under influence or its own agenda. Without IP independence any reprogramming is virtually impossible as well Edited May 22 by Lone Wolf
G_B_ Posted May 22 Posted May 22 26 minutes ago, Lone Wolf said: During fog of war relying on imported sub-assemblies (such as engines, chips, and sensors) means supply lines can easily be severed by a blockade or hostile international actors. The supplying OEM itself can also do that either under influence or its own agenda. Without IP independence any reprogramming is virtually impossible as well So for reference the k9 is aiming for 100% indegenous content or local manufacturing. What does that imply.
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 27 minutes ago, G_B_ said: So for reference the k9 is aiming for 100% indegenous content or local manufacturing. What does that imply. As long is K9 is under licensed production it won't happen. Follow on order of 2025 has "promised" 60% indigenous content. The propulsion Engine, fire control, fully automatic ammunition & turret drive mechanisms mostly are OEM dependent. With it being superhit in Ukraine war and under heavy demand NATO allies would soon restrict its export as well. The Mk2 iteration isn't coming any time soon unless we start somewhere Edited May 22 by Lone Wolf G_B_ 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 6 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: As long is K9 is under licensed production it won't happen. Follow on order of 2025 has "promised" 60% indigenous content. The propulsion Engine, fire control, fully automatic ammunition & turret drive mechanisms mostly are OEM dependent. With it being superhit in Ukraine war and under heavy demand NATO allies would soon restrict its export as well. The Mk2 iteration isn't coming any time soon unless we start somewhere 6 hours ago, G_B_ said: So for reference the k9 is aiming for 100% indegenous content or local manufacturing. What does that imply. Indigenous capability will take time to develop, there is no doubt about that. We aren't there yet, and before 2040 I don't think we'll see any radical change. HAL being in inception since freedom has so far initiated only 2 desi airplanes...first Marut and now Tejas. We have slowly transitioning, but unless AMCA and TEDBF programs don't achieve massive success, our Airforce won't be able to move ahead with the heavy amount of localization. More than the Tejas, it's these two programs and Ghatak with kaveri which will be the massive pivot for our defence industry. Same goes for Army, while Mahindra and Bharat Forge have made tanks and SPV vehicles, L&T has made Zorawar. We're still relying on Russian made Bheesma and Ajeya tanks for majority of our needs. Private Sector was kept away from Defence for decades, it'll take time to build up. Even Indian Navy, which is the most atmirbhar wing of armed forces...they use guns, radars and so many torpedoes of foreign origin. It's only now when Varunastra, Takshak and Shyena has gained prominence, we're able to increase the %. Scorpenes don't even use desi torpedoes, we were dependent on Naval Group for F21 and Black Shark as Varunastra was too big for it. Takshak is currently planned to integrate with Scorpenes as we've the ToT from France for this submarines. But that'll take time. Unfortunately, that's one thing which is not in our favour as China has become a manufacturing powerhouse due to the unprecedented support they got from US since 1960s...we've started pretty late and we don't have any "ally" which can back us indefinitely... Edited May 22 by singhvivek141 Lone Wolf and G_B_ 1 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 BTW...this is interesting. What are these 45 ships ? 17B if it starts now can expect the delivery from 3-4 years. So does 28A. P18 will take lot of time, so is P77, P76 and P75I. Is something under the backdoor which we're not aware of ? Coz P17A will be done by this year.
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 (edited) 26 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: Pooks getting secret funding ? They will get surely those in future along with Turkish SSKs but in next decade only. As of now Turkish Drones and UCAVs are getting assembled in Pakistan. Next Indo Pak skirmish will be full of Turkish/Chinese/US-NATO systems vs Israeli/French/Russian/Korean+US arty stuff going at it. Edited May 22 by Lone Wolf
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 7 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: BTW...this is interesting. What are these 45 ships ? 17B if it starts now can expect the delivery from 3-4 years. So does 28A. P18 will take lot of time, so is P77, P76 and P75I. Is something under the backdoor which we're not aware of ? Coz P17A will be done by this year. Project 15B, P17A, NGMVs, OPVs at Goa Shipyard, ASW corvettes these are supposed to come as part of earlier order. Only SSK that can come in this short frame is Kalvari class.. or the vice admiral is counting P75I as well singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 22 Posted May 22 1 minute ago, Lone Wolf said: Project 15B, P17A, NGMVs, OPVs at Goa Shipyard, ASW corvettes these are supposed to come as part of earlier order. Only SSK that can come in this short frame is Kalvari class.. or the vice admiral is counting P75I as well P15B is done...INS Surat was the last. P17A...I think only one ship is left "Vindhyagiri"...rest all are handed over to IN. Nilgiri, Udaygiri, Himgiri, Taragiri, Dunagiri and Mahendragiri all are delivered.
Lone Wolf Posted May 22 Posted May 22 6 minutes ago, singhvivek141 said: P15B is done...INS Surat was the last. P17A...I think only one ship is left "Vindhyagiri"...rest all are handed over to IN. Nilgiri, Udaygiri, Himgiri, Taragiri, Dunagiri and Mahendragiri all are delivered. MoD site says MDL is constructing Scorpene class subs https://www.mod.gov.in/dod/en/faqs/q-1-what-are-current-force-levels-indian-navy-what-are-ongoing-projects-what-steps-are-being singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 23 Posted May 23 9 hours ago, Lone Wolf said: MoD site says MDL is constructing Scorpene class subs https://www.mod.gov.in/dod/en/faqs/q-1-what-are-current-force-levels-indian-navy-what-are-ongoing-projects-what-steps-are-being Its not updated, Shivalik class (P17) was delivered a decade back. P15B is long done, so is Scorpene class. Lone Wolf 1
G_B_ Posted May 23 Posted May 23 https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/defence/45-warships-will-be-delivered-in-3-4-yrs-nod-given-for-195-more-naval-vessels-vice-admiral/articleshow/131252892.cms Building up nicely singhvivek141 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 23 Posted May 23 5 hours ago, G_B_ said: https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/defence/45-warships-will-be-delivered-in-3-4-yrs-nod-given-for-195-more-naval-vessels-vice-admiral/articleshow/131252892.cms Building up nicely It's my dream to see Indian Navy and Coastguard ships patrolling in the IOR region. They should be visible to every ship passing from Strait of Malacca to Bay of Bengal to the Gulf of Saurashtra. Just like Chinese submarines patrol in IOR during every missile test, we should also have our submarines and ships roaming in South China sea and keeping a close surveillance on the Chinese movement. Large fleet of ships which should utilize the unsinkable base in the Nicobar Island. Lone Wolf 1
singhvivek141 Posted May 23 Posted May 23 (edited) Naval AD system, which will be part of our Warships. Edited May 23 by singhvivek141
Lone Wolf Posted May 23 Posted May 23 The A330 MRTT is praised for its versatility, supporting both boom and hose-and-drogue refueling, and is used by 19 countries worldwide. Mostly European NATO though. Airbus is expanding its production capacity to meet rising global demand, with a new conversion center in Seville Spain.
Lone Wolf Posted May 23 Posted May 23 3 hours ago, singhvivek141 said: It's my dream to see Indian Navy and Coastguard ships patrolling in the IOR region. They should be visible to every ship passing from Strait of Malacca to Bay of Bengal to the Gulf of Saurashtra. Just like Chinese submarines patrol in IOR during every missile test, we should also have our submarines and ships roaming in South China sea and keeping a close surveillance on the Chinese movement. Large fleet of ships which should utilize the unsinkable base in the Nicobar Island. First priority is to secure IOR... 2040's will see current level of Chinese dominance in SCS in IOR region unless India ramps up its shipbuilding capacity and indigenous capabilities to a level that can deter them. Also I hope we secure a military base in Sri Lanka and maybe with even Kenya by that time. Both achievable in next 15 years. singhvivek141 1
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