Stampede kills 145 Hindu worshippers in India

[kumble_rocks]

This is sad ! I don't understand why people risk their lives going to Pilgrimage be it this one , Haj etc .. You call on god and god call's you ! ( http://www.nationalpost.com/news/world/story.html?id=699524 Stampede kills 145 Hindu worshippers in India People stand near bodies outside the Naina Devi temple at Bilaspur in the northern Indian state of Himachal Pradesh on SundayStringer/ReutersPeople stand near bodies outside the Naina Devi temple at Bilaspur in the northern Indian state of Himachal Pradesh on Sunday CHANDIGARH, India -- At least 145 people, mostly women and children, were crushed to death under the feet of thousands of pilgrims in a stampede at a temple in northern India on Sunday, police said. Hindu worshippers, chanting and singing hymns, were snaking up a 4-km trail leading to a hill-top temple in Himachal Pradesh state when the stampede occurred. Police said the pilgrims might have panicked after heavy rains caused some loose stones from a retaining wall along the hilly trail to fall. The pilgrims started fleeing down the slope, breaking an iron side railing and trampling falling women and children under their feet, said Daljit Singh Manhas, a senior police officer. "We have confirmation now that 145 people have been killed," he told Reuters. "We found eight to 10 stones which had fallen off and probably scared the people, causing the stampede." At least 40 children and 45 women were among the dead, police and health department officials said. Thousands of worshippers had gathered at the temple in Bilaspur district to pray to a Hindu goddess during the annual festival. Authorities said at last 48 people were injured, but this figure could rise as dozens of people were admitted to private clinics as well. Witnesses said people jumped over broken railings and bodies to save themselves. Children lost their grip on their mothers' hands and were crushed under the feet of scared pilgrims. "Many children and women were shouting for help and I saw people tumbling down the hillside," pilgrim Dev Swarup, 48, told Reuters by telephone from Bilaspur. "There were rumours of boulders coming down on us and we all ran like the others," said Swarup, his voice choked with emotion. Slippers, torn clothes and bags with flowers and offerings lay along the narrow path winding up the hill, television pictures showed. People crowded into hospitals looking for injured relatives. A television channel showed a young woman pilgrim pleading for water in a corner as rescuers brought in more injured people on stretchers for treatment. More than 10,000 people were trying to get into the temple when the stampede began and police had been struggling desperately to keep the situation under control. "There were too many rumours, we tried our best to keep things under control but it went out of hand," one officer said. Most of the worshippers were from the neighbouring state of Punjab, and their numbers rose sharply at the weekend. Stampedes at temples are not uncommon in India where thousands of people gather to pray during festivals. In 2005, about 265 pilgrims were killed in a stampede near a temple in the western state of Maharashtra.

[Lurker]

Hindu pilgrimage are often very badly maintained. There is no facilities for the pilgrims and in a country like ours with such a huge large number of people this is recipe for disaster. I have seen many of such pilgrimage since I hail from UP/Bihar belt and truth be told I am surprised that we dont have this so very often.

[punjabi_khota]

**** man....I have been there twice. What a tragedy.

[Willow_on_fire]

very tragic...so many kids died too....RIP

[sandtest]

Rip

[sandtest]

Now this once again boils my blood to same old balatant biasedness against Hindus of India. Completely unacceptable crime of major Hindu temples in India under government control is committed right in front of our naked eyes and major chunk of money offerred in temples goes to government, while Mosques and Churches belong to their community groups/organizations. Every year government takes away millions of Rupees from famous and well visited temples all across India and spends nothing in upliftment of smaller temples which are poor in Infrastructure. What Kind of "secularism" is this practice here, hain? Why Hindu each year die in Hundreds and nooooo one except some of BJP folks raise a voice against this balatant oppression of Hindus in the name of secularism. And that too whenever someone raises the voice he is immediately termed as communal.:hatsoff:

[sandtest]

Imagine, if this systematic exploitation and looting of Hindus by taking away their temple money is stopped it will suresly benefit in various ways -- (1) Firstly Hindu Mutts and temple trust committees will get adequate funds for repair/ improvement in infrastructure, for example, construction of simple barriers and bars to regulate the huge rush of devotess and thus avoiding such accidents which results in mass deaths. (2) when bigger Hindu temples and Mutts are able to use their huge money on their own they can come up with various welfare schemes for poor and downtrodden in the community in adjoining areas. This will effectively control the poor peoples falling pray to preaching of evangelical missionaries who have a lot of money due to Western funding. And thus it will help in stopping soul-harvest and eventual demographic change like what happened in Nagaland and some north east tribal areas.

[sandtest]

An interesting fact about famous SiddhiVinayak Temple in Dadar Mumbai. Ex- Chief Minister of Maharashtra Abdul Rehman Antulay (a congressi) has served as trustee committee for this temple. Now imagine, can any Hindu serve at any position in a Madrassa or Mosque or a Chruch trust in India.....I am not talking about evil nationalist Hindu much hated by our p-sec media, Let's say appoint bonafide jeehadi sympathisers like Mullayam??? still a dream...:giggle:

[CC1981]

Imagine, if this systematic exploitation and looting of Hindus by taking away their temple money is stopped it will suresly benefit in various ways --

Err no. If anything, mosques and churches need to be levied with tax, not the hindu temples made tax exempt. Enough bull***** spending in the name of a bull***** god already. Any welfare and public education scheme for the nation needs to be routed through the government at the state or central level and not through the relgion-based nonsense. I'd much rather see CBSE or central planning get more funding than the saffron-mullahs of RSS who's idea of education involves teaching math and sciences along with the hindu goobledegook about God.

[sandtest]

Err no. If anything, mosques and churches need to be levied with tax, not the hindu temples made tax exempt.

Another idiotic twist. When you have no knowledge why pass hot air as "expert" arguement? It is not about Tax, Major Hindu temple trust is under direct control of respective State governments and money is taken away. While Mosques and Churches are free to spend their excessive money in preaching dawah and conversion, soul harvesting, evangelicalization. And whay you are ignoring the demographic change in Nagalnd in last 3 decades only due to convesrion...now their is critical mass of Evangelicals in Nagaland and they want a seperate state where Chrsit is the King in other word another Kashmir. Why Hindu trust are not freed to use their money to uplift tribal masses which are falling pray to Evangelical preaching?? Why commie journalists want to dis-integrate India by gradual demographic change?? Why when an evangelical preacher in Orissa is attacked it makes a headline in missionary funded IBN channel and there is not a word in Indian media when a Pastor in Kerala is arrested with 2.5 Crore rupees transferred illegaly from a Wetren source?? Except some vernacular newspaper like Dainik Jagran, English media purposefully tries to suppress the strory. Why this balatant biase? When Hindus will overcome this indoctrination by media and rise??...Perhaps never.

[CC1981]

It is not about Tax, Major Hindu temple trust is under direct control of respective State governments and money is taken away.

Good. My stance is, this should not be abolished, instead, extended to sites of worship of ALL religions.

And whay you are ignoring the demographic change in Nagalnd in last 3 decades only due to convesrion

I am not ignoring it. Unlike you, i don't see it as a cause of alarm. If certain # of people choose to be Christian, it certainly is their perogative and i am sure to many tribal nagas, its better to be considered Christian than put up with the hindi-speaking largely racist north-indians who call them chinkis and/or low castes. I have many friends (and some relatives) from the north-east. And while most of them are patriotic, many of them are not, because of categoric neglect at the hand of the central government as well as putting up with 50+ years of hindi cultural dominance and erosion of their cultural values at the onslaught of hindi-domination, backed by a hindi-centric central government. Forget conversion from one idiotic faith to another, i'd be hard pressed to provide a REAL reason as to why the north-east shouldn't break away from India, given that India has done far less for the north-east than the rest of the nation and is STILL culturally alienating the north-east.

Why Hindu trust are not freed to use their money to uplift tribal masses which are falling pray to Evangelical preaching??

Because it is a key source of govt. income and income from the trust is far more important than keeping up numbers and pandering to the evangelizing hindu-types.

Why commie journalists want to dis-integrate India by gradual demographic change??

It is not disintegration of India by demographic change due to religion- as long as it isnt Islam. India is a nation of Indians- the PEOPLE- whatever their religion/faith may be. Resurgence or diminishing of hinduism is NOT resurgence/diminishing of India. India is an entity that is greater and far more important than the so-called Sanatan Dharma. India doesnt exist to pander to one religion or another and i refuse to let India become a tool for religion based idiocies- be it for the hindus,muslims or christians. Indian govt. has NO obligation morally or otherwise to support ANY religion- it is a secular government by definition and if one religion rises or another falls, i have no problem with it, just so long as it isnt scraping the bottom of the barrel in the already logically devoid and intellectually stunted field of religion (ie, bottom of that decrepit barrel would be Islam).

Why when an evangelical preacher in Orissa is attacked it makes a headline in missionary funded IBN channel and there is not a word in Indian media when a Pastor in Kerala is arrested with 2.5 Crore rupees transferred illegaly from a Wetren source??

Bull- ***** argument. Not each and every act of misdemeanour is covered by the media. Psychos going on a killing rampage in the name of their God- be it Muslims or Hindus- need coverage. Just a petty two-time crook with money in his pocket does not. And there are plenty of hindu priest crooks who don't get coverage either. I am sure each and every act of hindu crookedness in religion and its entanglement with money isnt covered by the media either. No issue gets complete coverage, so using the whole line of 'why wasnt this covered and that covered' is utter idiocy and par for the course when it comes to your rantings.

Perhaps never.

Good. One less 'god' mumbo-jumbo led assinity and illogic to worry about.

[Brainfade]

Hindu pilgrimage are often very badly maintained. There is no facilities for the pilgrims and in a country like ours with such a huge large number of people this is recipe for disaster. I have seen many of such pilgrimage since I hail from UP/Bihar belt and truth be told I am surprised that we dont have this so very often.

Lurker, in many cases, it seems that pilgrims want to experience the struggle - the walk through difficult and dangerous terrain for darshan. The satisfaction of roughing it out enhances their spiritual experience. For instance, I have heard that there are 2 routes to get to the SabariMala temple in Kerala. 10s of 1000s of devotees walk the paved route (< 10 miles?), but there are some that walk the 40 km route through dangerous jungle. I have heard that the latter group believes that they'll be blessed more than the former group. Just a thought.

[Lurker]

Lurker, in many cases, it seems that pilgrims want to experience the struggle - the walk through difficult and dangerous terrain for darshan. The satisfaction of roughing it out enhances their spiritual experience. For instance, I have heard that there are 2 routes to get to the SabariMala temple in Kerala. 10s of 1000s of devotees walk the paved route (< 10 miles?), but there are some that walk the 40 km route through dangerous jungle. I have heard that the latter group believes that they'll be blessed more than the former group. Just a thought.

And a good thought that is too CA. Yes indeed many pilgrims think on those lines. And it is not only a Hindu phenomenon but cuts across religions. Many Muslims, for example, dont even roll back their tongue(least saliva goes inside the mouth) during month of fasting. Many Christians walk on knee to the respective churches. It is quite difficult to sway the followers from religious beleifs of this kind, not sure what Govt can do. I guess if the religious scholars send out messages against these that would help.

[CC1981]

Lurker, in many cases, it seems that pilgrims want to experience the struggle - the walk through difficult and dangerous terrain for darshan. The satisfaction of roughing it out enhances their spiritual experience. For instance, I have heard that there are 2 routes to get to the SabariMala temple in Kerala. 10s of 1000s of devotees walk the paved route (< 10 miles?), but there are some that walk the 40 km route through dangerous jungle. I have heard that the latter group believes that they'll be blessed more than the former group. Just a thought.

Very good point. But i don't see that point completely negating what Lurker was alluding to. We can still have adequately wide roads or where thats impossible and obvious maarg to jatras, police chowkis(to regulate traffic at choke points and thus minimise risk of stampedes). We can have a hospital around or atleast some emergency services ( the local area in most cases could use it anyways). The fanatics who want to walk barefeet or walk with a nail through his tongue or whatever can still go ahead and do that- if you want to make it a tough journey, you can come up with 293890218312 different ways of doing that. But we can still upgrade the safety and crowd management aspect of it significantly to minimise loss of life due to crowd confusion/mass panic etc. reasons.

[beetle]

This happens too often in India. There is no value for the life of the common man. How can this be allowed? Why should such places of worship not be closed till there is full proof arrangement? Why is there no accountability of the temple authorities,the administrators of the city? Is desh mein sab kuch chalta hai!This is the reason I have stopped going to temples.....

[triam]

This happens all the time in India, because there is no accountability. In Milton Friedman's words "There are 4 types of spending, 1. you spend your money on yourself, in this case you will care about the amount of money and the quality of the product you are spending on. 2. you spend your money for others, in this case you will care more about the amount than the quality. 3. you spend someone elses money on yourself, in this case you will care more about the quality than the amount. 4. And finally you spend someone else's money on someone else, in this case you neither care about the quality nor the amount of money. And this is what Governments do" So, the way you tackle the 4th situation is having accountability, and electing people with good track records etc, which is completely absent in Indian politics, hence we reap what we sow.

[Ram]

Sad news. Some of the temples need a massive infrastructure upgrade. The crowd can really stifling at times. I have had a few experiences when I was a boy, where I was literally crushed by the crowd around me It was a VERY unpleasant/terrifying experience.