Buying a flat in Mumbai - TOI's attempt to falisfy Shabana

[cowboysfan]

what is psec?

[Guest dada_rocks]

psuedo-secular.. Advani coined this word

[THX_1138]

what is psec?

a term coined by neoconservatives and well other dumb stuck up jackholes such as Advani to describe progressive, secular and democratic viewpoints. those who coined the term think its an insult, but well they are dumb stuck up jackholes with a fast diminishing political influence, so well... one could argue, "what do they know??"

[Guest dada_rocks]

a term coined by neoconservatives and well other dumb stuck up jackholes such as Advani to describe progressive' date=' secular and democratic viewpoints. those who coined the term think its an insult, but well they are dumb stuck up jackholes with a fast diminishing political influence, so well... one could argue, "what do they know??"[/quote'] Now u know what psec means look at this nutjobs outburst... *****holes are losing election afetr elction in india yet they soemhow have this delusion that their political graph is on rise:haha:

[Ram]

what is psec?

Anyone who is opposed to the concept 'my religion is better than yours', who hates all the divisions caused be religions, the hatred that is spread, is a p-sec! :haha:

[Guest dada_rocks]

It's mroe like anyone who is self-loathing indian hindu who goes on overdrive if hindus are to be censured but is conspicuous by its absense when criticims is to be delivered to some other religions.. For instance Shaban Azami.. lookat this dimwit she totally overlooked the event that any akashmiri pandits or hindu in kashmir wre vitism of islamic intolerance in her view everythign was hunky dory till amarnath shrine board fiasco.. i hope this example explains to those who are not pretending to asleep.....

[Guest dada_rocks]

Anyone who is opposed to the concept 'my religion is better than yours'' date=' who hates all the divisions caused be religions, the hatred that is spread, is a p-sec! :haha:[/quote'] yet these psecs hearts bleed for socalled reliiong of peace whose basic tenet is I am the best rest is crap .... either these guys have zilch knowledge about that religion or have serious reasoning disability:haha:

[punjabi_khota]

a term coined by neoconservatives and well other dumb stuck up jackholes such as Advani to describe progressive' date=' secular and democratic viewpoints. those who coined the term think its an insult, but well they are dumb stuck up jackholes with [b']a fast diminishing political influence, so well... one could argue, "what do they know??"

Haha...so thats a measure of worth of an ideology now ? So I take that the biyaatch Mayawati type poilitcs and ideology, with its ever increasing politcal influence is the way to go ?

[suraj]

I have lost all respect for Shabana Azmi

[suraj]

Shabana Azmi's response Why shoot the messenger? Things very rarely catch me by surprise any more. Yet I am taken completely unawares by the viciousness of the attack against me for a remark I made in a recent television interview that I was denied a house in Mumbai because I am a Muslim. I am being called ungrateful, wretched and even a liar. But these are the same people who applauded me and called me a hero when I took on Imam Bukhari. A few years ago, Imam Bukhari had given a fatwa to Indian Muslims to go to Afghanistan and wage jehad. In an outraged response, I had said on a TV programme that I would request the Prime Minister (at that time Atal Bihari Vajpayee) to air-drop Imam Bukhari into Khandahar so he could be the first to wage his jehad — this would solve his problem and ours too. So infuriated was the Imam that he called me unprintable names as well as a kafir and a blot on the Muslim community. It remains for me a matter of the highest honour that both Houses of Parliament issued a statement condemning the Imam's utterance. I was moved to tears and my heart burst with pride. It gave me the much required ammunition and strengthened my resolve to never keep quiet in the face of outbursts by fundamentalist elements. Each time I take on the Muslim fundamentalist, I am applauded and hailed as a moderate liberal Muslim. But I am more than just that. I am a moderate liberal Indian and am very proud of being so. India has one of the finest Constitutions in the world. The Constitution provides for all her citizens, irrespective of class, caste or gender to demand their rights within its framework without fear and with authority. In the same interview that has become the subject of such mud-slinging, I have also stated that the Indian Muslim feels safer in India than elsewhere because he has a stake and a space in the country's democracy. An ordinary Muslim can aspire to become the President of India, a Shah Rukh Khan or an Irfan Pathan. That the time has come for Muslims to stop looking at themselves only as victims and do some soul-searching on the need for reform within the community. Why then does only one remark get pulled out of the interview and become the subject of such acrimony? Would it not be fair to assume that implicit in this hue and cry is the desire to shut up the liberal voice and demand of Muslims who are successful, to be good Uncle Toms? Have I ever been asked to apologise to men when I've talked about discrimination against women? Have I been asked to apologise to the rich because I've talked about the need to alleviate poverty? Of course discrimination exists in some sections of our society -- against all kinds of minorities; religious (look at what routinely happens with the Dalits), against women (for God's sake we are killing our girl child even before she is born), against homosexuals (Section 377 of the penal code treats them like criminals). What is the point in denying it? We need to bring these issues in the open and draw courage from the fact that there are also very robust resistance groups in all sections of our society that are opposing this tooth and nail so there is absolutely no cause for despair. India is a country of contradictions. It is equally true that a Dalit can aspire to be a Mayawati (perhaps the most formidable politician today), a woman can aspire to be the Prime Minister or President, and that the Hindi film industry is being virtually ruled by the Khans. Alas, it is also true that I was denied a flat in cosmopolitan Mumbai because Javed and I are Muslims - it was not because we are film people - a very famous film star lives in the same society. It was not because we are non-vegetarians - the family we were to buy it from were themselves non-vegetarians. It was, we were told, by a shame-faced broker because we were Muslim! It happened not once but twice. It didn't come as a big surprise either because we knew of several people who had had similar experiences. This is why I find it so curious that so many people are reacting now as if this is some earth-shattering revelation. A TV channel, not so long ago, had carried an entire sting operation where a young couple posing as house-hunters were clearly told that they could not be given a house in the locality of their choice because they were Muslim. I personally know of at least a dozen such cases. Wake up guys. Get a reality check. Why shoot the messenger? Don't try to throttle the voice of the moderate liberal and brand her or him a communalist when she or he brings to light the fact that there are some genuine grievances that must be addressed. It can prove to be very dangerous. If the liberal moderate voice is silenced through canard, through innuendo, through intimidation, then the space will be left wide open only for the extremist and the hardliners. And they need to be defeated, whoever they may be. The fight today is not between the Hindu and the Muslim; the fight is between the moderate and the extremist. We need to have Hindu and Muslim moderates on the same side against the extremist Hindu and Muslim on the other. http://www.hindustantimes.com/storypage/storypage.aspx?sectionName=&id=e672a71d-2c03-4050-842a-1760c7ec6a9f&&Headline=Why+shoot+the+messenger%3f&strParent=strParentID

[suraj]

Yeah so you are moderate & so am I and millions others in India and us moderates in these times of uncertainties don't use 1 or 2 examples of someone who was ignorant to ignite a fire Should every Punjabi who has not been rented a house by a Gujarati ask for a nationwide campaign to analyze the plight of Punjabis?? Should every South Indian whose accent has been mocked at in crap Bollywood movies use this opportunity with Kashmir at burning point to bring forth his/her POV?? I am sorry Ms Azmi but you have used a very inopportune time to actually risk the lives of millions of moderate citizens by using poor examples of odd situations that all of us in this world- doesn't matter whether we are Hindus. Muslims, non-veg, vet. single, married, male, female, with kids, with no kids, dark-skinned, fair skinned etc because believe it or not such are the criteria used sometimes in renting or selling real estate, entering into business etc. And your response while articulate reeks of lack of responsibility because you are not even any average moderate or any average middle class citizen in India- your comments will be used as justification for a jihad by many, you cannot exploit your personal complaint to create mass hysteria and derive satisfaction. Yes the fight is between moderates and extremists & unfortunately you eventually came out looking like a petty minded, irresponsible person that does not help moderates in any which way at all And your response while articulate reeks of lack of responsibility because you are not even any average moderate or any average middle class citizen in India- your comments will be used as justification for a jihad by many, you cannot exploit your personal complaint to create mass hysteria and derive satisfaction. Yes the fight is between moderates and extremists & unfortunately you eventually came out looking like a petty minded, irresponsible person that does not help moderates in any which way at all.

[sandtest]

Alas, it is also true that I was denied a flat in cosmopolitan Mumbai because Javed and I are Muslims - it was not because we are film people - a very famous film star lives in the same society. It was not because we are non-vegetarians - the family we were to buy it from were themselves non-vegetarians. It was, we were told, by a shame-faced broker because we were Muslim! It happened not once but twice. It didn't come as a big surprise either because we knew of several people who had had similar experiences.

Mohatarma Shabana, the problem started not only with you, but that moron opportunist interviewer Karan Thappad too shares equal responsibility and needs to be whipped along with you. let me once again address your so called "buying flat" arguement which you conveniently used to peddle your hidden theory of IMs as victimized lots in India What you will not like to answer or Karan Thappad will never ask you is -- there are EXCLUSIVE Shia, Sunni, Bohari Muslim societies in Mumbai...what's your take on this Shabana? I can give even name of buildings in Mumbai if you want where ONLY Shia, Sunni or Bohari Muslims are allowed. heck I am not categorizing Muslims here...there are myriads of exclusive Parsi colonies spread all over Mumbai. Rustom Baug parsi colony is often mentioned with pride by Mumbai intellectuals. Did you ever tried to buy a flat in a Parsi colony Shabana maam, before implying evil Hindus victimizing Muslims? Your reason, however correct it may sound to apologists has practically NOTHING to do with victimization of Muslims. Because the societies in Mumbai are based on convinience of that community simple as that and yeah that includes your exclusive Shia, Bohari societies too. If anything it reflects honesty among those communities who politely refuse if they are not comfortable.

[sandtest]

I am being called ungrateful, wretched and even a liar. But these are the same people who applauded me and called me a hero when I took on Imam Bukhari. A few years ago, Imam Bukhari had given a fatwa to Indian Muslims to go to Afghanistan and wage jehad. In an outraged response, I had said on a TV programme that I would request the Prime Minister (at that time Atal Bihari Vajpayee) to air-drop Imam Bukhari into Khandahar so he could be the first to wage his jehad — this would solve his problem and ours too.

They applauded you because there are very RARE cases when Muslim intellectuals criticize a wannabe Jeehadi like Imam Bukhari --- sad but its a fact. For me, there is NOTHING to applaud if you or anyone criticises a jeehadi Imam like Bukhari. What next Shabana, if tomorrow you will condemn a Dawood Ibrahim, Azahar Masood, Afzal Guru or even Ayman Al Zawahiri, OBL etc....you will expect everyone to applaud you?? and then you will use this as a glowing symbol of your "neutral" credentials?? what kind of twisted Iswlamic logic is this? Only p-sec morons in India will buy your this arguement, I am not, sorry Shabana, try again.

It remains for me a matter of the highest honour that both Houses of Parliament issued a statement condemning the Imam's utterance.

Because that comment of Imam bukhari was directly appealing for "Islamization" of India, asking Indian Muslims to be potential Jeehadi recruits to fight against kufrs. If anything it directly challenged India's very base of law and order through government. And for your info. Imam Bukhari enjoys huge following among Muslims, so this forced parliament to come out and act, otherwise don't expect our parliament (particularly under Congress) to come out and say anything which might hurt their "Ummah" vote bank.

Each time I take on the Muslim fundamentalist, I am applauded and hailed as a moderate liberal Muslim. But I am more than just that. I am a moderate liberal Indian and am very proud of being so.

Criticizing a jeehadi Imam is hardly a "badge" of honor for so called liberalism. I am affraid Shabana ji -- you are indulging in Taqiyyah (Islamically authorized practice of deception) here We have seen many so called moderate Muslim writers only to know at the end that all that "liberal" talk was for non-Muslims consumption while main "cause" remained intact.

India has one of the finest Constitutions in the world.

Naah, India has one of the finest Muslim appeasing constitution in the world. Why not Karan Thappad ask you such "uncomfortable" questions??...may be it will not confirm to his p-sec, PC code of conduct..eh? I am sure you are aware about Common Civil Code that is EQUAL law for all which highly pregressive societies like USA practice. why can't such law be implemented in India eliminating preferential treatment to Muslims and making them EQUAL to Indians in true sense. Why when BJP asks to implement common civil code, the so called "moderate" ummah thinkers miss no opportunity to bash BJP and term this as communalization, saffronization, bhagwaaization and evry other leftist/commie invented term. Why Ummah purposefully ignores truelly secular countries like America where common law is indeed implemented by shirking away when asked for India?

The Constitution provides for all her citizens, irrespective of class, caste or gender to demand their rights within its framework without fear and with authority.

No in India constitution does not provide EQUAL rights to all....surprising?..ehh? Indfian constitution under leftist/commie influence and under Muslim appeasing congress is highly unfavorable to majority Hindus. That is why we will see grievances of Hindus which your self-proclaimed liberal thinking paints as hindu extremism, saffronists, bhagwa brigade yada yada. You want example of balatant biase Shabana maam? Major Hindu temples are constitutionally controlled by government, their money is taken away by government and in return very less amount is spend for improving infrastructre/facilities at temples. Most of the money is eaten away by corrupt government or spend in highly descriminatory practices such as Haj subsidy. This is done, while ALL Mosques and Churches are FREE from government. They are free to spend their money in upliftlment of their community. How that is Equality...Shanbana ji?

[Guest dada_rocks]

bottomline itook on imam bukhari so i amentitled toany crap spewing..

[Desi Cartman]

So what is she doing about rights of women if I may ask , isnt she a 2nd wife of Javed Akhtar ?

[seedhi]

Shabana Azmi's attitude here is amazing. Why the hell didnt she file a case against the builder instead of making an allegation in an interview? Any person who indulges in such discrimination can be taken on lawfully. Or is it that Ms Azmi has no regard for the legal institutions of the country? Would she have not filed a case had she been robbed? This makes me think that if such discrimination did take place she was not really bothered by it then to take any action, but conveniently brings something up in an interview to hog the limelight. Quite possibly the whole thing might be a complete fabrication. Either way her words lack credibility as they are not backed by due process of law.

[Lurker]

In the same interview that has become the subject of such mud-slinging, I have also stated that the Indian Muslim feels safer in India than elsewhere because he has a stake and a space in the country's democracy. An ordinary Muslim can aspire to become the President of India, a Shah Rukh Khan or an Irfan Pathan. That the time has come for Muslims to stop looking at themselves only as victims and do some soul-searching on the need for reform within the community. Why then does only one remark get pulled out of the interview and become the subject of such acrimony?

Because that is what media does. Media will highlight stuff that sells. Indian media is no longer the bastion of Ramnath Goenka and the likes. It is essentially a group of companies that are responsible to share market and whose sole responsibility is towards its share holders.

What is the point in denying it? We need to bring these issues in the open and draw courage from the fact that there are also very robust resistance groups in all sections of our society that are opposing this tooth and nail so there is absolutely no cause for despair.

Nothing wrong in expressing what you think is correct. India allows every citizen the right to do so, even though in some cases the citizen even ask for a division of the country. However just as every citizen has a right he/she also has a responsibility. Your arguments have come at a time when emotions and running high and specially in Kashmir Muslims are asking for freedom, suggesting India has been discriminating against them etc etc. In such a scenario a statement by you that essentially suggested Muslims were discriminated in the most socio-cosmpolitan town in the country only confirmed that Muslims are unwanted in India after 60 odd years. So obviously Indians have not exactly been amused. Even in this statement I do feel that you are getting aggressive. A polite clarification, or a simple apology along the order of my words were twisted, or this is what I had actually meant, would help. Nothing wrong in that. xxx

[Guest dada_rocks]

again' date=' that is not an insult. an insult would be along the lines of "you dimwit *****"[/quote'] insult or no insult it's factual representation waise mirchi kahe lag rahi hai........:--D..

[Guest dada_rocks]

So what is she doing about rights of women if I may ask ' date=' isnt she a 2nd wife of Javed Akhtar ?[/quote'] that has islamic sanction remember till four they can go in addition to sex-slave

[Guest dada_rocks]

Shabana Azmi's attitude here is amazing. Why the hell didnt she file a case against the builder instead of making an allegation in an interview? Any person who indulges in such discrimination can be taken on lawfully. Or is it that Ms Azmi has no regard for the legal institutions of the country? Would she have not filed a case had she been robbed? This makes me think that if such discrimination did take place she was not really bothered by it then to take any action, but conveniently brings something up in an interview to hog the limelight. Quite possibly the whole thing might be a complete fabrication. Either way her words lack credibility as they are not backed by due process of law.

precisely how did she maange to get all thsoe flats she owns in first place..