Best ever spin bowlers from each country

[The Outsider]

With a huge spin contest on the cards in Sri Lanka, here is whom I would rate as the best ever test spinners from each country : 1. Australia - None other than Warne, perhaps the best of them all. Ironmonger and Grimmett were great spinners in their own right in the pre-war era and Benaud was more than a handy leg spinner himself but Warne's mystique, class, and the sheer volume of wickets he picked up makes him the hands down winner. 2. India - For his sheer tenacity and consistency, Kumble would win the race here despite a not so hot record outside India. Chandrasekhar would come in a close second though and would lose out mainly because he could be really erratic at times. Gupte and Prasanna would also find mentions in the honors list. 3. Pakistan - Seems to have been blighted by a few unfulfilled careers in Qadir, Mushtaq, Qasim, and Saqlain all of whom could conceivably have had much better records in different circumstances. Saqlain would pip Qadir in a neck to neck race primarily because of that one series he had in India. Watching Qadir was a lot of fun, nonetheless. 4. West Indies - In what essentially is a two horse race between Ramadhin and Gibbs, from what I have read of them, the choice would go to Ramadhin for overcoming many odds to become the first East Indian to represent WI and also for the fact that he played as part of an attack with very little support. Gibbs had some pretty decent bowlers to attack and work with but really my choice might just be masking my ignorance here. 5. New Zealand - Very little scope for discussion here, with Vettori the clear leader in a two person draw with Bracewell. 6. Sri Lanka - In a country supposedly famous for spin bowling the nearest competition Murali has would probably be the pedestrian Chandana or Herath. 7. South Africa - Besides Tayfield, of whom I know pretty much nothing except that he was a terror on "stickies", the pedestrian Paul Adams has been the only spinner of a quarter note from South Africa, so just on statistics and lack of any decent competition Tayfield it is. 8. England - Laker, Verity, and Underwood would be the front runners and I would have to go with Underwood for not benefiting as much from "stickies" as the other two and still managing a very good record for a spinner in times which were decidedly tilting towards the faster men.

[Chandan]

Good compilation Shwetabh. But are you sure that Kumble has been the best for India? are you taking only wickets plus longevity of player into account or are you giving some point to their talent as well? If so, how can you leave out Bedi from even a mention in the list? And I just can't comment on Tayfield, Underwood or Ramadhin because I've never seen even the clipping of their bowling. But is Vettori the best NZ have EVER had?

[The Outsider]

Good compilation Shwetabh. But are you sure that Kumble has been the best for India? are you taking only wickets plus longevity of player into account or are you giving some point to their talent as well? If so, how can you leave out Bedi from even a mention in the list?

Of course I can't be sure, it's just my selections and if someone chose Chandra over Kumble I wouldn't really object. But Bedi probably make it in number 5 in the list of Indian spinners with Kumble, Chandra, Gupte, and Prasanna all better than him, IMO. Maybe even Harbhajan if that guy can tighten up his act away from home in the future. From the footage I've seen he rarely looked like a bowler to run through a line up and in the pecking order I rank left arm orthodox spinners the lowest after leg spinners and off spinners. His SR is an atrocious 80+.

And I just can't comment on Tayfield, Underwood or Ramadhin because I've never seen even the clipping of their bowling. But is Vettori the best NZ have EVER had?

I've seen Underwood's. I think he is the bowler to have dismissed Gavaskar on the maximum number of occasions. Given the right conditions he was pretty deadly as he was almost a medium pace bowler. I can't even think of any other spinner worth his salt from NZ besides Vettori and Bracewell. As for Tayfield, Grimmett, Gibbs etc. I am just going on what I've read. Probably impossible to get their footage except for Gibbs.

[vadodaravictor]

South Africa also had Pat Symcox in 90s. Zimbabwe had Paul Strang.

[Mr. Wicket]

Agree with most of those picks, nice piece. England is perhaps a bit tougher than the rest to pick out of - Underwood benefited a lot from damp wickets as well (and was lethal on a sticky, according to a couple of autobio's I've read), but I'd have a hard time choosing between him, Laker and Verity. Maybe a bit of compassion might lean me to pick Verity, who did have the misfortune of bowling in the most batsman-friendly age there was. I'd agree with Saqlain as well over Qadir, who IMO benefited a good deal from some pretty helpful umpires for a lot of his home games - without whom his average would probably have been less flattering, and also struggled a great deal against the best spin-handling-batsmen of his time. Saqlain was a genius to watch at his best when he unleashed the doosra for the first time. Amazing control and cunning at his peak, the likes of which I don't think any other Pakistani spinner could match. Kumble for sheer heart, guts and the way he kept getting better and better with each year he played would also be my pick from India.

[DomainK]

Fully agree with Shwetabh there.

[mister]

India Kumble Pak Mushtaq Ahmed Sril Murli Bang Rafique,lol Eng Tufnell West Indies Chris Gayle Aus Warne Newz Vettori South Africa Paul Adams

[Ram]

Ramdhin over Lance Gibbs?

[coffee_rules]

Gibbs has the most wkts record until Lillee broke it. So, it would seem wrong not to name him the country's best, as he was pretty successful everywhere. FOr India, I would put Chandra ahead of Kumble because for 13 years since his debut, Kumble was sh1te abroad. Since 2002 headingley, he seemed to be doing quite the opposite. Qadir peaked better than Saqlain/Mushtaq. Qodir had the 80s WI team in knots (with the help of umpires or otherwise). I would rate Qadir over the modern breed.

[Kumar]

Yea agree that qadir was the best spin bowler from pakistan.

[The Outsider]

Gibbs has the most wkts record until Lillee broke it. So, it would seem wrong not to name him the country's best, as he was pretty successful everywhere.

Yeah, Ramadhin's choice was also about the odds he overcame to play and the fact that he bowled in a crap attack, but Gibbs has done nothing to be left out either.

FOr India, I would put Chandra ahead of Kumble because for 13 years since his debut, Kumble was sh1te abroad. Since 2002 headingley, he seemed to be doing quite the opposite.

Again, I won't grudge that choice. Chandra/Kumble choice is basically choosing the first among equals.

Qadir peaked better than Saqlain/Mushtaq. Qodir had the 80s WI team in knots (with the help of umpires or otherwise). I would rate Qadir over the modern breed.

I don't rate his performance agains the WI batting all that highly. For all the greatness that was around in the WI they were only occasionally challenged by wrist spin and always came out short. Heck, Hirwani ran through them at Madras. Moreover, Qadir was pretty much cleaned up by the Indians. Saqlain's performance against India would make him superior to Qadir, IMO. But again they were pretty close in the end and Qadir was surely more fun to watch as most wrist spinners are.

[Mr. Wicket]

Disagree on the last thing; Saqlain at peak was amazing to watch - more so than Qadir. He was no ordinary finger spinner. Saqlain did enough with his accuracy, flight and subtlety to sometimes remove the pitch from the equation altogether, when at his best. Qadir for the most part relied on friendlier conditions, and let's not forget the sorts of boosts his record got from the likes of Shakoor Rana (from tapes I've seen, there's a fair handful of wickets he was gifted at home). Back to Saqlain - the man was a genius. One who didn't make the most of his brains and talents, but a genius nonetheless with unbelievable potential and skill. Surprising how few plaudits are given to Sehwag for producing an innings of such calibre that it could destroy the career of one of the greatest finger spinners ever.

[Dravid]

rafiq- bangla :D

[coffee_rules]

Ray Price for Zim, troubled Tendulkar himself.

[kumble_rocks]

Good compilation Sir ! But would disagree with your picks and agree with Coffee_Rules for some countries . Gibbs over Ramadin for me . For India, I would call it a tie between Kumble and Chandra. Chandra had the better googly and he was more deceptive than Kumble. Also, I don't know how you can put Saqlain over Qadir. If we take talent , heart , grit and all the other factors into account , Qadir would edge out Saqlain in my opinion. This guy peaked early and faltered early. Between Jim Laker and Derek Underwood , I may go with Jim Laker although I have never seen him play but read a lot about him and his exploits against Aussies from my father. And you are right about Gavaskar being dismissed by Underwood most times. I think it is 12 , need to check howstat.

[coffee_rules]

Going bu some of the cricket history books Laker was a one trick pony while Underwood was more versatile. I would pick Underwood over Laker.

[Holysmoke]

Zim -> Paul Strang?

[Dravid]

bermuda- Legend Lerverok :D

[Guest dada_rocks]

No controversial pick thereby thread turning damp squib..:-D What should I discuss here , just agreed.

[Chandan]

Now we should discuss who are the present spinners from each country and how has spin bowling declined in most of the countries apart from maybe just Sri Lanka and even there the spinners fail to perform on all surfaces. But do I even remember all the present spinners from every country? I've already forgotten the name of the spinner who represented Australia vs WI few months back. Can anyone compile this list?