fineleg Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 btw, macj - who is that in your profile picture?
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 really! ...you seem to know quite some interesting info. never knew sambar is a marathi origin dish. Well i took an interest in learning grassroots history of South Indian states after finding some interesting lineage in my own family who also came from North India almost 600 years ago.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 btw' date=' macj - who is that in your profile picture?[/quote'] M. K. Thyagaraja Bhagavathar a very fine singer of Tamil songs in the 40s and 50s.
fineleg Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 MKT - some nice songs he has sung - i guess movies used to have 10-12+ songs when he acted, LOL! :D
Ram Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Oh God.. now its where someone is born and what language someone speaks... Its not as though T.N born, Tamizh speaking politicians are the cleanest, best administrators giving the people the BEST govt. possible. Of course they dont. Most of them are criminals. I dont care if my CM is even a martian. All I care is whether he/she gives good Governance. It is this stupid, short-sighted approach of not entertaining 'outsiders' and the misplaced sense of pride that is probably robbing us of some real good politicians who are truly interested in good governance.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Oh God.. now its where someone is born and what language someone speaks... Its not as though T.N born, Tamizh speaking politicians are the cleanest, best administrators giving the people the BEST govt. possible. Of course they dont. Most of them are criminals. I dont care if my CM is even a martian. All I care is whether he/she gives good Governance. It is this stupid, short-sighted approach of not entertaining 'outsiders' and the misplaced sense of pride that is probably robbing us of some real good politicians who are truly interested in good governance. Unfortunately you do not know the travails of TN then. The humiliation suffered by some people for the same reasons you now claim shouldnt be a reason to begin with is quite prevalent in TN. I blame them for their hypocrisy, thats it.
Ram Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Unfortunately you do not know the travails of TN then. The humiliation suffered by some people for the same reasons you now claim shouldnt be a reason to begin with is quite prevalent in TN. I blame them for their hypocrisy, thats it. I quite dont understand. Who suffered humiliation at the hands of whom? And who's the hypocrite? P.S; And yes I do know about travails of T.N. I am from there.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 I quite dont understand. Who suffered humiliation at the hands of whom? And who's the hypocrite? P.S; And yes I do know about travails of T.N. I am from there. Why were the Brahmins who have lived there since God knows when suddenly non-Tamilians and oppressed? Why were they suddenly the foreigners when they speak Tamil outside and at home, yet its fine for Vaiko and co to spout their Tamil-ness. The DMK also attempted to impose Tamil in all temples , why dont they impose Tamil in all Mosques? DK DMK and all so called Dravidian rationalist parties are the hypocrites.
Ram Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Why were the Brahmins who have lived there since God knows when suddenly non-Tamilians and oppressed? Why were they suddenly the foreigners when they speak Tamil outside and at home, yet its fine for Vaiko and co to spout their Tamil-ness. The DMK also attempted to impose Tamil in all temples , why dont they impose Tamil in all Mosques? DK DMK and all so called Dravidian rationalist parties are the hypocrites. All the anti-brahmin stuff you have mentioned was mostly done by the Dravida Kazhagam and its off-shoots. Besides, whats this got to do with allowing non-native Tamizh speakers to be part of the govt. in Tamil Nadu? If anything, the worst anti-brahmin torchbearers of the Dravidian movement were Periyaar and Kalaignar. And both of them were born in T.N and spoke Tamizh as their native language.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 All the anti-brahmin stuff you have mentioned was mostly done by the Dravida Kazhagam and its off-shoots. Besides' date=' whats this got to do with allowing non-native Tamizh speakers to be part of the govt. in Tamil Nadu? If anything, the worst anti-brahmin torchbearers of the Dravidian movement were Periyaar and Kalaignar. And both of them were born in T.N and spoke Tamizh as their native language.[/quote'] Karunanidhi also has Telugu roots and Periyar was a Kannadiga. The point is this, on one hand a community like the Brahmins lived in TN for over 2 millenia is suddenly foreign, yet these recent arrivals are accepted , thats the hypocrisy i dislike. Hence I do not support them politically.
Ram Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Karunanidhi also has Telugu roots and Periyar was a Kannadiga. The point is this, on one hand a community like the Brahmins lived in TN for over 2 millenia is suddenly foreign, yet these recent arrivals are accepted , thats the hypocrisy i dislike. Hence I do not support them politically. You're confusing one basic thing here. The anti-brahmin thingy gained ground because they were considered 'Upper class' Hindus. So, this was more a 'Upper class vs Lower class' phenomenon, rather than a ' Native Tamizh speakers vs Non-native Tamizh Speakers'.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 You're confusing one basic thing here. The anti-brahmin thingy gained ground because they were considered 'Upper class' Hindus. So' date=' this was more a 'Upper class vs Lower class' phenomenon, rather than a ' Native Tamizh speakers vs Non-native Tamizh Speakers'.[/quote'] Naidus, Reddiars, Thevars and Chettiars are also Forward castes, yet they weren't branded as non-Tamils.
fineleg Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 Macj, Are u saying this was more than caste based politics (based on whether they had telugu, kannada, marathi etc. origins)? You think that made a difference? Caste and communal politics have been India's bane. More power to love marriages which is one weapon to disband strongly entrenched cast and religion barriers all over India.
Macj Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Macj, Are u saying this was more than caste based politics (based on whether they had telugu, kannada, marathi etc. origins)? You think that made a difference? Caste and communal politics have been India's bane. More power to love marriages which is one weapon to disband strongly entrenched cast and religion barriers all over India. I think it was an act of extreme retribution against one particular caste for past ills, a scapegoat to get votes. Brahmins are certainly not free of blame, but Im just saying the level of accusations hurled against them and the justification does not hold water when the same comparison is made of other communities who are genuinely non native to TN. Another e.g. The Labbai Muslims of TN speak Urdu, yet the DK rooted parties have no problem and do not interfere in their affairs, yet the Sanskritic traditions of Brahmins are ruthlessly suppressed.
punjabi_khota Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 TN has a very highly caste based politics from what I see. Don't they have like 70% reservations in colleges and a bunch of castes in the reserved category. I never understood how that came to be. Are all those castes historically oppressed ?
fineleg Posted January 22, 2009 Author Posted January 22, 2009 I'm not sure if TN is the only such state, but certainly TN has lot of caste based politics, and its ridiculous. Instead of voting on basis of policies and administration abilities, stoopid to vote based on caste and communal basis, but such cra.p definitely happens. Reservation should be based on economic status... - basing it on caste is B.S. If you have people who are poor, give them help for education etc. irrespective of what their caste is . Why give reservation to caste even if someone there can afford to pay for education and are rich? Nothing but vote bank politics.
Ram Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 TN has a very highly caste based politics from what I see. Don't they have like 70% reservations in colleges and a bunch of castes in the reserved category. I never understood how that came to be. Are all those castes historically oppressed ? T.N has the probably the WORST reservation policy in the whole country, both for employment in state agencies and for admission into govt. and private colleges. All our reservation quotas are well above national average. To give you an example, in 2002, a student belonging to a Backward class (BC) or Most backward class (MBC) had to get anywhere b/w 220-250 in the engineering cut-off marks to be assured admission into the top govt. and private engineering colleges of the state. A student belonging to the upper caste (Referred to as OC or other classes), had to get anywhere b/w 287-292 to get that very same engineering, in that very same engineering college. Thats the most stupidest thing I've seen. What the govt. is essentially doing is massively short-changing the really talented students, who worked their backs off to get good scores in their high-school and giving preference for students who didnt score well, just because they belonged to so and so class. Thats nonsense. All it does is produce an entire generation of substandard engineers. Ultimately, its our nation that is going to pay the price for such blighted policy.
Ram Posted January 22, 2009 Posted January 22, 2009 Naidus' date=' Reddiars, Thevars and Chettiars are also Forward castes, yet they weren't branded as non-Tamils.[/quote'] The Dravidian movement needed a bogeyman and they found a convenient one in the Brahmins. But beyond that, you're majorly confusing the caste issue and the language issue.
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