Dhoni's performance

[Dhondy]

The same fuzzy thinking that cost him a win in the 3rd Test v NZ. If you are playing Pathan as an extra batsman in place of a bona fide bowler, what is the need for circumspection up the order? India haven't remotely come close to being bowled out in this tournament, so I can only interpret this as another manifestation of the Indian captain's morbid fear of losing that was on show at Wellington.

[gs]

Its also mental fatigue from non stop cricket and IPL. One can take only so much. Cricketers need to prioritize or else they get burned out or miss crucial matches. One can only speculate what would have happened if we had a fully fit Sehwag and Zak.

[ludhianvi]

Dhoni's strategy of late reminds me of the West Indies tour where he would try to rebuild the innings but instead of looking around for a single here and there, he would just keep on playing the defensive shot back to the bowler. In my opinion, he should be looking to rotate the strike and play more meaningful shots. A 20 off 12 balls is better than a 9 off 22 balls. Seems like the think tank or Dhoni himself has designated himself to be the anchor of the batting order. That itself is putting immense pressure on Dhoni. He should just play attacking cricket - not meaning hitting every delivery for a six but aggressive in taking singles and rotating the strike. Oh I should remind myself that he is also the wicketkeeper Mind it

[graphic23]

Dhoni's strategy of late reminds me of the West Indies tour where he would try to rebuild the innings but instead of looking around for a single here and there, he would just keep on playing the defensive shot back to the bowler. In my opinion, he should be looking to rotate the strike and play more meaningful shots. A 20 off 12 balls is better than a 9 off 22 balls. Seems like the think tank or Dhoni himself has designated himself to be the anchor of the batting order. That itself is putting immense pressure on Dhoni. He should just play attacking cricket - not meaning hitting every delivery for a six but aggressive in taking singles and rotating the strike. Oh I should remind myself that he is also the wicketkeeper Mind it

Furthermore, as he has clarified, the plan was that even if he got a 10 off 17-18 deliveries until the 13th over, the plan was that he'd stay for the slog where he can hit and make up for the lost deliveries. Now that plan may be bad and may not have worked, but the reactions have been completely and utterly OTT.

[The Outsider]

Furthermore' date=' as he has clarified, the plan was that even if he got a 10 off 17-18 deliveries until the 13th over, the plan was that he'd stay for the slog where he can hit and make up for the lost deliveries. Now that plan may be bad and may not have worked, but the reactions have been completely and utterly OTT.[/quote'] If that was the plan then the plan is utter garbage. T20 is not a game to potter around at 2 RPO for 4 overs. Dhoni has faced almost 10 overs during this WC and has hit 1 four and 1 six - that's a rubbish performance no matter what spin Dhoni or you try to put on it and should be called out as such. Dhoni makes absolutely no attempt to put the bad deliveries away for boundaries during the "consolidation" period. Yuvraj was alos consolidating during the time but was putting the poor deliveries away for fours. I find it hard to believe that in 10 overs from the likes of BD, Ireland, and WI he got to face 2 poor deliveries! In his last 9 T20s, Dhoni has faced 152 deliveries, has a SR of 77 and has struck 2 sixes and 4 fours - that is pi$$ poor even by ODI standards forget about T20s. He should not be batting anywhere above number 8, preferably at 9 behind Harbhajan.

[King Tendulkar]

If that was the plan then the plan is utter garbage. T20 is not a game to potter around at 2 RPO for 4 overs. Dhoni has faced almost 10 overs during this WC and has hit 1 four and 1 six - that's a rubbish performance no matter what spin Dhoni or you try to put on it and should be called out as such. Dhoni makes absolutely no attempt to put the bad deliveries away for boundaries during the "consolidation" period. Yuvraj was alos consolidating during the time but was putting the poor deliveries away for fours. I find it hard to believe that in 10 overs from the likes of BD, Ireland, and WI he got to face 2 poor deliveries! In his last 9 T20s, Dhoni has faced 152 deliveries, has a SR of 77 and has struck 2 sixes and 4 fours - that is pi$$ poor even by ODI standards forget about T20s. He should not be batting anywhere above number 8, preferably at 9 behind Harbhajan.

Wow dhonis stats are shockingly awful in 20/20s/ Seriously no one has answered my question. Does he still have a litre of buffalo milk daily?

[Lord]

Wow dhonis stats are shockingly awful in 20/20s/ Seriously no one has answered my question. Does he still have a litre of buffalo milk daily?

looks like his dhoodhwala is a paki.he is mixing water in his milk:giggle:

[graphic23]

If that was the plan then the plan is utter garbage. T20 is not a game to potter around at 2 RPO for 4 overs.

Ok.

Dhoni has faced almost 10 overs during this WC and has hit 1 four and 1 six - that's a rubbish performance no matter what spin Dhoni or you try to put on it and should be called out as such.

I don't need to put a spin on it because I couldn't care less whether you approve of what he's doing or not. I stated what he said in the press conference because that was enough to convince me that there was thought put into why he could be at a 50% by the 11th or 12th over, and he'd still have a lot of time to make it up. Maybe you're smarter than me that you see that as "trash", but really, I don't care what your opinion on that is.

Dhoni makes absolutely no attempt to put the bad deliveries away for boundaries during the "consolidation" period. Yuvraj was alos consolidating during the time but was putting the poor deliveries away for fours. I find it hard to believe that in 10 overs from the likes of BD, Ireland, and WI he got to face 2 poor deliveries!

Hmm, I didn't know Bangladesh had so many awesome bowlers that a batsman like Sachin needed more than 220 balls to complete a century when the likes of Dinesh Karthik were doing it in 150 balls or so. I don't know but I'd say that at that point of time Sachin wasn't in really good form. Perhaps you haven't been watching the cricket for the past couple of months, but he hasn't been in great form, and is generally struggling to find timing and power behind his shots. That you expect him to do something extraordinary when he hasn't done anything in the last 20 T20 matches he's played shows that you are expecting too much from him.

In his last 9 T20s, Dhoni has faced 152 deliveries, has a SR of 77 and has struck 2 sixes and 4 fours - that is pi$$ poor even by ODI standards forget about T20s. He should not be batting anywhere above number 8, preferably at 9 behind Harbhajan.

Thanks for letting me know. I will look at the T20Is that he's played exclusively (because I don't know if you counted the IPL matches or not), after the world cup 2007, his scores are as follows; 9* (at Mumbai, against Australia - pulled Brett Lee for a six to finish chasing 166) ------ 9 (27) (at Melbourne, when the world champions were batting like rubbish and were all out for 76) ------ 13 (17) (against Sri Lanka, he came in at 81-3. Until the fourth wicket fell, he had 8 off 5 deliveries with a four, 4 singles, and no dot ball. After that, Raina fell, and Rohit came to the crease, who was unable to even get the singles going at the other end. He obviously couldn't attack because the guy at the other end can't make a run if his life depended on it. If he fell, barring a miracle performance from Irfan and Yusuf, we wouldn't have won- as it turned, they did put up a super partnership, and we won. -He's been terribly circumspect when a wicket fell so that the batting order doesn't collapse) ------ 2 (5) vs. NZ, he failed with the bat. ------ 28 (30) vs. NZ, coming at #5, because after our top three, the first T20I read for a great reading of: 7,1,2,20,12,21 with Gambhir going for a 0. Turns out we lost this game too. ------ World Cup T20 2009. While I don't defend all his slow batting with some "excuse" or other, I do see that he's been unable to time it well in the short span that he has at the crease in T20. And its been that way since the ODI series in Australia, when he transformed himself as a more reliable batsman than one who'd hit a 183* or 148 and take the game away, but at the same time, would bring less stability to the middle order because you don't know whether he'll succeed or not. TBH, I appreciate his skills for the way he's playing just as much as I enjoyed it when he hit a 183* or 148 or those quick 70s, 80s against WI and SL. So I'm not as surprised by these efforts as you and the other guys are. I don't know what he can do other than get into form. Because as I see it, you hate him whether he comes at #3 or at #5. When he was coming at #3 against Minnows, you bashed him and asked him to come at #5, and now its at #9. What guarantees that you won't ask for him to go and play in his Ranchi backyard, where he belongs, hmm?

[The Outsider]

I don't need to put a spin on it because I couldn't care less whether you approve of what he's doing or not. I stated what he said in the press conference because that was enough to convince me that there was thought put into why he could be at a 50% by the 11th or 12th over, and he'd still have a lot of time to make it up. Maybe you're smarter than me that you see that as "trash", but really, I don't care what your opinion on that is.

I don't know why you are replying to my posts if you don't care what my opinion is, but please continue singing glorious praises for 11(23) and while you are at it also do it for 9(27) because you are convinced about what Dhoni said in the press conference. These kind of innings are completely trashy according to me and I will continue to call them trashy. While other batsmen in the team have also had their share of failures they have succeeded as well. Dhoni has been sucking in T20s for a long time and with no successful innings to boast of in his last 9 T20s and will obviously get the flak, specially because he is the captain and comes in at times that go against all logic and starts to potter around.

Hmm, I didn't know Bangladesh had so many awesome bowlers that a batsman like Sachin needed more than 220 balls to complete a century when the likes of Dinesh Karthik were doing it in 150 balls or so. I don't know but I'd say that at that point of time Sachin wasn't in really good form.

I really bow to your genius - taking SRs from a test match to draw some kind of an analogy for 2.5 run rates in T20s. Once again take a bow.:hatsoff:

Perhaps you haven't been watching the cricket for the past couple of months, but he hasn't been in great form, and is generally struggling to find timing and power behind his shots. That you expect him to do something extraordinary when he hasn't done anything in the last 20 T20 matches he's played shows that you are expecting too much from him.

I have watched a lot of cricket during the past couple of months and know that he is out of form. An out of form batsman is not supposed to come in at crucial times in T20s to kill the momentum by killing the scoring and patting back even poor deliveries.

Thanks for letting me know. I will look at the T20Is that he's played exclusively (because I don't know if you counted the IPL matches or not), after the world cup 2007, his scores are as follows; 9* (at Mumbai, against Australia - pulled Brett Lee for a six to finish chasing 166) ------ 9 (27) (at Melbourne, when the world champions were batting like rubbish and were all out for 76) ------ 13 (17) (against Sri Lanka, he came in at 81-3. Until the fourth wicket fell, he had 8 off 5 deliveries with a four, 4 singles, and no dot ball. After that, Raina fell, and Rohit came to the crease, who was unable to even get the singles going at the other end. He obviously couldn't attack because the guy at the other end can't make a run if his life depended on it. If he fell, barring a miracle performance from Irfan and Yusuf, we wouldn't have won- as it turned, they did put up a super partnership, and we won. -He's been terribly circumspect when a wicket fell so that the batting order doesn't collapse) ------ 2 (5) vs. NZ, he failed with the bat. ------ 28 (30) vs. NZ, coming at #5, because after our top three, the first T20I read for a great reading of: 7,1,2,20,12,21 with Gambhir going for a 0. Turns out we lost this game too. ------ World Cup T20 2009. While I don't defend all his slow batting with some "excuse" or other, I do see that he's been unable to time it well in the short span that he has at the crease in T20. And its been that way since the ODI series in Australia, when he transformed himself as a more reliable batsman than one who'd hit a 183* or 148 and take the game away, but at the same time, would bring less stability to the middle order because you don't know whether he'll succeed or not. TBH, I appreciate his skills for the way he's playing just as much as I enjoyed it when he hit a 183* or 148 or those quick 70s, 80s against WI and SL.

Lol! At one point you are saying you are not looking for "excuses" and then blaming all and sundry except Dhoni for his poor performances like Sharma having an off game. If we apply that logic everyone can be excused of failure because they can always cite Dhoni's poor form - which has been the one consistent thing about the T20 team recently. I know about the transformation in ODIs etc. and appreciate the role he plays in the middle overs and have said he has been responsible for many an Indian win. But yeah, trust you to bring ODIs into a T20 discussion when you were citing test match SRs to draw some analogy.

So I'm not as surprised by these efforts as you and the other guys are. I don't know what he can do other than get into form. Because as I see it, you hate him whether he comes at #3 or at #5. When he was coming at #3 against Minnows, you bashed him and asked him to come at #5, and now its at #9. What guarantees that you won't ask for him to go and play in his Ranchi backyard, where he belongs, hmm?

And what's wrong with him going to his Ranchi backyard if he can't cut it and continues to fail - not that I am saying he is anywhere close to it. He is still by far the best keeper in the country and does many more good things as captain than bad. So his position in the team is really not of much concern. It's his batting position and his batting which has been shocking. A SR of 77 and hitting a boundary every fifth over over 9 consecutive T20s(yeah I am talking only of international T20s) is downright poor and hurts the team. If you think such performances are in any way helping the team maybe you should just start a petition to give Dhoni a life time membership in the Indian side with the added incentive of playing at any position and at any SR. He is of course without blemish.

[zubinpepsi]

^^ :cantstop:

[graphic23]

I don't know why you are replying to my posts if you don't care what my opinion is, but please continue singing glorious praises for 11(23) and while you are at it also do it for 9(27) because you are convinced about what Dhoni said in the press conference. These kind of innings are completely trashy according to me and I will continue to call them trashy. While other batsmen in the team have also had their share of failures they have succeeded as well. Dhoni has been sucking in T20s for a long time and with no successful innings to boast of in his last 9 T20s and will obviously get the flak, specially because he is the captain and comes in at times that go against all logic and starts to potter around.

I never sang praises. I am just as disappointed in his batting as everyone else is. I merely said that the reaction to ask him to quit and that he's only in the team because he's a captain is the wrong thing to say at this point of time.

I really bow to your genius - taking SRs from a test match to draw some kind of an analogy for 2.5 run rates in T20s. Once again take a bow.:hatsoff:

The point to bring the S/R into question was not to compare them but to tell you that batsmen do undergo a loss of form. I accept your bowing, though. Thats always nice to get.

I have watched a lot of cricket during the past couple of months and know that he is out of form. An out of form batsman is not supposed to come in at crucial times in T20s to kill the momentum by killing the scoring and patting back even poor deliveries.

So, what is he supposed to do? You've lost 3 batsman due to rush of blood who've showed very poor judgment. The point was that he can anchor one side while Yuvraj continues to score a fast clip. It didn't work out this time. It may or may not work next time, but I can come up with equally convincing reasons as to why Yusuf Pathan shouldn't have come above Dhoni either - he could've gotten out because he's mainly a stroke player. With the form that Dhoni is in, he can play that anchor role pretty effectively but it didn't work out.

Lol! At one point you are saying you are not looking for "excuses" and then blaming all and sundry except Dhoni for his poor performances like Sharma having an off game. If we apply that logic everyone can be excused of failure because they can always cite Dhoni's poor form - which has been the one consistent thing about the T20 team recently.

You can't attribute someone's lack of form to anyone but himself, isn't it? So when I acknowledge that, I am indeed blaming Dhoni for his batting. But you can start reading between the lines and come up with the wrong conclusions all you want.

I know about the transformation in ODIs etc. and appreciate the role he plays in the middle overs and have said he has been responsible for many an Indian win. But yeah, trust you to bring ODIs into a T20 discussion when you were citing test match SRs to draw some analogy.

The point is that he's transformed himself in all LOI formats, not just ODIs, there are 6 players who can hit at will. We can do with one who can do both, or more of the hanging around job rather than hit out.

And what's wrong with him going to his Ranchi backyard if he can't cut it and continues to fail - not that I am saying he is anywhere close to it. He is still by far the best keeper in the country and does many more good things as captain than bad. So his position in the team is really not of much concern. It's his batting position and his batting which has been shocking. A SR of 77 and hitting a boundary every fifth over over 9 consecutive T20s(yeah I am talking only of international T20s) is downright poor and hurts the team. If you think such performances are in any way helping the team maybe you should just start a petition to give Dhoni a life time membership in the Indian side with the added incentive of playing at any position and at any SR. He is of course without blemish.

I didn't hear many people asking Sachin to go back to Sivaji Park when he was falling to Bracken, Lee, and Malinga early in the CB Series because we were confident that he's good enough to play better than that. I am not claiming that its benefiting the team or that its not hurting the team - its obvious enough that his performance can be much better, but I will not ask for him to go back to Ranchi - that you may be your wont but not mine.

[Guest Hiten.]

Nothing is going Dhoni's way these days and the "Midas" touch that he had..is diminishing. He would have never thought that the English bowlers would be all over India in a chase of miserly total. I just had a bad feeling about this as soon as Dhoni decided to chase in a game that is do-or-die for us. Even in the past WC we have won defending a total rather than chasing it.

[The Outsider]

I never sang praises. I am just as disappointed in his batting as everyone else is. I merely said that the reaction to ask him to quit and that he's only in the team because he's a captain is the wrong thing to say at this point of time.

I never asked him to quit or be dropped and neither did at least 90% of the posters here, so I don't understand what your point is.

The point to bring the S/R into question was not to compare them but to tell you that batsmen do undergo a loss of form. I accept your bowing, though. Thats always nice to get.

By obviously ignoring the bigger point that in test matches these kind of innings usually don't harm the team's chances but in T20s they are a disaster. Please take a bow again and feel nicer.:hatsoff:

So, what is he supposed to do? You've lost 3 batsman due to rush of blood who've showed very poor judgment. The point was that he can anchor one side while Yuvraj continues to score a fast clip. It didn't work out this time. It may or may not work next time, but I can come up with equally convincing reasons as to why Yusuf Pathan shouldn't have come above Dhoni either - he could've gotten out because he's mainly a stroke player. With the form that Dhoni is in, he can play that anchor role pretty effectively but it didn't work out.

Anchoring the innings in a T20 is not like anchoring in a test or even an ODI. You absolutely have to put the bad balls away and score at around 5-6 RPO at the very least, else all that anchoring is useless and you might as well go for glory or nothing. And FWIW, I would have sent Irfan ahead of Yusuf and Dhoni - he is good at rotating strike, can clear the field against the spinners, and has a reasonable technique.

You can't attribute someone's lack of form to anyone but himself, isn't it? So when I acknowledge that, I am indeed blaming Dhoni for his batting. But you can start reading between the lines and come up with the wrong conclusions all you want.

But you did just that- read your post above - blaming Dhoni's poor strike rate on Sharma's inability to turnover the strike.

The point is that he's transformed himself in all LOI formats, not just ODIs, there are 6 players who can hit at will. We can do with one who can do both, or more of the hanging around job rather than hit out.

The point is also that this kind of a transformation is of no practical use in a T20 where you strike 2 boundaries in 10 overs in a tournament. The team can do well without this transformation so time for him to come up with something different in T20s.

I didn't hear many people asking Sachin to go back to Sivaji Park when he was falling to Bracken, Lee, and Malinga early in the CB Series because we were confident that he's good enough to play better than that. I am not claiming that its benefiting the team or that its not hurting the team - its obvious enough that his performance can be much better, but I will not ask for him to go back to Ranchi - that you may be your wont but not mine.

I am not asking him to go back to Ranchi - please read my post again. But at the moment he offers close to nothing as a batsman in the top order in T20s, so he must drop down the order. And comparing Tendulkar with Dhoni and the rope they are entitled to is just lulz...

[graphic23]

I never asked him to quit or be dropped and neither did at least 90% of the posters here, so I don't understand what your point is.

No, quite a few people, along with your fellow admin have said that he is in the team solely because he is captain.

By obviously ignoring the bigger point that in test matches these kind of innings usually don't harm the team's chances but in T20s they are a disaster. Please take a bow again and feel nicer.:hatsoff:

Nope. We drew that test match against Bangladesh, I can't think of a more shameful thing to do, actually. And they didn't have any jaw-dropping performances like the one showed by Bravo on Friday. While I don't blame Sachin for that draw, slow batting even in test matches does matter. And I don't want to bow any more, its hurting my back.

Anchoring the innings in a T20 is not like anchoring in a test or even an ODI. You absolutely have to put the bad balls away and score at around 5-6 RPO at the very least, else all that anchoring is useless and you might as well go for glory or nothing. And FWIW, I would have sent Irfan ahead of Yusuf and Dhoni - he is good at rotating strike, can clear the field against the spinners, and has a reasonable technique.

Ok. I won't disagree with that but I still stick with my conviction. When you came in the 6th over, and played till the 11th over, if you are at 11 from 23 in the 12th over, there is still plenty of opportunity for you to make that gap up, during the slog overs or in the next couple. And in this case, it didn't work. While I will criticize him for the implementation of that plan, I won't say that he needs to be dropped. With respect to his form in the previous games, I've given an explanation. I think he's fell down from his own standards, and is not adequately performing in this format of the game. And I still believe that its a matter of form and not his ineptness.

But you did just that- read your post above - blaming Dhoni's poor strike rate on Sharma's inability to turnover the strike.

I reread my post, and I see where you're coming up with that. What I meant to say was that he's growing increasingly circumspect at the fall of a wicket. When he scored that 183*, he didn't slow down all that much even when a couple of wickets fell around him. The pressure of captaincy has got to him, and thats hindering his batting. Thats precisely why I brought up his scoring rate prior to Raina's dismissal and after it.

The point is also that this kind of a transformation is of no practical use in a T20 where you strike 2 boundaries in 10 overs in a tournament. The team can do well without this transformation so time for him to come up with something different in T20s.

Fair enough, no arguments here from me.

I am not asking him to go back to Ranchi - please read my post again. But at the moment he offers close to nothing as a batsman in the top order in T20s, so he must drop down the order.

Agreed here as well. Again, the Ranchi thing was not your reference but it was one of the several things that was suggested for what Dhoni ought to do.

And comparing Tendulkar with Dhoni and the rope they are entitled to is just lulz...

Perhaps I'm missing something here but I don't see anything funny with what I said. For what Dhoni's done to the team as a leader, it is comparable to the value Sachin adds to the team. There have been plenty of instances in the recent past when his leadership was missed. And as a batsman in the ODIs, he's invaluable. His test form has not been too shabby either.

[The Outsider]

No, quite a few people, along with your fellow admin have said that he is in the team solely because he is captain.

A fellow admin has no more weight than a regular poster in most circumstances, specially this one. And let's say there are 100 active members on the site, can you name more than 10 who have asked for Dhoni's sacking?

Nope. We drew that test match against Bangladesh, I can't think of a more shameful thing to do, actually. And they didn't have any jaw-dropping performances like the one showed by Bravo on Friday. While I don't blame Sachin for that draw, slow batting even in test matches does matter.

No...you are wrong. We won that test match - the test you are referring to as a draw was not because of Tendulkar's batting but because of rain and Karthik did no score a century in that match. Non sequitur.

And I don't want to bow any more, its hurting my back.

But please do try once again for quoting the wrong match in an irrelevant context.:hatsoff:

Ok. I won't disagree with that but I still stick with my conviction. When you came in the 6th over, and played till the 11th over, if you are at 11 from 23 in the 12th over, there is still plenty of opportunity for you to make that gap up, during the slog overs or in the next couple. And in this case, it didn't work. While I will criticize him for the implementation of that plan, I won't say that he needs to be dropped. With respect to his form in the previous games, I've given an explanation. I think he's fell down from his own standards, and is not adequately performing in this format of the game. And I still believe that its a matter of form and not his ineptness.

Once again, I don't know where you are getting this whole "dropped" idea from - I don't want him to be dropped and neither do the vast majority of the posters here. And FWIW, I think his innings and position today was pretty good. He did the best he could at a spot he is capable of.

I reread my post, and I see where you're coming up with that. What I meant to say was that he's growing increasingly circumspect at the fall of a wicket. When he scored that 183*, he didn't slow down all that much even when a couple of wickets fell around him. The pressure of captaincy has got to him, and thats hindering his batting. Thats precisely why I brought up his scoring rate prior to Raina's dismissal and after it.

And he should not be growing circumspect to the extent of playing at 2.5 RPO - this is a 20 over match with 10 wickets. Even after the loss of a few early wickets a minimum run rate of 5-6 should be established to have a realistic chance of winning the match. An 11(23) is never going to win you a T20 but on the odd occasion a 54(102) or a 108(267) might win you an ODI or test match.

Perhaps I'm missing something here but I don't see anything funny with what I said. For what Dhoni's done to the team as a leader, it is comparable to the value Sachin adds to the team. There have been plenty of instances in the recent past when his leadership was missed. And as a batsman in the ODIs, he's invaluable. His test form has not been too shabby either.

I can't even being to respond to this part of your post - tried and erased a few times, but I don't think I'll manage it. Dhoni as captain is comparable to Tendulkar in the team :omg:

[graphic23]

Ok, I accept pwnage in the Bangladesh thing. That was a mistake on my part. I was a little confused there. I stick with what I've said with the rest of my post though, especially the last part. If you want to debate it, make a point. I don't want to argue with ": omg : " smileys.

[fineleg]

Dhoni is good for Tests and ODIs. And that's about it (unless he rediscovers the old MSD batting aggression)

[The Outsider]

Ok' date=' I accept pwnage in the Bangladesh thing. That was a mistake on my part. I was a little confused there. I stick with what I've said with the rest of my post though, especially the last part. If you want to debate it, make a point. I don't want to argue with ": omg : " smileys.[/quote'] I don't want to elaborate on it because it would be like telling fineleg that making runs against HP should not be a criteria for selection of Sehwag and I give you many more cricketing IQ points than fineleg. Or people who were jumping up and down for Yuvraj to replace Tendulkar in tests at one point based on his T20/ODI exploits. If you seriously believe Dhoni's contribution to Indian cricket as of today can be mentioned in the same breath as Tendulkar's start a thread and I will contribute if I can find some valid points.

[fineleg]

^ Oye, needlessly you are bringing me into this discussion in the pretext of giving an example. Just shut up with your IQ boasting (or belittling mine), Mr. Bloated Ego Prof. :finger: You have no idea about my credentials, and you dont need to have either. All you need to do is zip it when no one is accusing you of something here. (In other words, like you'd say, stop being a troll shwetabh. You have a discussion abt Dhoni with graphic, stick to that, and I realize you said "cricketing" intelligence, still no need to needlessly provoke)

[graphic23]

I don't want to elaborate on it because it would be like telling fineleg that making runs against HP should not be a criteria for selection of Sehwag and I give you many more cricketing IQ points than fineleg. Or people who were jumping up and down for Yuvraj to replace Tendulkar in tests at one point based on his T20/ODI exploits. If you seriously believe Dhoni's contribution to Indian cricket as of today can be mentioned in the same breath as Tendulkar's start a thread and I will contribute if I can find some valid points.

No no no. Then you've completely misunderstood me. I've said that in the 2 years he has been captaining India, his contributions to the team have been comparable to the value that Sachin has added to the team in the same period.