The Dilemna of Dravid : The Journey from Melbourne to Nagpur

[Guest HariSampath]

Let me help you with your argument, Rajan...as far as I know, in India , I remember Sunny Gavaskar from between the years 1971 and 1974. After his debut series, where Sunny got 774 runs in 4 tests, he went through a horrible patch, didnt get a single test 100 for 3 years, BUT just 8 test matches were played then. I followed all those series very closely in those days, and Gavaskar did get 4 Fifties in those 8 tests, I think. Then he got a magnificent innings of 57 in manchester, which he still considers his best ever test inngs. GR Vishwanath, perhaps one of the greatest ever batters I had seen, went through a similar patch between 1971 and 1974...same period as Sunny. But even he didnt go through as many test matches failing, and was getting fifties in between. But keep in mind that both Sunny and Vishy were just around 21 in 1971 , and both had magnificent debuts, and also both of them bounced back tremendously. Most importantly very few tests were played each year in that era, maybe 5 tests per year, so opportunity of getting back into form was lesser. But now we have Dravid at 35, at the end of his career, and that too his failures are not just 5 or 8 tests...its like 25 tests, and he has had plenty of opportunity to bounce back. No one can say team management hasn't stuck by him, that will be atrocious. Team management HAS stuck with him, and he has played continuously without a single missed game for last 2 years, despite an all time unprecedented failure stretch. The question is : how much longer, and more importantly : ok, we wait for 3-4 more tests for a 100..and then what ? Finally, can you explain whatever you are saying to Badrinath and convince him ? Last 2-3 years he too has been ageing, now he is 27.....and will he not ask you " ok, if according to you, Dravid should play for 3 more years, you are saying to me : just shut up and go home"..can you answer him?

[coffee_rules]

IVAR in the last 5 series (2 years) averaged 32 and scored 1 100. So, Dravid is also nearing his sell-by date. Nothing unusual about the long rope given to Dravid. He is an ATG batsman for India after SMG and SRT. Naturally he will be given a longer rope than average batsmen like Ganguly or even Laxman. Dravid has been phenomenal since his debut. Between 2000-2005 he was the best batman for India in terms of contribution. Go figure!

[Fontaine]

Hari: ...My challenge is still out there: Can anyone show me, in the entire history of test cricket in 100 years, when a top order batter, one of the team's best batting strengths supposedly , has gone through this kind of appalling failure over 2 years, 25 tests and still in the side, especially when at least 3-4 deserving middle order batters have been kept out ? Plz check.... 1.filtered:1977-1981, 31 tests,1102 runs, 81 highest, 22.48 average,0 hundreds, 41 catches, 0 wkts 2.filtered 1988-1991 22 1033 98 35.62 0 - - - - 22 0 cricket is a team game, when Ganguly failed Dravid saved us many times. When Laxman was in a bad patch Dravid helped the team.When sachin was going thro a poor form Dravid was God.similarly the Fab 4 have supported each other and Sehwag chipped in when almost every one failed.But when Dravid is in a lean patch, when others are contributing, v still are complaining that he shud retire! give him a break!

Uhm, you make no sense. On one hand you say cricket is a team game, then you go on to say that one player should be accomodated even if it means he's not contributing? Which one is it? Do you support the Indian Dravid team or the Indian Cricket team? Every single time this nonsense comes up when fans of a specific player place him much higher than the needs of the team. Shame on you.

[Mr. Wicket]

Nice post, Hari. Agree with your and Donny's sentiments. Dravid's reputation has been in gradual decline, along with his consistency in producing the big runs. IMO - Nagpur will be the perfect time for him to leave. If he fails and still chooses to hang around, his place cannot and should not be guaranteed, and he'll be under even more pressure to stand down. If he succeeds, it'll be even more ideal - a hundred or another significant knock can restore some of the reputation and standing he has lost a little off recently, and he can leave with his head held high. More than that, the next rounds of test cricket are ideal for young blood to be tested. We play England at home, then possibly Pakistan, then New Zealand away. A two test series v. England at home is the ideal situation to throw in another like Rohit Sharma, Pujara, Badrinath or give another chance to someone like Kaif. Dravid will gain little from playing in that series, and the spaces opened if he stands down and follows Ganguly's example too will be a great way to give a couple of young hungry guns a chance. Meanwhile, one other bit of fuel. I'm sure we all remember how Dravid and Ganguly's test careers often parallel/follow each other. Debuts in the same test at Lord's in 96. Big knocks then (a 90 to Dravid, ton to Ganguly, same results in the following test). Same periods of ascent for the most part, with one man's captaincy following the other, and some of the golden moments of Indian cricket coming with the two men effectively leading the side, Gangu as captain and Dravid as v/c and the key batsman in some of our great successes. Would be fitting the same way if those two giants chose to leave on the same stage at Nagpur. I think they will. And if so, I hope they get the farewell they deserve.

[diegovegaz]

there should be no dilemma his place is justified

[matma]

LMAO - Question, who can replace Dravid at 3? I am sorry but VVS Laxman is not a number 3. He is best suited in the middle order. Dravid is at 3 because he has the technique of a number 3. WOW he played one loose shot wide outside off to get out. Dhoni played a loose shot, Tendulkar chased and fished one outside off when he was set...it happens. So who can replace him? Badrinath, Kaif, Yuvi at 5 and VVS at 3? I doubt it. As long as Dravid remains fit he will be in the team. Great players are great because they have the ability to bounce back. To get to be a great player, selectors, coaches and captains need to show FAITH in players. On a sidenote, I would love to see Kholi ccome in for Gambhir for the final test. Selectors may go with Jaffer though.

[bharat297]

^ Gambhir will play in the final test. The hearing will be postponed

[fineleg]

LMAO - On a sidenote, I would love to see Kholi ccome in for Gambhir for the final test. Selectors may go with Jaffer though.

matma, ?? Just what has kholi done to earn a Test spot!?? There is aakash chopra if we need a Test opener.

[kooljatt]

Dravid’s slide in the batting ladder continues and following two knocks of 11, the former India captain has dropped eight places to 26th in ICC rankings. It is the first time he has dropped out of top 20 since January 1997 when he slipped to 25th after the Johannesburg Test against South Africa.

[bharat297]

Aakash Chopra struggled in some of the lead up games (particularly in the Board XI match vs an Australian attack identical to the current one). Kohli has scored a ton against the current attack. Jaffer notched up a 93. If we're looking at openers ... we need some aggressive openers to put the Australians on the back foot early. Id pick Jaffer, Dhawan or Kohli over Chopra. We dont need a defensive mindset now. We are 1-0 up in the series and if Sehwag falls early, and we are left with a Chopra/Dravid partnership ... then that really hands the momentum back to Australia.

[Fontaine]

Aakash Chopra struggled in some of the lead up games (particularly in the Board XI match vs an Australian attack identical to the current one). Kohli has scored a ton against the current attack. Jaffer notched up a 93. If we're looking at openers ... we need some aggressive openers to put the Australians on the back foot early. Id pick Jaffer, Dhawan or Kohli over Chopra. We dont need a defensive mindset now. We are 1-0 up in the series and if Sehwag falls early, and we are left with a Chopra/Dravid partnership ... then that really hands the momentum back to Australia.

Excellent post. Jaffer would be an ideal replacement Gambhir if he can't play. If he does then I would even promote Jaffer ahead of Dravid as the real weakeness Jaffer has is the swinging ball and in these conditions I don't think we'll see much of that.

[Guest HariSampath]

Gambhir will play, it is extremely unlikely that any hearing by Justice Sachs can be completed in 48 hours, so GG will play.. If at all he doesnt play...there are just 2 options. Dravid will be TOLD to open and Badri will play at #6, making his test debut. If at all a new opener is brought in, Kohli will open, as he has opened in ODIs, enjoys Dhoni's confidence and has just got a 100 against this Aussie attack. Akash Chopra and Dhawan are not even remotely in the picture. But IF at all GG doesn't play, the first option is what will happen most probably. But I know for a fact that the Selection committee hasn't called up any other player, and so GG is expected to play.

[Guest HariSampath]

Aakash Chopra struggled in some of the lead up games (particularly in the Board XI match vs an Australian attack identical to the current one). Kohli has scored a ton against the current attack. Jaffer notched up a 93. If we're looking at openers ... we need some aggressive openers to put the Australians on the back foot early. Id pick Jaffer, Dhawan or Kohli over Chopra. We dont need a defensive mindset now. We are 1-0 up in the series and if Sehwag falls early, and we are left with a Chopra/Dravid partnership ... then that really hands the momentum back to Australia.

Akash Chopra and Jaffer are not even in the scheme of things, I can safely tell you that the possibility of seeing either of them on a cricket field for India is ZERO.

[bharat297]

^ The only reason I said Jaffer is because he has a good record in India and more importantly he has runs under his belt against this very attack (in the tour game). Chopra doesnt have the latter. Kohli is also another possibility. I wouldnt mind Dhawan up there but the fact that he didnt play in the tour game means he probably wont be in contention. In any case ... I think Gambhir is gonna play anyway.

[Guest HariSampath]

In fact the selectors have moved on beyond Jaffer, Chopra et al...Murali Vijay has been coming into the selectors attention over the last season. The opener was tried out in Challenger's trophy , after he had also played for India A. He was 2nd highest scorer in Challengers trophy, coming on top of a great FC season last year. Vijay has also started off the FC games with a unbeaten Ranji 200 yesterday, and may make 300 too, and will be considered seriously soon enough

[bharat297]

I dont understand why the selectors will look at something like how someone has done over the past few seasons for a situation such as this (i.e. the possibility that Gambhir has to miss the next game) If Gambhir is out ... the selectors should replace him with someone who is in form now. Not someone who has been in form for the past few seasons but is struggling now. If theyre in form now, thats all that matters. That is all they should worry about. The replacement is only coming in for 1 game and then going back to domestic cricket to continue their journey. For that reason, I wouldnt mind seeing Virat Kohli come in to the side ... because he is in form now and thus more likely to score runs in this test (which is all that we need).

[bunny]

In fact the selectors have moved on beyond Jaffer' date=' Chopra et al...Murali Vijay has been coming into the selectors attention over the last season. The opener was tried out in Challenger's trophy , after he had also played for India A. He was 2nd highest scorer in Challengers trophy, coming on top of a great FC season last year. Vijay has also started off the FC games with a unbeaten Ranji 200 yesterday, and may make 300 too, and will be considered seriously soon enough[/quote'] Actually Murali Vijay is a very good batsman. If I were the selector, I'd take him ahead of Yuvraj, Rohit, Raina, Kohli, Pujara etc. Probably even ahead of Badri.

[Guest HariSampath]

Yes Murali Vijay would come in soon enough. He is young, 21 and already has 3 seasons of FC behind him, top scored for India A in the "tests" against NZ last month, and scored 580 runs last season and will cross 600 runs easily this season. But he may have to wait a bit...and although he is a terrific player, I cant slot him ahead of Badri, because Badri had done all of the above for many seasons and is certainly waiting list #1. Vijay's batting approach is great. I have seen him play the 4 day games, settling in for an hour, playing in the straight V, getting a 50, then opening up to hit huge sixes. He , in fact would be a great #3 too.

[King]

Old habits die hard and I suspect you are going to be the usual suspect. All it will take is for someone to refute your tirades. Ones like you have to be kept on leash otherwise we all know where it will get to. Rest assured, this time that won't be let to happen. Better warn before it will get out of hand. People like you with bloated ego come and go. You leave in a lurk and come back when it pleases you. If people have left in the past that have been because of contributors like you that come with bloated ego and hidden agendas.

[Rajan]

Hold on Guys,lets just debate on topic plz Ravi & Hari, for God's sake, let us not point fingers and use rough language plz. v r all here as genuine fans of Indian cricket first and foremost. this is a super site for indian fans and i wish even other team fans participate more and more in healthy discussions and take this site to greater heights.but if v resort to issuing veiled threats, accuse each other with percieved opinions/wrongly attribute motives, we would be bringing down the value of the site. plz desist from such acts. Indian cricket and ICF deserve better, especially from those members who have so much ownership and respect for this site, like you guys.Now, lets not rewind to ' he said this first, i only responded in kind' and all. lets forget and forgive. plz respect each other, agree to disagree if you have differing views, but plz dont indulge in any acts that bring down ur respect among other members. now, lets have a healthy discussion, again. Ok, i am sticking my neck out, as i have been for the past 2 days, I dont want Dravid to retire for the next 2 years at least. he shud play in the nagpur test, if he fails can be rested/dropped, shud go back to Ranji, reclaim confidence and form, shud be gven an opportunity ahaed of newcomers,straightaway, if he scores big in domestic matches. if he contributes well, then he plays the england series like a champ!