The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I think you are only kidding yourself if you think there is NO difference in the attitude of BJP as compared to Congress when it comes to terrorism. BJP has been far more proactive towards tackling this problem. We cannot see their act of returning the 3 terrorists as 'Soft act' because the choice was taken out of their hand by inept handling of the situation when the plane was IN India by the agencies. And the victory in Kargil (through military and diplomacy) is one of the few bright spots in our fight against Pakistani sponsered war. It was an intelligence failure that led to it in the first place. Congress on other hand has been appeasing the minorities to the HILT, taking out the tough laws that NO DOUBT will be brought back now and generally being SOFT on this issue. If Modi becomes PM and goes on his extremist right wing agenda, after being elected by an angered public wanting some real action on this front, I would say the PCs on this country deserve it since they were apathetic for so long. :hysterical::hysterical: Kandahar hijacking = Inept handling of agencies Bombay terrorism = Inept handling by Congress Can't argue with that logic. Carry on supporting fascists who get spit upon by martyr's widows and are not accepted by the international community.
punjabi_khota Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 :hysterical::hysterical: Kandahar hijacking = Inept handling of agencies Bombay terrorism = Inept handling by Congress Can't argue with that logic. Carry on supporting fascists who get spit upon by martyr's widows and are not accepted by the international community. Where did I do that comparison ? Why are you imagining stuff ? I don't think it was inept handling by Congress DURING the attacks. IT is very clear that overall terrorism situation has worsened during the Congress rule and the Bombay attacks are one of the many during its reign. You said that we have a history of being soft and ALL parties are the same on that front, I was refuting that claim of yours. And you keep your PCness going, by judging people's worth by what INTERNATIONAL community accepts or not. In case you are referring to Modi's visa denial, I would like to remind you that Osama and Saddam Hussein were embraced by America. Honorable people ?
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Where did you get that from? The only leader who has been spit upon was Kerala CM - by Late Sandeep's father. I suppose you missed the news about Karkare's widow refusing the compensation offered by Modi?
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Where did I do that comparison ? Why are you imagining stuff ? I don't think it was inept handling by Congress DURING the attacks. IT is very clear that overall terrorism situation has worsened during the Congress rule and the Bombay attacks are one of the many during its reign. You said that we have a history of being soft and ALL parties are the same on that front, I was refuting that claim of yours. And you keep your PCness going, by judging people's worth by what INTERNATIONAL community accepts or not. In case you are referring to Modi's visa denial, I would like to remind you that Osama and Saddam Hussein were embraced by America. Honorable people ? Terrorism in Kashmir has gone down considerably during the Congress rule. Do you think the Congress deserves any credit for it? I don't think so and neither do I think the Congress is uniquely responsible for the upsurge in other parts of the country. It would have happened regardless of the party in power. I have given many examples above of BS happening in our country regardless of the party in power.....so yes ALL parties that have ruled India have screwed it one way or the other...some 19, some 20. Anyhow, I am not campaigning for BJP/Congress here but a total revamp of our political system. If you think things were and will be fine during BJP rule, go ahead, I have no such illusions. And you keep your right wing fascism going by supporting genociders like Modi who forget the international community even a martyr's widow spurned. I suppose she was also being politically correct? Don't bother to answer the question...nothing will be a surprise coming from right wing fundoos like you.
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Not just Modi' date=' others as well. Go back and check your facts.[/quote'] Which backs my point that all politicians are scums rather than yours that Modi is a messiah.
punjabi_khota Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Terrorism in Kashmir has gone down considerably during the Congress rule. Do you think the Congress deserves any credit for it? I don't think so and neither do I think the Congress is uniquely responsible for the upsurge in other parts of the country. It would have happened regardless of the party in power. I have given many examples above of BS happening in our country regardless of the party in power.....so yes ALL parties that have ruled India have screwed it one way or the other...some 19, some 20. Anyhow, I am not campaigning for BJP/Congress here but a total revamp of our political system. If you think things were and will be fine during BJP rule, go ahead, I have no such illusions. And you keep your right wing fascism going by supporting genociders like Modi who forget the international community even a martyr's widow spurned. I suppose she was also being politically correct? Don't bother to answer the question...nothing will be a surprise coming from right wing fundoos like you. I am not an out and out Modi supporter. I said that since the reaction to this attack has been so strong, and that the current government has been super weak /apathetic in handling the situation, it is only fair/inevitable that the people who elected it in first place will probably get a taste of Modi. Congress and the people who elected them let the situation go out of hand. Now they cannot blame anyone if Modi gets elected as PM next time, since we have basically seen what minority appeasement and dilly-dallying over strict terror laws can do to this country. I still wish Advani and not Modi becomes our next PM though.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Same BS is on.. Would someone tell what were the option iN kandhar other than releasing those criminals in order to save indian lilves.. I vividly rember sonia mata communist all parties were doign song and dance for releasing the terrorist and bringing back indian nationals when they saw that NDa was not so sure about releasing.. suddenly same chumps are accusing NDA for releasing them.. Fcat is if tomorrow we find ourselves in same scenario we will have to do that again.> precedent has been set by that Bit$h Rubia Saeed's fake kidnap drama and subsequent relese of five terroists.. Btw t I hang my head in shame the advisor of the clown PM V P singh who died few days ago used to be a Bihari Prem Shanakr Jha in those days.. I am told he was the one who insisted for the release of those criminals.. BTW this is not intelligence failure.. intelligence agencies had warned them so many times.. it's the policing failure, whole ATS was busy weaving stories in sadhvi case
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 http://outlookindia.com/full.asp?fodname=20081129&fname=raman&sid=1&pn=2 B Raman summarizes the prepearedness of ATS so succinctly. It's nto that they didn't have money they used the money for luxury cars. I watched with shock and disbelief on TV, visuals of Hemant Karkare trying different helmets and bullet-proof vests before choosing one which suited his build. Here was the most threatened officer of the Mumbai Police and the Government had not even given him a protective gear tailor-made for him. This is a telling instance of the casual way we handle counter-terrorism and we look after our brave officers fighting terrorism.
gs Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 :hysterical::hysterical: Kandahar hijacking = Inept handling of agencies Bombay terrorism = Inept handling by Congress Can't argue with that logic. Carry on supporting fascists who get spit upon by martyr's widows and are not accepted by the international community. Wouldnt attach too much importance to international community's opinion on people. For godsakes, Yasser Arafat got a Nobel peace prize!!! That's how good their judgement is!!
Rajiv Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Karkhare, Kamte and Salvakar all died at the same time, when the terrorist opened fire at the police jeep, these guys were in the front seat - this is the same police jeep driven by those terrorist and we saw on TV This is the live account given by a havaldar sitting on the back seat of the Jeep, he is in the hospital now
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Karkhare, Kamte and Salvakar all died at the same time, when the terrorist opened fire at the police jeep, these guys were in the front seat - this is the same police jeep driven by those terrorist and we saw on TV This is the live account given by a havaldar sitting on the back seat of the Jeep, he is in the hospital now Bullet proof car as opposed to luxury car wud have helped I guess.... here is what an army major thinks about Maharashtra ATS's conduct.. On the morning of November 27th, having watched the ordeal in Mumbai all through the night on television, I suddenly recalled that a school mate has just shifted base to Mumbai after taking premature retirement from the Army. He had called-up the other day to say that his office was in South Mumbai, close to Taj Mahal hotel. “I am lucky, I returned home early as there was nobody to cook food at home,†he said, exchanged pleasantries and hung-up. A few minutes later, his name flashed again on the mobile screen. “You were mentioning something about martyrdom of 12 cops. They allowed themselves to become fodder,†he said. Realising that he is a former Black Cat, the journalist in me decided to probe him further. “What non-sense is this? Two five stars and a Jewish hospice is taken over and the cops think that it would be an act of amateurs. They thought that it would be like that Patna lad taking over the BEST bus, who could be encountered,†he yelled and went to give a discourse on how the high rate of casualties could have been arrested.
gs Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Bullet proof car as opposed to luxury car wud have helped I guess.... here is what an army major thinks about Maharashtra ATS's conduct.. On the morning of November 27th, having watched the ordeal in Mumbai all through the night on television, I suddenly recalled that a school mate has just shifted base to Mumbai after taking premature retirement from the Army. He had called-up the other day to say that his office was in South Mumbai, close to Taj Mahal hotel. “I am lucky, I returned home early as there was nobody to cook food at home,†he said, exchanged pleasantries and hung-up. A few minutes later, his name flashed again on the mobile screen. “You were mentioning something about martyrdom of 12 cops. They allowed themselves to become fodder,†he said. Realising that he is a former Black Cat, the journalist in me decided to probe him further. “What non-sense is this? Two five stars and a Jewish hospice is taken over and the cops think that it would be an act of amateurs. They thought that it would be like that Patna lad taking over the BEST bus, who could be encountered,†he yelled and went to give a discourse on how the high rate of casualties could have been arrested. Reminds me of the movie - Ab tak chappan. Ek aur entry in the laal diary!
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 honestly we are living in a country where PM and leader of opposition decides to put an united front and visit the terro site together but one foreigner hardly literate lady gets offended over this development and decides to veto it and thereby leader of opposition keeps waiting and that call for boarding plane never comes.. ........
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Would someone tell what were the option iN kandhar other than releasing those criminals in order to save indian lilves.. Yeah, I'll tell you......the plane was at the Amritsar airport on Indian soil and the Indian government did not do anything. Once the aircraft was out of the Indian air space not much could have been done due to previous precedents, but to let the aircraft take off from Amritsar was a systematic security failure.
gs Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Yeah' date=' I'll tell you......the plane was at the Amritsar airport on Indian soil and the Indian government did not do anything. Once the aircraft was out of the Indian air space not much could have been done due to previous precedents, but to let the aircraft take off from Amritsar was a [b']systematic security failure. Completely agree. It's beyond my comprehension how they could let it take off and leave Indian shores!
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Completely agree. It's beyond my comprehension how they could let it take off and leave Indian shores! I am yet to see a bigger hijda act than the foreign minister of a country escorting 3 hard core terrorists to a hostile country in Z grade security after having a chance to foil the entire plot but some people are so blinded by the Hindu rhetoric that they cannot see anything wrong with the BJP.
Guest dada_rocks Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 Yeah' date=' I'll tell you......the plane was at the Amritsar airport on Indian soil and the Indian government did not do anything. Once the aircraft was out of the Indian air space not much could have been done due to previous precedents, but to let the aircraft take off from Amritsar was a systematic security failure.[/quote'] India govt did try to do something.. When there are passengers in the plane you just can;t move in with tank openly.. a trap was set it didn;t work.. Security forces had to take into account that they might have bombs inside and blow it..NDTV was beaming this live .. later on many saidit was their live reporting that gave away the intention of indian soldiers......To say that indian security forces didn't do anything is unfair.. Compare this we had 100+ hkept under hostage by two guys there was no concrete demand so obviously there was no doubt that terrorists wanted to kill them yet for three days security forces waited.. I am sure again the concern must have bene what if they have RDX placed all over and might blwo whole hotel.. still I expected better reposne from security forces when the battlefield was in our own home and they had enough time..... I wonder what ywe got from this wait and watch ordeal all the hostages were kileld anyway and whole world saw how inefficient we were for threee full days.. didn't do any good to india's image... In plane hiijack case hardly for few hours planes was at amritsar airport hence I am willing to give them benfit fo doubt.. once it let our country thrre was no other option but to release the criminals.......I for one wud have liked to let the passengers die but precdent was set by that chump V P Singh and whole media machinery whole opposition was shouting and that left no choice..
The Outsider Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 India govt did try to do something.. When there are passengers in the plane you just can;t move in with tank openly.. a trap was set it didn;t work.. Security forces had to take into account that they might have bombs inside and blow it..NDTV was beaming this live .. later on many saidit was their live reporting that gave away the intention of indian soldiers......To say that indian security forces didn't do anything is unfair.. Utter rot......in the words of Jaswant Singh the NSG could not reach there on time and local security forces were told not to move in till the NSG arrives. But then twisting facts and rewriting history is your forte...facts be damned.
punjabi_khota Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I am yet to see a bigger hijda act than the foreign minister of a country escorting 3 hard core terrorists to a hostile country in Z grade security after having a chance to foil the entire plot but some people are so blinded by the Hindu rhetoric that they cannot see anything wrong with the BJP. There is a lot wrong with BJP. But the fact remains, in current scenario, BJP offers a higher chance of success against Islamic terrorism than the PC , minority dick sucking Congress with aversion to strict terror laws . You are trying to paint a picture where all parties are the same, which is wrong. You want "total reform" of the system, but the elections are due in a few months and so that "total reform" is not going to help in tackling the ground realities any time soon.
gs Posted December 1, 2008 Posted December 1, 2008 I am yet to see a bigger hijda act than the foreign minister of a country escorting 3 hard core terrorists to a hostile country in Z grade security after having a chance to foil the entire plot but some people are so blinded by the Hindu rhetoric that they cannot see anything wrong with the BJP. I admit it was a pathetic act. However I still dont think its got anything to do with the party in power. India has always been unprepared to handle a serious security situation regardless of which party was in power. Kaangres is no better. A lot of these problems wouldnt have existed in the first place if it wasnt for minority appeasement. Kashmir could have been resolved after the 1971 war when India had over 90K porkistani prisoners. How can you hold a government which has been in power barely for one term responsible for a situation that has been created by decades of misrule and neglect? How else do you explain the situation where local police have to fight terrorists armed with assault rifles with laathis and WW era revolvers/rifles? Its not as if India got independence in the late nineties. For godsakes, Kaangres rules it for 40+ years by then. Once again, am not a great fan of BJP either, but I dont think they alone are responsible for this situation. Hard to chose the lesser among the evils.
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