seedhi Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 It matters a lot because Indian people like positivity and hate negativity nowadays .. I agree that BJP has not lost much seats (less than 20) but Congress has cut through the Third and Fourth front thereby gaining huge amount of seats ... but still a negative campaign will always be detrimental for any party .. for example there were some basic things in the campaign which could never digested in the negative campaign .. BJP said that the job losses in India during recession was due to Congress at govt. which sounded funny to any normal educated person .. the whole world was going through a severe recession and India has done very well to lessen the affects of recession .. but there will still be some job losses due to worldwide recession .. blaming the Congress for the job losses was surely a negative as well foolish campaign ... if they wanted they could have promised jobs to more people when they come to power instead of attacking the Congress on job losses during recession.. there were several other similar things in their campaign which were merely negative instead of being positive... that has surely affected the pysche of the educated voter who voted for the positive campaign of the Congress instead I agree, partially in hindsight, BJP was shriller than needed and attacked MMS a tad too often. But I think you are overhyping this as a reason for its poor showing. It certainly did not affect the BJP in Bangalore. Be that as it may BJP definitely needs to change strategy. Bringing on Modi will be an even bigger blunder because in next elections NDA will face an even more powerful leader in Rahul Gandhi .. Modi will never go well with all sections of society whereas Rahul Gandhi has mass appeal throughout India .. Rahul Gandhi is one of the main reasons for Congress success in this elections and he is growing bigger as a mass leader year after year .. if he continues his present work he might sweep the elections in 2014 .. so a mass leader would be needed in the next elections .. I dont see any BJP leader at present who has that aura .. Atalji was the only charismatic leader and hopefully a young leader will emerge in BJP in this 5 years .. Nitish Kumar is emerging as a mass leader but I dont think he will be projected as a PM candidate in 2014 The next elections will be decided on the basis of performance of 10 years of Congress. And to project a developmental face Narendra Modi fits the bill. But he needs to do two things, get elected to Lok Sabha ans become leader of opposition ASAP and ensure that BJP continues to perform in Gujarat. The campains were not based on developement .. for example none of the TV ads had any mention of developement for the country once they comes to power .. they were more so as negative ads instead of positive developemental ads Maybe their strategy was to expose congress on development, but didnt focus on their alternative. Clearly it failed. My main contention was that Varun Gandhi issue was not pre-planned but was thrust upon the BJP which diverted from whatever agenda it had. I seriously believe that Arun Jaitley is a leader who has mass appeal.. he is educated and takes wise decisions .. maybe he should be projected as PM candidate in the next elections .. but I dont know if the fight inside BJP will end easily because only then will this be possible.. Rajnath does not appeal to anybody and it would be a grave mistake if he is experimented in next election LOL! Jaitley has zero mass appeal. I dont think he has even won Lok Sabha elections. He should spend the next five years on the ground building up the party in UP or Andhra, rather than giving TV interviews. Modi is the only one who can mount a future challenge, given that he becomes leader of opposition soon enough. Shiv Sena is a dead horse after the end of Bal Thakerey .. MNS might take its place instead (which I also hate because MNS is based on regionalism) .. BJP will have to win allies .. but the problem is that political parties knows that they might have to face disaster by joining BJP as an ally .. the best thing is that BJP works from the grass roots now and lets go off the things like hindutva which are irrelevant to people of the 21st century .. they will have to realize that it is the 21st century and Indians have become educated .. literacy rate will increase with time and developement will continue irrespective to whoever is in the centre .. so these issues like religion, caste etc. will not make sense to any educated person in the 21st century .. so BJP has to work on the grass roots and reform all the policies which are irrelevant to the 21st century Why give up Hindutva which has given the party strongholds like Gujarat and Karnataka? Instead the Karnataka model needs to be replicated in other states like AP. Ofcourse focus on development should be there but core issues should be maintained. But the idiots in Bajrang Dal and VHP need to be restrained as they do a great disservice to Hindutva, which then becomes a liability for the BJP.
ViruRulez Posted May 17, 2009 Author Posted May 17, 2009 The next elections will be decided on the basis of performance of 10 years of Congress. And to project a developmental face Narendra Modi fits the bill. But he needs to do two things, get elected to Lok Sabha ans become leader of opposition ASAP and ensure that BJP continues to perform in Gujarat. Narendra Modi cannot properly fit into that role because he has no chance to stand against against a mass leader like Rahul Gandhi .. even if you listened to his election rallies this year it sounded more funny than inspiring. He was saying "Congress sawaso saal ki budiya hai" and then she called Congress "gudiya party" .. he was seriously sounding more funny instead of looking like a developemental leader .. Rahul Gandhi on the other hand was speaking about developement, common man, growth etc. and it made more sense .. Modi has surely no chance against Rahul Gandhi .. I still believe Arun Jaitley will be a better bet.. Jaitley has got charisma, he is a lot more educated and talks more sense.. BJP should project Jaitley as the leader of opposition if it fancies any chances of winning in 2014 Maybe their strategy was to expose congress on development, but didnt focus on their alternative. Clearly it failed. My main contention was that Varun Gandhi issue was not pre-planned but was thrust upon the BJP which diverted from whatever agenda it had. Frankly speaking India had been going through the best phase of economic developement for four of the last five years .. there was almost 9% economic growth in India for those 5 years which is merely phenomenal .. recession came and the economic growth of India was decreased was but obvious.. so attacking the govt. based on developement was not the right ploy .. they should have instead projected what better they could do if they were voted to govt. Varun issue could easily have been negated if BJP would have rejected him a Lok Sabha ticket .. Congress had also taken away tickets to Tytler and Sajjan Kumar as per advise from Sheila Dixit which resulted in clean sweep of Delhi by Congress yet again ... similarly Varun Gandhi should have been rejected a ticket .. anyways Varun was not even a candidate at that time so not giving a ticket to him was anyways not a problem at all ... he should have been rested at least for this election .. he was instead used as a star campaigner after his release from jail .. BJP embarassed itself and surely could have not done this things.. maybe Varun Gandhi issue was forced but they could have simply kept that aside and moved ahead which they did not do LOL! Jaitley has zero mass appeal. I dont think he has even won Lok Sabha elections. He should spend the next five years on the ground building up the party in UP or Andhra, rather than giving TV interviews. Modi is the only one who can mount a future challenge, given that he becomes leader of opposition soon enough. How can you say mass appeal or not when he is not even projected .. I have always respected Jaitley and most educated people would accept it.. it is like saying Manmohan does not have mass appeal .. it is not about mass appeal but it is more that how good is he seen as a leader by a common man .. Jaitley is a highly educated youth leader and he has got charisma which is needed .. he is respected by people from all sections of society which itself adds to the mass appeal .. I think he is the best option right now .. you can say zero appeal for Rajnath Singh but surely not Jaitley Why give up Hindutva which has given the party strongholds like Gujarat and Karnataka? Instead the Karnataka model needs to be replicated in other states like AP. Ofcourse focus on development should be there but core issues should be maintained. But the idiots in Bajrang Dal and VHP need to be restrained as they do a great disservice to Hindutva, which then becomes a liability for the BJP. Gujarat and Karnataka are becoming strongholds due to developement and not for hindutva .. any govt. which work on developement will survive from now onwards .. Naveen Patnaik swept the whole Orissa assembly elections today without even a coalition .. it was only possible because he provided developement to the people of Orissa.. similarly Nitish Kumar, Sheila Dixit etc. also swept their respective states and all those were because of developement and good governance instead of religion, caste, creed etc. .. India is growing and becoming more educated day by day.. in this 21st century all the votes based on caste, creed, religion etc. will decrease as people becomes more and more educated .. people do not give much importance to all these things in the modern era and so importance of Hindutva will decrease with time .. so they should focus on developement instead of Hindutva if they fancy to come to power in 2014
seedhi Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Narendra Modi cannot properly fit into that role because he has no chance to stand against against a mass leader like Rahul Gandhi .. even if you listened to his election rallies this year it sounded more funny than inspiring. He was saying "Congress sawaso saal ki budiya hai" and then she called Congress "gudiya party" .. he was seriously sounding more funny instead of looking like a developemental leader .. Rahul Gandhi on the other hand was speaking about developement, common man, growth etc. and it made more sense .. Modi has surely no chance against Rahul Gandhi .. I still believe Arun Jaitley will be a better bet.. Jaitley has got charisma, he is a lot more educated and talks more sense.. BJP should project Jaitley as the leader of opposition if it fancies any chances of winning in 2014 Firstly, Rahul Gandhi failed to unseat Modi in 2007 Gujarat elections, so I dont buy your argument that Modi does not stand any chance. Secondly, Modi is not a nationwide leader as he has not been projected outside Gujarat. He needs to become leader of opposition for 5 years which will automatically give him national prominence. Lastly, I dont think you have heard any of Modi's speeches this elections because he consistently focussed on development of Gujarat and various schemes for 90% of his speeches. It is another fact that only the political and satirical parts of his speeches get reported in the media. Frankly speaking India had been going through the best phase of economic developement for four of the last five years .. there was almost 9% economic growth in India for those 5 years which is merely phenomenal .. recession came and the economic growth of India was decreased was but obvious.. so attacking the govt. based on developement was not the right ploy .. they should have instead projected what better they could do if they were voted to govt. I agree, they should have focused more on their alternative than just being in attack mode. Varun issue could easily have been negated if BJP would have rejected him a Lok Sabha ticket .. Congress had also taken away tickets to Tytler and Sajjan Kumar as per advise from Sheila Dixit which resulted in clean sweep of Delhi by Congress yet again ... similarly Varun Gandhi should have been rejected a ticket .. anyways Varun was not even a candidate at that time so not giving a ticket to him was anyways not a problem at all ... he should have been rested at least for this election .. he was instead used as a star campaigner after his release from jail .. BJP embarassed itself and surely could have not done this things.. maybe Varun Gandhi issue was forced but they could have simply kept that aside and moved ahead which they did not do Again the Varun issue was a bolt from the blue. I dont know if denying him the ticket could have salvaged anything, the damage was done by his speech itself and the UP result can be partially attributed to it. How can you say mass appeal or not when he is not even projected .. I have always respected Jaitley and most educated people would accept it.. it is like saying Manmohan does not have mass appeal .. it is not about mass appeal but it is more that how good is he seen as a leader by a common man .. Jaitley is a highly educated youth leader and he has got charisma which is needed .. he is respected by people from all sections of society which itself adds to the mass appeal .. I think he is the best option right now .. you can say zero appeal for Rajnath Singh but surely not Jaitley Has Jaitley won any Lok Sabha elections? No! Manmohan Singh had 5 years of PMship behind him as an asset, what will Jaitley have to show for his record - that he was a backroom strategist of the BJP or the Law minister which no one remembers? BJP needs someone with a stellar record as CM with a mass base and Modi is the only one who fits the bill. While Jaitley is more preferable than Rajnath, he is more self centered considering his bickering and refusal to run for Delhi CMship last year. Gujarat and Karnataka are becoming strongholds due to developement and not for hindutva .. any govt. which work on developement will survive from now onwards .. Naveen Patnaik swept the whole Orissa assembly elections today without even a coalition .. it was only possible because he provided developement to the people of Orissa.. similarly Nitish Kumar, Sheila Dixit etc. also swept their respective states and all those were because of developement and good governance instead of religion, caste, creed etc. .. India is growing and becoming more educated day by day.. in this 21st century all the votes based on caste, creed, religion etc. will decrease as people becomes more and more educated .. people do not give much importance to all these things in the modern era and so importance of Hindutva will decrease with time .. so they should focus on developement instead of Hindutva if they fancy to come to power in 2014 Without Hindutva both Gujarat and Karnataka would have been impossible. BJP needs to revert to Hindutva at least in states like AP to emerge as an alternative there. And stop expedient wooing of allies like TDP.
coffee_rules Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 far better having those Modi the killer of innocent people or Advani the Shame on Indian Securalism... I think people like you deserve a leader like Sonia Gundi.
seedhi Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 I think people like you deserve a leader like Sonia Gundi.I am an ardent BJP supporter but this is no way to refer to Sonia Gandhi. Bitterness in defeat should not mean giving up decency. From my side I wish her well, in any case power has shifted to Rahul and she probably will have only a peripheral role in the future.
kumble_rocks Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 BJP reminds me of the Republicans ! Their voice is lost among the majority . All we hear is the the cacophony of Limabugh , Coulter and other far right. If Republicans have to be the majority again , they will have to embrace the Hispanics and be more lax on immigration and women's rights to choose , gay rights etc. Granted McCain was all that to some extent, but he could never lose the Iraq war baggage. After all he was the original proponent of the war and the subsequent surge. What BJP needs needs is more centrists like Vajpayee who was actually opposed to masjid destruction , was opposed to Modi aftermath the riots and who atleast had some muslim support. Looks like Modi is not the answer, others like Jaitley lacks mass appeal , Advani is done and dusted. BJP would be better served if the drop the Sena as well.
seedhi Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 BJP reminds me of the Republicans ! Their voice is lost among the majority . All we hear is the the cacophony of Limabugh , Coulter and other far right. If Republicans have to be the majority again , they will have to embrace the Hispanics and be more lax on immigration and women's rights. Granted McCain was all that , but he could never lose the Iraq war baggage. After all he was the proponent of the War and the surge. What BJP needs is more centrists like Vajpayee who was actually opposed to temple destruction , was opposed to Modi, aftermath the riots and who atleast had some muslim support. Looks like Modi is not the answer, others like Jaitley lacks mass appeal , Advani is done and dusted. BJP would be better served if the drop the Sena as well. hmm.. Modi is the only option though for the BJP.
umpire Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 You don't need national appeal.. What BJP has to do is produce good leaders in each state. Voters this time around have voted based on local and state issues. Just look at the pattern.
King Tendulkar Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Wrong main reason they lost is congress have rahul and priyanka. They have the gandhi name. Indians would vote for the family dog of the gandhis as well if it was the leader.
Desi Cartman Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Wrong main reason they lost is congress have rahul and priyanka. They have the gandhi name. Indians would vote for the family dog of the gandhis as well if it was the leader. given a choice between a dog and Varun gandhi , I think I might actually vote for the dog.
Lurker Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 You don't need national appeal..What BJP has to do is produce good leaders in each state. Voters this time around have voted based on local and state issues. Just look at the pattern. That, to be put it simply, is BULLSHIT. A month, or two, ago BJP fans had made this election as Manmohan vs Advani. How many times did you run into the article as to how there should be a debate between Manmohan and Advani?? How many times did you see Advani having a go at Manmohan? Calling the latter anything from a weak to a puppet leader etc etc. The fact is the move backfired big time in the face of BJP. Most Indians, even those who do not like Manmohan, rallied around the latter because for all his ills he is widely seen as a decent man who has evoked India's economic revival. At the same time it almost forced Manmohan Singh to come out of his soft demeanor and launch a scathing attack on BJP. And so when Advani yepled 26/11 Mumbai attack Manmohan brought out Kandahar and how Vajpayee was sleeping, Jaswant Singh was escorting the terrorists to Afganistan and Advani was suggesting he was not kept in confidence on the issue. Suddenly Indians were reminded of an incident (Kandahar) that happened 10 years ago, arguably the most humiliating experience of modern day Indians. Jaitley had once famously said that going after Manmohan is not worth for BJP. Turns out BJP now has 5 years to soak that lesson in. xxxx
coffee_rules Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 If you think this is a mandate for Singh/Congress. then you are grossly uninformed. Look at each state where Congress has won. It's mostly a 3-pronged or 4-pronged race. Congress has benefitted mostly by the number of parties fielding candidates and her vote base is still the same.
seedhi Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 That, to be put it simply, is BULLSHIT. A month, or two, ago BJP fans had made this election as Manmohan vs Advani. How many times did you run into the article as to how there should be a debate between Manmohan and Advani?? How many times did you see Advani having a go at Manmohan? Calling the latter anything from a weak to a puppet leader etc etc. The fact is the move backfired big time in the face of BJP. Most Indians, even those who do not like Manmohan, rallied around the latter because for all his ills he is widely seen as a decent man who has evoked India's economic revival. At the same time it almost forced Manmohan Singh to come out of his soft demeanor and launch a scathing attack on BJP. And so when Advani yepled 26/11 Mumbai attack Manmohan brought out Kandahar and how Vajpayee was sleeping, Jaswant Singh was escorting the terrorists to Afganistan and Advani was suggesting he was not kept in confidence on the issue. Suddenly Indians were reminded of an incident (Kandahar) that happened 10 years ago, arguably the most humiliating experience of modern day Indians. Jaitley had once famously said that going after Manmohan is not worth for BJP. Turns out BJP now has 5 years to soak that lesson in. xxxx Then how is it that the biggest gains of the Congress have come at the expense of Left and third front? Why did Chhattisgarh vote overwhelmingly for BJP? Why was congress trounced in Bihar? Why did the EDUCATED electorate of Bangalore and in Karnataka vote for BJP? Jharkhand voted for BJP. Himachal voted for BJP. Just look at the individual states and it is clear that elections were mostly fought on local issues with an undercurrent of preference for national parties which led to massive congress gains against the left and third front, not against the BJP. The days when there was a single national issue are long gone, now general elections are a aggregate of 28 state elections. Not just me, this is a widely held opinions even among most pundits.
Lurker Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 Just look at the individual states and it is clear that elections were mostly fought on local issues with an undercurrent of preference for national parties which led to massive congress gains against the left and third front, not against the BJP. The days when there was a single national issue are long gone, now general elections are a aggregate of 28 state elections. Not just me, this is a widely held opinions even among most pundits. Ah how the tines change!! Suddenly a loss makes even the ardent fan drop the surname Advani and go after "single national issues are long gone". Which National issue are you talking by the way?? When was the last time BJP raised a "National" issue?? Ram Temple?? Get real pal. Then how is it that the biggest gains of the Congress have come at the expense of Left and third front? Why did Chhattisgarh vote overwhelmingly for BJP? Why was congress trounced in Bihar? Why did the EDUCATED electorate of Bangalore and in Karnataka vote for BJP? Jharkhand voted for BJP. Himachal voted for BJP. Why was Congress trounced in Bihar? Errr because it does not have a single leader of stature in the State perhaps?? Surely there is no voter out there who would simply because of a Central leadership. There are multiple reasons why any sane voter votes, one of them is how he relates to people in his local area. There is NO local Congressi leader worth its name in Bihar. On the other hand in the states that did have a local Congress leadership they rallied around Manmohan Singh. Simple. Jharkhand now. BJP has always been a strong force in the region. It is not exactly that they surfaced all of a sudden. Again no surprises on this one. Long story short any election is decided on multiple issues, not one. And I would be very interested if you could pick me any assessment of 2009 elections that does NOT highlight the fact that Advani, and BJP, grossly erred in going after Manmohan Singh and are not paying the penalty. xxx
Lurker Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 If you think this is a mandate for Singh/Congress. then you are grossly uninformed. Look at each state where Congress has won. It's mostly a 3-pronged or 4-pronged race. Congress has benefitted mostly by the number of parties fielding candidates and her vote base is still the same. Nothing new about the vote base. That is true for every political party. This obviously is a mandate for Congress, if not Manmohan Singh. Anytime a party wins 200 seats on its own it is a mandate, not overwhelming of course but still miles ahead of every other party out there. A very interesting thing I have observed is not many Indians seem to be shocked by Congress win (or BJP's loss). The general feeling is a sense of happiness and a thought of having a stable Govt ahead of two bit parties that hold Govt ransome. You do not get that kind of stability by simply being lucky, that too in a 714 million electoral college. Congress earned the mandate, pure and simple. xxx
varun Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 BJP reminds me of the Republicans ! Their voice is lost among the majority . All we hear is the the cacophony of Limabugh , Coulter and other far right. If Republicans have to be the majority again , they will have to embrace the Hispanics and be more lax on immigration and women's rights to choose , gay rights etc. Granted McCain was all that to some extent, but he could never lose the Iraq war baggage. After all he was the original proponent of the war and the subsequent surge. What BJP needs needs is more centrists like Vajpayee who was actually opposed to masjid destruction , was opposed to Modi aftermath the riots and who atleast had some muslim support. Looks like Modi is not the answer, others like Jaitley lacks mass appeal , Advani is done and dusted. BJP would be better served if the drop the Sena as well. I have noticed these similarities as well KR.. You are spot on !
King Tendulkar Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 given a choice between a dog and Varun gandhi ' date=' I think I might actually vote for the dog.[/quote'] You know what I mean. The gandhi clan as in Rahul and co. Will win any election due to their surname. The voters pile in to vote for the family, irrespective of policies and performances. So BJP sadly has no hope as the admiration for the royal family is simply to much. They are worshipped. So I maintain if they put the family dog up for election it would win simply due to being a gandhi. Congress will dominate for 40 years now. I think Rahul will never lose an election and probably rule for 40 straight years. Nothing BJP can do! No doubt Rahul a couple of years before next election will become PM and sweep the next elections. Probably will make congress get 272 seats on his own! Only hope is once in power people will get bored of him. Anyway we have years ahead of appeasment to terrorists and fundamnetal islamists. No action will be taken to stop terrorism and co. Kasab will probably be freed not to upset muslims and destroy their vote bank
King Tendulkar Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 BJP are sadly doomed. Impossible to compete against the gandhi surname, the voters flock to vote for it!! Clearly modi cant be next leader. Hate against him is to much and he would not be able to gather coalition partners as they cant risk alinging with him in fear of losing their muslim vote bank which are much needed for many regional players. I think they should do following. As secular baloney has to be countered. 1. Throw varun out of party and make a real show of doing this. 2. Distance modi to back ground of party 3. Appoint a female leader to soften the image 4. [Mod Edit: WTF !!] Otherwise without point 4 above I believe the situation is hopeless and Rahul will rule for 40 years straight. It will also mean that after every rahul win we will have to endure Burkha Dutt giggling like a school girl with such happiness.
cowboysfan Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 BJP are sadly doomed. Impossible to compete against the gandhi surname, the voters flock to vote for it!! Clearly modi cant be next leader. Hate against him is to much and he would not be able to gather coalition partners as they cant risk alinging with him in fear of losing their muslim vote bank which are much needed for many regional players. I think they should do following. As secular baloney has to be countered. 1. Throw varun out of party and make a real show of doing this. 2. Distance modi to back ground of party 3. Appoint a female leader to soften the image 4. [Edited by Mod] Otherwise without point 4 above I believe the situation is hopeless and Rahul will rule for 40 years straight. It will also mean that after every rahul win we will have to endure Burkha Dutt giggling like a school girl with such happiness. thats a horrible thing to say man-you should be ashamed of yourself-just pathetic.
King Tendulkar Posted May 17, 2009 Posted May 17, 2009 thats a horrible thing to say man-you should be ashamed of yourself-just pathetic. Get a sense of humour!! IT WAS A JOKE!!!! Just emphasising how impossible it is to defeat Congess now JOKE
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