Macj Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Indian government should shut the **** up and stop bending over so terrorists can penetrate them I do feel sorry for the Palestinian civilians, but if there is an action, expect a reaction Dude , the PM is just going through the motions, dont be surprised if there was an underhand pat on the back of Israel but a contrasted public stance. After all he has to satisfy 140 million co coreligionists in India right.
f.b.m Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 How refreshing to see people rejoicing and enjoying the murder of innocent people. What next? Does someone want to light a few fiecrackers for each missile that's launched?
fineleg Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 How refreshing to see people rejoicing and enjoying the murder of innocent people. What next? Does someone want to light a few fiecrackers for each missile that's launched? What else you can expect from Modi's Sishyas! Puzzling indeed. If some terror leaders are targeted and captured,punished/killed, then I can understand the celebration. But why would someone celebrate innocent people being killed!? :dontknow: A, B, C belonging to community X killed 1, 2, 3 from community Y Therefore now, 4, 5, 6 from community Y will kill D, E, F from community X (and the original A, B, C will just go scot free) and then repeat the cycle! Madness!
TheBoyPlunger Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Goals Don't Get Less Symmetric Than In Gaza By CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER | Posted Friday, January 02, 2009 4:20 PM PT Late Saturday, thousands of Gazans received Arabic-language cell phone messages from the Israeli military, urging them to leave homes where militants might have stashed weapons. - AP, Dec. 27, 2008 Some geopolitical conflicts are morally complicated. The Israel-Gaza war is not. It possesses a moral clarity not only rare but excruciating. Israel is so scrupulous about civilian life that, risking the element of surprise, it contacts enemy noncombatants in advance to warn them of approaching danger. Hamas, which started this conflict with unrelenting rocket and mortar attacks on unarmed Israelis — 6,464 launched from Gaza in the last three years — deliberately places its weapons in and near the homes of its own people. This has two purposes. First, counting on the moral scrupulousness of Israel, Hamas figures civilian proximity might help protect at least part of its arsenal. Second, knowing that Israelis have new precision weapons that may allow them to attack nonetheless, Hamas hopes that inevitable collateral damage — or, if it is really fortunate, an errant Israeli bomb — will kill large numbers of its own people for which, of course, the world will blame Israel. For Hamas, the only thing more prized than dead Jews are dead Palestinians. The religion of Jew-murder and self-martyrdom is ubiquitous. And deeply perverse, such as the Hamas TV children's program in which an adorable live-action Palestinian Mickey Mouse is beaten to death by an Israeli (then replaced by his more militant cousin, Nahoul the Bee, who vows to continue on Mickey's path to martyrdom). At war today in Gaza, one combatant is committed to causing the most civilian pain and suffering on both sides. The other combatant is committed to saving as many lives as possible — also on both sides. It's a recurring theme. Israel gave similar warnings to Southern Lebanese villagers before attacking Hezbollah in the Lebanon war of 2006. The Israelis did this knowing it would lose for them the element of surprise and cost the lives of their own soldiers. That is the asymmetry of means between Hamas and Israel. But there is equal clarity regarding the asymmetry of ends. Israel has but a single objective in Gaza — peace: the calm, open, normal relations it offered Gaza when it withdrew in 2005. Doing something never done by the Turkish, British, Egyptian and Jordanian rulers of Palestine, the Israelis gave the Palestinians their first sovereign territory ever in Gaza. What ensued? This is not ancient history. Did the Palestinians begin building the state that is supposedly their great national aim? No. No roads, no industry, no courts, no civil society at all. The flourishing greenhouses that Israel left behind for the Palestinians were destroyed and abandoned. Instead, Gaza's Iranian-sponsored rulers have devoted all their resources to turning it into a terror base — importing weapons, training terrorists, building tunnels with which to kidnap Israelis on the other side. And of course firing rockets unceasingly. The grievance? It cannot be occupation, military control or settlers. They were all removed in September 2005. There's only one grievance, and Hamas is open about it. Israel's very existence. Nor does Hamas conceal its strategy. Provoke conflict. Wait for the inevitable civilian casualties. Bring down the world's opprobrium on Israel. Force it into an untenable cease-fire — exactly as happened in Lebanon. Then, as in Lebanon, rearm, rebuild and mobilize for the next round. Perpetual war. Since its raison d'etre is the eradication of Israel, there are only two possible outcomes: the defeat of Hamas or the extinction of Israel. Israel's only response is to try to do what it failed to do after the Gaza withdrawal. The unpardonable strategic error of its architect, Ariel Sharon, was not the withdrawal itself but the failure to immediately establish a deterrence regime under which no violence would be tolerated after the removal of any and all Israeli presence — the ostensible justification for previous Palestinian attacks. Instead, Israel allowed unceasing rocket fire, implicitly acquiescing to a state of active war and indiscriminate terror. Hamas' rejection of an extension of its often-violated six-month cease-fire (during which the rockets never stopped, just were less frequent) gave Israel a rare opportunity to establish the norm it should have insisted upon three years ago: no rockets, no mortar fire, no kidnapping, no acts of war. As the U.S. government has officially stated: a sustainable and enduring cease-fire. If this fighting ends with anything less than that, Israel will have lost again. It can ill afford to lose any more wars.
suraj Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Puzzling indeed. If some terror leaders are targeted and captured,punished/killed, then I can understand the celebration. But why would someone celebrate innocent people being killed!? :dontknow: A, B, C belonging to community X killed 1, 2, 3 from community Y Therefore now, 4, 5, 6 from community Y will kill D, E, F from community X (and the original A, B, C will just go scot free) and then repeat the cycle! Madness! You are so clueless that even for those who want to explain it is hard to figure out where to start; so you have any idea about the history of the conflict, the evolution over the years and the strategic complexities involved here. Maybe if you had spent a lot of time studying the history of Jews who have never wanted more than what they consider is the only piece of land they should live in post all the extermination attempts, being driven out or sent back (including US), trying to defend even that miniscule territory you would understand. Maybe if you had met Palestinian folks who can be the nicest of people but swear that their goal is not to get their land back but rather make sure that every Jew on this planet is extinct, maybe if you had studied the history of how the British created this peoblem and left, what happened in the six day war where not one but several countries united to try and bully one small country, maybe if you had read the mass mocking of the holocaust where millions of Jews died and sarcastic banter on the Muslim forums about it you would realize how difficult the options are and how neccessary it is to support the Israeli moves for not theirs but even our families' sakes. But you won't try to understand and you will not clear your thoughts about how difficult it is when 1 terrorist is hiding among 1000s of sympathizers to target onlly the murderer and not the "innocent" because it is much easier to make moral high statements that face the reality. I admire Israel that has recognized that it is futile to try and explain & prove to every ignorant person of why they have the right to defend themselves but instead just go ahead and defend themselves.
fineleg Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 suraj, You seem to believe only the "end goal" matters - no matter how many casualties, "collateral damage" lives etc seem to not matter. Cmon man, many children also die or badly injured in such attacks? Are they also sympathizers of terror!? And, you know what - you think you'll get the "end goal" this way - sorry boss it will only lead to more 'revenge' by the other guys, and revenge-for-revenge by the next party, and counter revenge for that etc. You really think violence is going to achieve the goals?
suraj Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 suraj, You seem to believe only the "end goal" matters - no matter how many casualties, "collateral damage" lives etc seem to not matter. Cmon man, many children also die or badly injured in such attacks? Are they also sympathizers of terror!? And, you know what - you think you'll get the "end goal" this way - sorry boss it will only lead to more 'revenge' by the other guys, and revenge-for-revenge by the next party, and counter revenge for that etc. You really think violence is going to achieve the goals? As expected and as I mentioned before you completely overlooked the reasons behind what was done, the complexities of why it is not a question of children getting killed but rather whether I will wait for my children to be killed to prove to the fineys of the world that I don't care about end goals or rather I would attack those who have sworn that they will get rid of every last child of mine. Instead you have gone into your usual diatribe of "kill but only kill the evil person- go and try to find out every innocent before you fire" blah blah blah Sorry boss but you know very little and have too little an experience to make all these crap philosophical statements- I already expected that and that is why I stated earlier than you will hardly even try to understand the reality.
fineleg Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 ^ You are being dismissive of other points of view, instead of pausing to consider the ramifications of such attacks. In anycase, the main point that shwetabh, f.b.m, Prudent had also expressed above is that this (attacks) is no reason for rejoicing. There are too many people with militant and jingoistic thinking around - that sometimes I think milkman aka GKD is right in stating that one race will destroy another and vice versa. There just seems to be too much hatred and violence all around.
graphic23 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 It is not a matter of rejoicing. But then again, how many Israelis do you see killed everyday now? For them, it is a matter of survival. I am extremely disheartened by the images that are shown of the women, children that are killed in these airstrikes, but there is little else that Israel can do.
punjabi_khota Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 ^ You are being dismissive of other points of view' date=' instead of pausing to [u']consider the ramifications of such attacks. In anycase, the main point that shwetabh, f.b.m, Prudent had also expressed above is that this (attacks) is no reason for rejoicing. There are too many people with militant and jingoistic thinking around - that sometimes I think milkman aka GKD is right in stating that one race will destroy another and vice versa. There just seems to be too much hatred and violence all around. What race are you talking about ? Last checked, both Israelis and Palestinians are human race. The act by Israel is no jingoism. And this truce was broken by Hamas. Israel had no choice but to strike back. There is no other way to teach those bastards to behave. Once Israel takes out few more leaders of Hamas, truce can again be decided upon, this time with strict conditions and penalities on any violations. The Hamas leaders have to be the most cowardly mother****ers on planet. They fire rockets from densely populated areas, and then disappear to their safe havens, only for the general public to suffer. No rejoicing for me, but more power to Israel, Inshallah. They are doing something India can only dream of doing in POK. For them, it is a matter of survival. We can take more blows. Or can we ? They will probably attack Iran's nuclear facilities too. If only we had been able to do the same to Pakistan's facilities, we would not have been so powerless in the current environment, when we cannot do anything inspite of having proof of continued Pak involvement in every terror incident in India, and having details of terrorist camps in POK and elsewhere in Pakistan. If only...
King Tendulkar Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Israle is defending its people. And rightly so
milkman Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Full support for Israel from me. Most peope killed were Hamas foot soldiers. Kids getting killed is sad but the blame goes 100% to Hamas and the people who elected a jihadi terrorist organization whose aim is to completely destroy Israel. To put it buntly there is a global low and high intensity conflict happening between Humanity and Islam. Pick a side and shut it. No amount of boot licking is going to save you when you come in the firing line of Islamists. Talk is cheap when your own head is not on the line. On the other hand if you are intending to submit to Islam and it's bigotry then I can understand why you are jumping up and down and crying foul. The same liberals who are fuming right now were mumb when "freedom of speech" was getting blasted by Islamic facists in Europe.
Ram Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 A state sponsored genocide is going on and the whole world's is sitting with its hands underneath its bottom. Hamas is no angel, but Israel effectively killed the prospect of peace in the middle-east for another 2 years with this operation.
kumble_rocks Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 A state sponsored genocide is going on and the whole world's is sitting with its hands underneath its bottom. Hamas is no angel, but Israel effectively killed the prospect of peace in the middle-east for another 2 years with this operation. Agreed , but with all due respect , can posters like yourself , Fineleg etc at the very least comment on the hypocrisy of Muslims. Where is the protest for Darfur or for that matter genocide of Kurds? Far more muslims have been slaughtered by other muslims in Darfur than Israel Palestine confilct. Do you see any protests by muslim countries. I think the SE asian muslims have become slaves to their Arab masters. Arabs decide on an agenda and these shameless SE asians especially Pakis will simply follow suit. No originality whatsoever. You are quick to criticize USA and sometimes rightly so , but you should also have moral gumption to call out on these muslims who suffer from selective victim mentality. These samples will ignore Shia slaughter by Sunnis , Kurd slaughter , or black muslim genocide , but scream bloody murder when it comes to Israel.
Ram Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Agreed ' date= but can posters like yourself , Fineleg etc at the very least comment on the hypocrisy of Muslims. Where is the protest for Darfur or for that matter genocide of Kurds? Far more muslims have been slaughtered by other muslims in Darfur than Israel Palestine confilct. Do you see any protests by muslim countries. I think the SE asian muslims have become slaves to their Arab masters. Arabs decide on an agenda and these shameless SE asians especially Pakis will simply follow suit. No originality whatsoever. You are quick to criticize USA and sometimes rightly so , but you should also have moral gumption to call out on these muslims who suffer from selective victim mentality. Oh Absolutely. When a Danish daily publishes cartoon of the Prophet Mohammed, the whole Muslim world is up in arms. There are protests EVERYWHERE. But, when a Sunni insurgent goes to a Shia Mosque in Iraq and blows up 50 people on the eve of an important Muslim religious event, there's hardly a whimper.
King Tendulkar Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Well MM has also declared he knows absolutley nothing on the religion of islam as well. Which begs the question why he partakes in these islamic debates. Also clearly has no understanding about the islamic mindset and how that contributes to their jihadi movements across the world including this one of Palestine. As islam is deeply woven in to these struggles and is a major issue in any debate on this
Ram Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Well MM has also declared he knows absolutley nothing on the religion of islam as well. Which begs the question why he partakes in these islamic debates. Also clearly has no understanding about the islamic mindset and how that contributes to their jihadi movements acroos the world including this one of Palestine Yes, Mr. Double Doctorate on Islamic studies Arent you the one with the 'Well, Israel gave 91% of land to Palestine', without even knowing what that 91% was made of?
King Tendulkar Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes, Mr. Double Doctorate on Islamic studies Arent you the one with the 'Well, Israel gave 91% of land to Palestine', without even knowing what that 91% was made of? No i did know that. You decided to presume I did not know that. As you also decided that you were a mind reader as well. Supporting a group that is in favour of mass genocide/ethnic cleansing. Shame on you
Ram Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I think its time for me to Bump some threads and get some answers. P.S; Oh I forgot, Shame on me..:haha:
Guest dada_rocks Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Yes, Mr. Double Doctorate on Islamic studies Arent you the one with the 'Well, Israel gave 91% of land to Palestine', without even knowing what that 91% was made of? You are talking like Jihadi mate.. day by day your jihadi quotient is going up..
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