cochise Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Are u a Sikh?didn't know that I drink, I smoke, I eat meat, I have a crew cut...but I also have a kara on my hand that has been there since 1982....that I got from Sis Ganj Gurdwara Delhi... You tell me...am I Sikh or am I not?
Lord Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I drink, I smoke, I eat meat, I have a crew cut...but I also have a kara on my hand that has been there since 1982....that I got from Sis Ganj Gurdwara Delhi... You tell me...am I Sikh or am I not? these things(drinking,smokin etc.) don't matter to me. if u follow the basic n broad teachings of Sikhism,u r a perfect Sikh:two_thumbs_up::icflove:
cochise Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 these things(drinking' date='smokin etc.) don't matter to me. if u follow the basic n broad teachings of Sikhism,u r a perfect Sikh:two_thumbs_up::icflove:[/quote'] I am a Sikh. A shishya. Far from perfect.
Punisher Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 I apologize if anyone was hurt by my words.. I have a lot of Punjabi friends and they are some of my best friends .. I am not against any community or any region just to clarify .. I was just saying that protesting violently when you do not know against whom you are protesting does not make sense.. and an incident in Austria should not even have a single protest here ... if needed they should have peacefully protested in Vienna and that would have made more sense ... if you are destroying and burning your own country for something that happened in a different country thousands of miles away then how does it make any sense.. India was plagued by a violent protest involving a dera sacha sauda only a year ago and to see such an incident again is not pleasant.. and there is no reason this time for the protests and so it is really worrying Yesterday some of the Sikhs made non-violent protests infront of the Austrian Embassy requesting that the Vienna case should be soon solved and culprits caught.. that makes a lot of sense in the Delhite Sikhs because at first they protested against Austrian Embassy as the incident occured in Austria and secondly they were making non-violent protests.. I would not mind such a protest infront of a definite Embassy etc. where you are protesting against in a non-violent way .. but it does not make sense to just burn down trains, factories, cars etc. when nothing happened in India I also understand that all Sikhs are not doing it.. but there must be a significant number of people because only a dozen or so people can be easily overpowered .. I saw several thousands of people marching in the streets and burning, destroying etc. in the news .. and that too in several places around Punjab and Haryana, not only in one.. even girls and women are joining the protests which is really terrible to see.. I dont know much about these "Dera" things but these people are nowadays becoming very violent which is not good to see at all ... I respect Guru Nanak Ji and he always spoke about peace and non-violence .. so are these people properly following his sayings I simply wanted to say that most Punjabis react from their heart instead of using their mind and I can say that from my personal experience.. every reaction has to be logical with a mixture of both heart and mind I do not want to offend anybody and I would like to apologize if I have hurt anybody .. the situation is improving and hope that such incident never occurs again .. Jai Hind, Jai Ho, Waheguru Ji Ka Khalsa Waheguru Ji Ki Fateh :icflove: Apology accepted and well written this time. You say because it happened in Austria why are there protests in India? I think its the same why are Sri Lankans protesting in London when Tamil Tigers are fighting in Sri Lanka?
cochise Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 You say because it happened in Austria why are there protests in India? I think its the same why are Sri Lankans protesting in London when Tamil Tigers are fighting in Sri Lanka? You are Indian, are you not? Indians are a spiritual people...such happenings disturb deeply. While I might be at the opposite end of the table from the Ravidasias who have suffered...I very well also sympathise with them. The actions of the Sikhs who killed their leader is to be condemned. Not only has it caused suffering and strife....it is also against the Sikh ethos. Sikhs do not oppress...they lift oppression. But fools exist in every people...would you crucify us? Now....you mentioned another confilct. The Tigers. In my understanding, they may have begun well...but they soon morphed into a fascist cult of personality, of which a WHOLE GENERATION OF TAMIL YOUTH IN Sri Lanka have perished. I am overjoyed. You might hate me for this....but the extinction of the Tigers really ensures the survival of the Tamils in Sri Lanka. The Tigers were a death cult. If you are fearless, you do not carry a cyanide capsule with you. That is just SUICIDAL...and belies the psychology they have been enforcing on their people for the last three decades. Suicide...is the giving up...the pits...the lowest a human can go...it is EXACTLY defeat. Can you imagine? They made two generations of Tamil youth bite this bitter pill. The Khmer Rouge of Lanka.
Guest Gunner Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 This whole fracas is a result not of high caste-low caste crap...as usual it had been misrepresented by the western media (any opportunity for putdown psyops on India) and idiotic follow the leader desi media. This is actually about the canon of Sikh faith. The only reason the Ravidasia's were attacked was because, some Sikhs abroad perceived it as disrespectful to the Guru Granth Sahib. Now, while I condemn their actions completely, I do understand their provocation. You see, Sikhs take a pride in their heritage. You all may see it as you will, but we see as we will. Please do not usurp what our ancestors died for and bend it to what you wish for. If you must, go ahead...but do not call yourself Sikh if the first thing you want to do is change what it is to be Sikh. Sikh history and spirituality is the soul of the the Sikh people. We know and understand that the same spirituality takes different forms and is the same for all people. But we know what we are and we do not like people hijacking our religion for their own means and ideology. Hence, the violent reaction...which is to be condemned. Why are we such hot-headed fools? Thank you for your wonderful post. I can't say that I have many sikh friends therefore it was very nice to hear from someone in the sikh community. Your words shed a lot of light on this issue.
cochise Posted May 27, 2009 Posted May 27, 2009 Bhagat Ravidas was a bhakti.....from time immemorial...his hymns were included in the Guru Granth Sahib...Bhagat Bani...Guru Arjan Dev included them...he saw that that the realisation of the universal....was universal...so all the castes came together....all of humanity is one....this is the langar... Guru Arjan Dev was burnt on a hot plate until he died by the mughals...tera baana meetha lage, he sang. As recorded by muslims. Guru Tegh Bahadur gave his head for the Kasmiri pandits. Guru Gobind Singh gave his life and all of his family for the freedom of all. And ever since, the Khalsa has not let India down. In one regiment, we have more VC or VC equivalents (IOM) than the whole Autralian Army in their entire history. Is this not enough? More? What more does anyone want? We will give more. We are sacrifice.
ViruRulez Posted May 27, 2009 Author Posted May 27, 2009 This whole fracas is a result not of high caste-low caste crap...as usual it had been misrepresented by the western media (any opportunity for putdown psyops on India) and idiotic follow the leader desi media. This is actually about the canon of Sikh faith. The only reason the Ravidasia's were attacked was because, some Sikhs abroad perceived it as disrespectful to the Guru Granth Sahib. Now, while I condemn their actions completely, I do understand their provocation. You see, Sikhs take a pride in their heritage. You all may see it as you will, but we see as we will. Please do not usurp what our ancestors died for and bend it to what you wish for. If you must, go ahead...but do not call yourself Sikh if the first thing you want to do is change what it is to be Sikh. Sikh history and spirituality is the soul of the the Sikh people. We know and understand that the same spirituality takes different forms and is the same for all people. But we know what we are and we do not like people hijacking our religion for their own means and ideology. Hence, the violent reaction...which is to be condemned. Why are we such hot-headed fools? Well....what to say bro? There are innumerable "deras" in Punjab...why?...Sikhs have become lazy and corrupted and forgotten the Guru's message. All humanity is one. If you cannot see God in all, you cannot see God at all. So the "deras" and their godmen come up and project themselves as "Gurus" and use the Guru Granth Sahib to legitimise themselves and then raise themselves above it and set up their own cults. This is not new. It has been happenong for centuries. If you study history, it happened during Guru Tegh Bahadur's time as well. The Ninth guru was nominated as "Baba Bakale"....the bab from bakale....like mushrooms the baba's sprouted...but only one gave his head to save thousands of Kashmiri pandit heads. So, Sikhs have a particular dislike for those who wish to pretend they are Gurus. Maybe they are....it's fine...but please, do not say you are Sikh if you are not. Though it may appear contrary, we have discipline... I drink, I smoke, I eat meat, I have a crew cut...but I also have a kara on my hand that has been there since 1982....that I got from Sis Ganj Gurdwara Delhi... You tell me...am I Sikh or am I not? I am a Sikh. A shishya. Far from perfect. You are Indian, are you not? Indians are a spiritual people...such happenings disturb deeply. While I might be at the opposite end of the table from the Ravidasias who have suffered...I very well also sympathise with them. The actions of the Sikhs who killed their leader is to be condemned. Not only has it caused suffering and strife....it is also against the Sikh ethos. Sikhs do not oppress...they lift oppression. But fools exist in every people...would you crucify us? Now....you mentioned another confilct. The Tigers. In my understanding, they may have begun well...but they soon morphed into a fascist cult of personality, of which a WHOLE GENERATION OF TAMIL YOUTH IN Sri Lanka have perished. I am overjoyed. You might hate me for this....but the extinction of the Tigers really ensures the survival of the Tamils in Sri Lanka. The Tigers were a death cult. If you are fearless, you do not carry a cyanide capsule with you. That is just SUICIDAL...and belies the psychology they have been enforcing on their people for the last three decades. Suicide...is the giving up...the pits...the lowest a human can go...it is EXACTLY defeat. Can you imagine? They made two generations of Tamil youth bite this bitter pill. The Khmer Rouge of Lanka. Bhagat Ravidas was a bhakti.....from time immemorial...his hymns were included in the Guru Granth Sahib...Bhagat Bani...Guru Arjan Dev included them...he saw that that the realisation of the universal....was universal...so all the castes came together....all of humanity is one....this is the langar... Guru Arjan Dev was burnt on a hot plate until he died by the mughals...tera baana meetha lage, he sang. As recorded by muslims. Guru Tegh Bahadur gave his head for the Kasmiri pandits. Guru Gobind Singh gave his life and all of his family for the freedom of all. And ever since, the Khalsa has not let India down. In one regiment, we have more VC or VC equivalents (IOM) than the whole Autralian Army in their entire history. Is this not enough? More? What more does anyone want? We will give more. We are sacrifice. Bhai I am sorry once again if I hurt your sentiments by any chance.. I have a great respect for the Sikh religion.. I go to gurudwaras with my punjabi friends even late at night, I eat at langars and I also drink the meethi paani wherever I get it.. whenever I pass though Chandni Chowk I also drink water from the Gurudwara and I feel a sense of spirituality .. I am a person who respects each and every religion and region from the depth of my heart .. I respect Nanakji a lot for his great principles ... and it is absolutely correct that the contribution and sacrifices made by Sikhs for India are bigger than can be expressed in mere words.. I love and respect Sikhs and Punjabis .. but Dera sacha sauda and then this incident made me feel very bad.. I am not against protests but I am against violent protests and I hope that such things never happen again in India.. and sorry again if I hurt you or any other member's feelings
ViruRulez Posted May 27, 2009 Author Posted May 27, 2009 Apology accepted and well written this time. You say because it happened in Austria why are there protests in India? I think its the same why are Sri Lankans protesting in London when Tamil Tigers are fighting in Sri Lanka? Thanks for accepting my apology bhai.. and as I told previously too I am not against protest.. I liked the way in which the protest was made in New Delhi yesterday where people made a non-violent protest infront of the Austrian Embassy .. the Lankans also protested in London but the protests were not violent until the London police started beating and dispersing them.. and they did not burn or destroy anything but in the incident in Punjab, the protestors burnt down train, cars, factory and broke buses.... police were simply standing and did not do anything as shown in TV but the protestors kept on destroying things.. it was only after curfew was imposed that situation gradually came under control.. as I always say I am not against protest but I am against violent protests .. and sorry once again and hope any such incident never happens in India again :icflove:
Guest Gunner Posted May 28, 2009 Posted May 28, 2009 Bhagat Ravidas was a bhakti.....from time immemorial...his hymns were included in the Guru Granth Sahib...Bhagat Bani...Guru Arjan Dev included them...he saw that that the realisation of the universal....was universal...so all the castes came together....all of humanity is one....this is the langar... Guru Arjan Dev was burnt on a hot plate until he died by the mughals...tera baana meetha lage, he sang. As recorded by muslims. Guru Tegh Bahadur gave his head for the Kasmiri pandits. Guru Gobind Singh gave his life and all of his family for the freedom of all. And ever since, the Khalsa has not let India down. In one regiment, we have more VC or VC equivalents (IOM) than the whole Autralian Army in their entire history. Is this not enough? More? What more does anyone want? We will give more. We are sacrifice. Cochise, I don't think there are many Indians who doubt the sacrifices of the Sikh community or their bravery. Most people clearly acknowledge that it is the Sikh community which contributes overwhelmingly to the Indian army. However, you must also realize that there is insufficient knowledge in the public domain about the Sikh community due to its closed nature and its clan oriented decision making process. I can give you an example of a Sikh girl (based in the UK) whom i found very interesting, but I was never able to break through to her even at the level of having a long conversation. That is just the way it is. This closed nature could be the reason for many wrong notions which perhaps people might carry about the community. PS: You should also mention Company C, Kumaon regiment and the bravery of its CO.
Bumblebee Posted May 28, 2009 Posted May 28, 2009 well i live in vienna...and we never supported the gurudwara in which the whole incident took place as it supports dera's and stuff ..these dera's are just trying to break the unity between sikhs by developing these caste issues ( Congress behind all this **** because of the vote bank issue) i have been going to other gurudwara's for a long time now and havnt ever heard about the castes and stuff. Still i dont support any kind of violence and what happened is unfortunate. Vienna is a very peaceful city nuthing of this sort of has happened before and that is one of the reason this incident is getting so much attention here now everyone here knows who's a Singh ....and are showing all kinds of documentries on sikh religon on T.V (Good and bad) mostly good actually because they dont want to put and bad impression on the minds of austrian people.
Gambit Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Destruction to public property and disruption to public services is a hit formula for any party/group in India looking to make a statement or expressing disapproval. It's sad and pathetic to see that 'mobs' are never arrested nor punished. Instead, they are pleaded with and their 'grievances' swiftly taken care of.
suraj Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Destruction to public property and disruption to public services is a hit formula for any party/group in India looking to make a statement or expressing disapproval. It's sad and pathetic to see that 'mobs' are never arrested nor punished. Instead' date=' they are pleaded with and their 'grievances' swiftly taken care of.[/quote'] why did you delete my post??
Gambit Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 why did you delete my post?? Because you made flippant remarks about a community.
suraj Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Because you made flippant remarks about a community. so you are playing god?? you have made enuff comments about another community, mine were much more analytical proves that therere some without power who can view things nuetral vs. others who boast their powers and really have no principles BTW I am much closer to understanding Sikhism than you ever will be but enjoy your ride
Gambit Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 so you are playing god?? you have made enuff comments about another community, mine were much more analytical Analytical? By giving expert advice like to get laid more often? Ok. :hysterical: proves that therere some without power who can view things nuetral vs. others who boast their powers and really have no principles Please translate. BTW I am much closer to understanding Sikhism than you ever will be but enjoy your ride Good for you.
suraj Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Analytical? By giving expert advice like to get laid more often? Ok. :hysterical: Yeah that has led to deletion forever on this forum, right?? whether it relates to Muslims, southies, northies..... think about it- are you insulting mine or your intelligence by correlating that with a reason for deletion?? If someone cannot understand that the comment was directed more towards loosening up then should they really have mod power- I wonder!! I can bet that your response would have been different if I had said the same thing about Muslims- you would have probably seconded that instead of deleting in that case!! Please translate. Simple translation is that I can criticize without differentiating from one community to next including mine but obviously your response is different based on what community was being made fun of and you used your "online" powers unfairly I think an apology is due considering the freedom philosphy that this forum has exhibited Good for you. Thanks
Gambit Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 Yeah that has led to deletion forever on this forum, right?? whether it relates to Muslims, southies, northies..... think about it- are you insulting mine or your intelligence by correlating that with a reason for deletion?? If someone cannot understand that the comment was directed more towards loosening up then should they really have mod power- I wonder!! I edit/delete any intended disparaging remarks against a religion or community I come across. I can bet that your response would have been different if I had said the same thing about Muslims- you would have probably seconded that instead of deleting in that case!! Neither could you have been more wrong nor have you been around long enough to know enough about me. Simple translation is that I can criticize without differentiating from one community to next including mine but obviously your response is different based on what community was being made fun of and you used your "online" powers unfairly I don't think I was being unfair or biased. In fact, to humour you, I'll share your remarks with ICF staff and ask them what they think. Fair? I think an apology is due considering the freedom philosphy that this forum has exhibited I apologise for causing you great grief and sadness by deleting those flippant remarks of yours.
suraj Posted May 29, 2009 Posted May 29, 2009 I edit/delete any intended disparaging remarks against a religion or community I come across. Neither could you have been more wrong nor have you been around long enough to know enough about me. I don't think I was being unfair or biased. In fact, to humour you, I'll share your remarks with ICF staff and ask them what they think. Fair? I apologise for causing you great grief and sadness by deleting those flippant remarks of yours. Just because I don't constantly post in an attempt to become a "legend" on ICF does not mean I have not had a fair idea of the history here in general and the history of your posts in specific!! Other than that I think your responses in the last post are very fair and reasonable; no complaints and thanks for responding with patience
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