veer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I have been watching debates, presidential and vice presidential, and I cant believe the way they talk about Israel. They are so protective and respectful of Isreal that its like holy land to them.. I know .. US has some powerful jewish community.. especially in NY in all field area.. but this much respect is just unbelievable.. can anyone shade more light on this?
Lurker Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 a) Money and influence. Jewish community has strong financial assetts and specially influential in media(both Television and Hollywood). b) Key role in states like Florida which can decide this election. A lot of Floridians are Jew. c) The strong ties between Religious Right and Jews. If you are anti-Israel by default you lose this vote block. Even a Democract like Biden, who is Catholic, is very pro-Israel.
Lurker Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 a) Money and influence. Jewish community has strong financial assetts and specially influential in media(both Television and Hollywood). b) Key role in states like Florida which can decide this election. A lot of Floridians are Jew. c) The strong ties between Religious Right and Jews. If you are anti-Israel by default you lose this vote block. Even a Democract like Biden, who is Catholic, is very pro-Israel.
veer Posted October 8, 2008 Author Posted October 8, 2008 Lurker, I know what you are saying but then again .. are those jews tied to Israel that strongly? another example, whites coming from europe in early 1900s or late 1800s.. doesnt mean their 3rd or 4th generation have legions to those european countries.. say Italy or France.. Shouldnt 3rd 4th generations Jews need to be more royal to USA than Israel? Instead of USA govt dectating American Jews relation to Israel.. we have American Jews dictating USA govt relations to Israel.. there must be something more to this.. than just influence and votes..
fineleg Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 veer, u will be surprised. they have strong feelings and ties, and that is a big reason.
Sooda Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Israel is the 'holy land' though, therein lies the difference between American Jews and other people of European descent. Its very much a religious thing rather than a nationalistic one. If I am correct there are a fair number of American Jews settled in Israel
Lurker Posted October 9, 2008 Posted October 9, 2008 Lurker, I know what you are saying but then again .. are those jews tied to Israel that strongly? Yes Veer they are tied very strongly. The reason is both religious as well as historical. Israel as a country gives citizenship to every Jew on this planet. If you can provide evidence that you asre a practising Jew(not sure how that works) then you automatically qualify as a candidate for the citizenship in the Holy Land(for them). This is obviously of great importance since if anytime something goes wrong in US Jews can migrate to Israel. This is specially (mis) used by say mobsters. Meyer Lansky, arguably the most formidamle gangster in USA ever, tried to migrate to Israel when things got too hot for him. Historically Jews have been persecuted around the world for centuries. Except India of course. For thousand of years Jews had no country to call their own. And wherever they may be living they were persecuted. So after thousand of years of misery when they have a land to call their own they have very strong feelings for it. This is further helped by the fact that Israel's neighbours are not exactly friendly and so the mentality of "fighting for whats right" takes dominance. another example, whites coming from europe in early 1900s or late 1800s.. doesnt mean their 3rd or 4th generation have legions to those european countries.. say Italy or France.. There is the difference of religious angle. People moved from Europe, which was largely Christian, to US which is again Christian. So they dont exactly miss out on anything. If there was 1 Christian country I think its fair to say most Christians would have a bond with it. Shouldnt 3rd 4th generations Jews need to be more royal to USA than Israel? Instead of USA govt dectating American Jews relation to Israel.. we have American Jews dictating USA govt relations to Israel.. I dont think there is any dichotomy here. Most American Jews are Americans first. Havent seen any of them go against USA really. Many Jew comics openly poke fun of Israelis, and Jewishm. There is little out of bounds really. So yeah they do support Israel but not over US...I think. xxx
Rajiv Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I am not sure abt the answers but I think its a great question, I would ask the Frozen Man if I were in the townhall meeting
CC1981 Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Umm..duh...Israel is explicitly the holy land of Christians as well - and there aint no shortage of christian nutters in the US...this is like if Benaras, Kalighaat, Somnath,Bodh Gaya, Madurai etc. were all rolled into one tiny patch of land 200 kms by 50 kms and made independent and tossed to the other side of the planet...obviously the 'rest of India' would be very touchy/protective of this tiny piece of land. Duh.
veer Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 Umm..duh...Israel is explicitly the holy land of Christians as well - and there aint no shortage of christian nutters in the US...this is like if Benaras, Kalighaat, Somnath,Bodh Gaya, Madurai etc. were all rolled into one tiny patch of land 200 kms by 50 kms and made independent and tossed to the other side of the planet...obviously the 'rest of India' would be very touchy/protective of this tiny piece of land. Duh. you still dont get my point.. I know its the holy land for Christians.. but its one thing to defend that holy land and another to defend every Israeli policy, every Israeli move, go against every Israeli enemies blindly and so on... btw.. then why Europeans dont defend them blindly? they have christians too..
CC1981 Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 but its one thing to defend that holy land and another to defend every Israeli policy, every Israeli move, go against every Israeli enemies blindly and so on That is a collection of many factors. The mosts obvious is the 'holy land' factor i've mentioned. Also, do not underestimate the guilt factor - it was a white man who less than 70 years ago nearly wiped out the entire jewish 'race'. A lot of white people still cringe at that dark episode in history and feel a 'personal need' to make up for it- which translates to favouritism of israel. Also count in the 'insurmountable odds to existence' factor of israel - it is surrounded by arab states who want to annihilate it and genocide its population/forcably convert (which the muslims are so bloody good at, as history shows). Its the hope factor that every human has- where one wants to see a 'David' slay the Goliath. And lastly, do not forget that to most in the west (myself), if we were to choose between Israel and all that it stands for versus Arabia and all that it stands for, its a no-brainer which side will get my and most of the west's vote. Combine all these factors, you get one helluva favouritism angle happening, where even despicable acts by Israel get brushed under the carpet ( do not mistake me as an Israel-supporter...thats one mad,demented and dark nation which disgusts me...but Israel vs Palestine is like choosing between Daoud Ibrahim and Hitler.
Kriterion Posted October 11, 2008 Posted October 11, 2008 if isreal is not defended, jesus can't come back to convert them and the rest of the world to christianity
veer Posted October 11, 2008 Author Posted October 11, 2008 if isreal is not defended' date=' jesus can't come back to convert them and the rest of the world to christianity[/quote'] now this looks a valid point... any light into this?
yoda Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 http://www.geocities.com/christian_crusade/understandingthevalue.html
Kriterion Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 now this looks a valid point... any light into this? well christianity stems from judaism. in fact one can look at christianity as a sect of judaism. the first christians were all jews and observed jewish holidays like the passover, etc. indeed the islamic viewpoint is that christianity was the updated form of judaism, just as judaism was the updated form of adam and noah's religion - whatever it was called. so to christians (and muslims) jews were the people that god chose, above everyone else. however, this is not without condition. if you ask a jewish rabbi, he will tell you an interesting story that god went and asked every nation on earth who would be "his chosen people" and everyone refused due to the responsibilities it entailed. the israelites were the only people left, and hence they had to accept. i am sure most people, many jews included, view this "chosen people" concept as a free ride or divine favoritism, although it really isn't. at any rate, the christians also believe that jews are the chosen people and occupy a special place in prophecy since jesus was a himself a jew by birth and because the jews rejected him and conspired to assassinate him. there are passages in the new testement which actually state that jesus came only for the "lost sheep of israel" and hence any end times scenario without the eventual salvation of the entire nation of israel looks very pointless from the christian PoV. of course, jesus cannot return to israel until the jews have assembled there (support for the modern state of israel) and the third temple is rebuilt. but the third temple ruins lie directly under the majid al aksa and hence cannot be rebuilt. its quite the sticky situation.
Recommended Posts