Viru

[Lord]

Then he would have enjoyed a good 3 days of being happy because we lost this match on day 2.

not really we still had a chance after conceding a lead.but the never should have scored 250 in thier 2nd innings.bhajji ,the senior bowler now bowled crap.we relied so heavily on him.

[The Outsider]

I'll fix the posts. But the deficit has been reduced to 256 now. The situation is equivalent to chasing a fourth innings target of 260 & us reduced to 4/1. Still a tough target for 4th innings, but if we dont fancy our chances against an English attack in a supposedly spinner friendly pitch at home, against England (that does not have a strong spin attack), how can we claim to have a great batting lineup ? Am not concerned about the ultimate result, but more about our attitude. The Aussies when faced with a 370+ target, came out attacking. While they werent successful, they had the self belief. Thats what make them champions. Even the weakest Aussie test team visiting India in close to a decade, with its chief opener (Hayden) out of form, came out swinging. Indian ODI side has started to think like that. But our test stars are still old fashioned. I reckon once the first wicket falls in the morning, we'll start playing for a draw.

Last innings chases in India cannot be simplified mathematically as you have attempted to do above. Scoring against the new ball is the easiest thing. The real job started after 20 overs. Giving example of the Aussies who ended up being whooped by 200 runs? Came out swinging to what effect? To be inflicted by one of the biggest losses they have suffered in the last decade. Results count and Australia failed completely. And as I wrote in some earlier post, don't underestimate the English attack. Panesar is a very good spinner and they have bowlers capable of reverse swinging the ball, both essentials to bottle down a last innings run chase in India. Remember our Calcutta chase against Pakistan in '99? We were 140-1 chasing 260 I think but the old ball became impossible to bat against because of the reverse swing and spin of Saqlain and we were bowled out for 220 odd. If India manage to pull this off it will go down as one of the greatest run chases but let's face the facts - there is nothing new in teams falling apart on a last day wicket in India, what we should have done was score more in the first innings.

[Predator_05]

But the deficit has been reduced to 256 now. The situation is equivalent to chasing a fourth innings target of 260 & us reduced to 4/1. Still a tough target for 4th innings, but if we dont fancy our chances against an English attack (that does not have a strong spin attack) in a supposedly spinner friendly pitch at home, how can we claim to have a great batting lineup ? Am not concerned about the ultimate result, but more about our attitude. The Aussies when faced with a 370+ target, came out attacking. While they werent successful, they had the self belief. Thats what make them champions. Even the weakest Aussie test team visiting India in close to a decade, with its chief opener (Hayden) out of form, came out swinging. Indian ODI side has started to think like that. But our test stars are still old fashioned. I reckon once the first wicket falls in the morning, we'll start playing for a draw.

Australia had nothing to lose because if they played for a draw they would have lost the series 1-0. They had no other option but to go for a win in some hopeless attempt to draw the series, and sure enough, they got CRUSHED by 172 runs. "Attitude" and all these ostentatious displays of fake aggression mean nothing when you lose test matches by embarrassing margins of 325 runs and 172 runs. No Indian will ever think of their team as champions. The series is still alive, they may as well save this test and then win the next one.

[Bumper]

Am not underestimating the degree of difficulty associated with chasing a 4th innings target on D5 at Chennai. But I want to see a difference in our attitude. India should no longer be satisfied with a 1-0 series win in a dust bowl at home. If we set ourselves such low targets (that too against a English team -- which is prolly the worst batting lineup against spin among the competent teams), we may continue to be a good team, but will never attain greatness. We have to think that we can win this one. Am asking for a performance or at least an attempt such as this: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/226373.html Look at the body language of the English when Veeru was batting. Look at how he lifted our sagging spirits ? Veeru is a trend setter, he inspires us to greater things, that dont look possible. Why cant the rest learn from Veeru ? Honestly, our opponents are only scared of one fella in this batting lineup. If we want to become a great team, our opponents should be shyte scared of our whole batting lineup. The English felt like that about our ODI team. Result - we whooped them 5-0. If we lose a couple of wickets, we can always shut shop later, but I want India to play positively in the first session.

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[Dhondy]

Didn't Pakistan save the match from an impossible situation at Mohali, getting up to 400+, chasing more than 500? What about when they bumped England in Pakistan after conceding an even bigger lead? Shwetabh, your point therefore that the match was lost in the first inning doesn't stand. This match may not be winnable, but it's savable. India will do neither, but other sides may have.

[Predator_05]

Am not underestimating the degree of difficulty associated with chasing a 4th innings target on D5 at Chennai. But I want to see a difference in our attitude. India should no longer be satisfied with a 1-0 series win in a dust bowl at home. If we set ourselves such low targets (that too against a English team -- which is prolly the worst batting lineup against spin among the competent teams), we may continue to be a good team, but will never attain greatness. We have to think that we can win this one. Am asking for a performance or at least an attempt such as this: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/226373.html Look at the body language of the English when Veeru was batting. Look at how he lifted our sagging spirits ? Veeru is a trend setter, he inspires us to greater things, that dont look possible. Why cant the rest learn from Veeru ? Honestly, our opponents are only scared of one fella in this batting lineup. If we want to become a great team, our opponents should be shyte scared of our whole batting lineup. The English felt like that about our ODI team. Result - we whooped them 5-0. If we lose a couple of wickets, we can always shut shop later, but I want India to play positively in the first session.

That match was played on the flattest pitch imaginable. You can't approach every chase like that. Besides, history tells us that one chase is an exception to the rule. Regarding this bullsh[t about "attitude" - even India attacked at Karachi back in 2006, scoring at nearly 5 an over in the 4th innings. What difference did that make, they still lost by 300+ runs. Attacking in the 4th innings is the last resort when teams have nothing to lose. It may look good to the millions of armchair experts but the result is what people remember. As for Veeru, that's how he always bats. His style never changes - day 1, day 5, 200 run lead or 100 run deficit, he will still play the same way. Nobody in the history of cricket has been able to bat like he does, and the numbers prove it. You are conveniently ignoring his rather average 2nd innings record too. He played a great knock, but these innings of his are too much of a rarity.

[Dhondy]

The Aussies rate Sehwag as the most valuable wicket in the world because he can win a match in one session of play. Pakistani fans loathe him, because he brings back painful memories, because the ROW adore him, and he unfortunately and rather inconveniently happens to be an Indian. You can tell his importance by the extreme emotions he generates.

[The Outsider]

Am not underestimating the degree of difficulty associated with chasing a 4th innings target on D5 at Chennai. But I want to see a difference in our attitude. India should no longer be satisfied with a 1-0 series win in a dust bowl at home. If we set ourselves such low targets (that too against a English team -- which is prolly the worst batting lineup against spin among the competent teams), we may continue to be a good team, but will never attain greatness. We have to think that we can win this one. Am asking for a performance or at least an attempt such as this: http://content-usa.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/match/226373.html Look at the body language of the English when Veeru was batting. Look at how he lifted our sagging spirits ? Veeru is a trend setter, he inspires us to greater things, that dont look possible. Why cant the rest learn from Veeru ? Honestly, our opponents are only scared of one fella in this batting lineup. If we want to become a great team, our opponents should be shyte scared of our whole batting lineup. The English felt like that about our ODI team. Result - we whooped them 5-0. If we lose a couple of wickets, we can always shut shop later, but I want India to play positively in the first session.

Your point taken in the larger context of becoming a great team and all.......but the fact remains we are in a terrible spot as far as this test is concerned and given the difficulty of chasing anything in India in the last innings it would be wise to shut shop for 2-3 hours tomorrow and then if we still are left with the batting resources mount an attack on the target. It's not difficult to chase down 130 runs in the final session but it's more difficult to ensure we get to that final session with minimum damage. As with any project tackle the most difficult part first and the rest would fall in place. See, Sehwag is a genius and an out of form Dravid or an unfit for test matches, Yuvraj, cannot emulate him and it's unrealistic for us to have such expectations from them. Frankly, we are playing this test with Gambhir, Sehwag, Tendulkar, and Laxman as the only batsmen and if you did not get washed up watching Sehwag score last evening you would have noticed that even Gambhir who is in the form of his career, found it so difficult to score on this track.

[Predator_05]

Savable, but not winnable. I'd agree with that. For those of you people with selective memories, here is one instance when India saved a test in an almost identical situation; http://usa.cricinfo.com/db/ARCHIVE/2005-06/ENG_IN_IND/SCORECARDS/ENG_IND_T1_01-05MAR2006.html They can definitely do it, but they should make the match safe before they think about going for a win - just like they did at Nagpur

[Dhondy]

As for Veeru, that's how he always bats. His style never changes - day 1, day 5, 200 run lead or 100 run deficit, he will still play the same way. Nobody in the history of cricket has been able to bat like he does, and the numbers prove it. You are conveniently ignoring his rather average 2nd innings record too. He played a great knock, but these innings of his are too much of a rarity.

They may be a rarity, but when they happen, they are often against the run of the play, solo efforts and have a disproportionate influence on the course of the match. Remember the 158 at Adelaide? And the 4th innings need not be the only testimony to attitude. What about the 201 he scored at Kandy out of a team total of 318, when everybody else looked like they were playing hand grenades?

[Predator_05]

They may be a rarity, but when they happen, they are often against the run of the play, solo efforts and have a disproportionate influence on the course of the match. Remember the 158 at Adelaide? And the 4th innings need not be the only testimony to attitude. What about the 201 he scored at Kandy out of a team total of 318, when everybody else looked like they were playing hand grenades?

Sehwag is one of a kind, but his batting has spoiled us to the extent that we expect every batsman to walk out there and score blazing fifties or hundreds. That's not going to happen. We need to be more realistic. That said, with Dhoni and Yuvraj in the batting lineup, I do feel more confident about India's chances of forcing a win. If Tendulkar, Laxman, Gambhir can get India within 150 runs of England's target and there is enough time left in the day, then these two will definitely win the match for India.

[The Outsider]

Didn't Pakistan save the match from an impossible situation at Mohali, getting up to 400+, chasing more than 500? What about when they bumped England in Pakistan after conceding an even bigger lead? Shwetabh, your point therefore that the match was lost in the first inning doesn't stand. This match may not be winnable, but it's savable. India will do neither, but other sides may have.

3rd innings...flat pitch....this Madras wicket is a turner where a mediocre spinner like Swann is making the ball talk, not to mention the reverse swing which England will get first thing tomorrow morning. Yes, it's savable....but the attitude cannot be like Sehwag's.....the rest of the batting line up does not have the skills to execute that kind of attitude. It has to be a shut shop attitude for at least 2-3 hours. Do you seriously believe guys like Dravid and Yuvraj have the skills to execute what Sehwag did yesterday? We are carrying two passengers in our batting line up at the moment and have to play accordingly.

[Dhondy]

3rd innings...flat pitch....this Madras wicket is a turner where a mediocre spinner like Swann is making the ball talk, not to mention the reverse swing which England will get first thing tomorrow morning. .

Oh c'mon now, don't change the goalposts. The same pitch on which English batsmen have scored three hundreds? Once you get in, the pitch is playing absolutely fine.

[Holysmoke]

Personally, I feel if we go for a draw, we'll end up losing. We have to go for the win from the start, no" play out the first session, then we'll see." Veeru has gotten us the momentum, and its time to be aggressive. We have atleast 4 more than competent batsmen left, and it'll be a shame if we chicken out

[The Outsider]

Oh c'mon now' date=' don't change the goalposts. The same pitch on which English batsmen have scored three hundreds? Once you get in, the pitch is playing absolutely fine.[/quote'] Our spinners dished out crap after Mishra's opening spell. There is enough in the wicket to ensure that bowlers will always be in the game which is enough for a side defending 400. Yes, once the batsmen are in it's not a bad track because the turn is a tad slow.....but look at the English scorecard to see only 3 out of 11 managed to get into double figures.

[Dhondy]

Our spinners dished out crap after Mishra's opening spell. There is enough in the wicket to ensure that bowlers will always be in the game which is enough for a side defending 400. Yes' date=' once the batsmen are in it's not a bad track because the turn is a tad slow.....but look at the English scorecard to see only 3 out of 11 managed to get into double figures.[/quote'] Now you are beginning to sound like Fontaine. The scored heavily only because we bowled badly, etc. etc.

[Cricketics]

Hi guyz, just woke up after about 5 hours of sleep. didn't sleep whole night.. Sehwag was brutal.. Man Dhondy, i agree the way you say that India hasn't done this in the past as you have been watching for quite a lot of time, but i think this is new era of Indian cricket, and we will see them converting such games into victory a lot of times, and this will be the start of it. COME ON INDIA

[The Outsider]

Now you are beginning to sound like Fontaine. The scored heavily only because we bowled badly' date=' etc. etc.[/quote'] Hmmm....so the fact that class act Collingwood managed to score a century has got nothing to do with our poor bowling? If it weren't for Ishant and Zaheer we would have been royally screwed in this test match. Did our premier spinner not bowl badly? I am not taking away credit from England at all. I think they have played superb cricket, but the fact that only 3 out of 11 players from their side managed to get into double figures tells me it's not an easy wicket to get in on, specially when aided by some poor bowling from the opposition.

[ludhianvi]

Hi guyz, just woke up after about 5 hours of sleep. didn't sleep whole night.. Sehwag was brutal.. Man Dhondy, i agree the way you say that India hasn't done this in the past as you have been watching for quite a lot of time, but i think this is new era of Indian cricket, and we will see them converting such games into victory a lot of times, and this will be the start of it. COME ON INDIA

:two_thumbs_up: