Top Indian CEO: Most American Grads Are ‘Unemployable’

[Sachinism]

OK, before you get your knickers in a twist, let's put the CEO's comments into context. Vineet Nayar, the highly respected CEO of HCL Technologies, one of India's hottest IT services vendors, was speaking this morning in New York City to an audience of about 50 customers and partners when he related a recent experience with an education official in a large U.S. state. The official wanted to know why HCL, a $2.5 billion (revenue) company with more than 3,000 people across 21 offices in 15 states, wasn't hiring more people in his state. Vineet's short answer: because most American college grads are "unemployable." (In fairness to HCL, the company recently announced plans to open a delivery center in another state, North Carolina, and invest $3.2 million and hire more than 500 employees there over the next five years under a Job Development Investment Grant.) Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like. As a result, Vineet said, most Americans are just too expensive to train--despite the Indian IT industry's reputation for having the most exhaustive boot camps in the world. To some extent, he said, students from other highly developed countries fall into the same rut. In an interview following his presentation, Vineet said HCL and other employers need to have a greater influence on the tech curricula of U.S. colleges and universities, to make them more real-world and rigorous. For the most part, he said, those institutions haven't been receptive to such industry partnerships. More broadly, Vineet echoed the concerns expressed by other CEOs, including SAS Institute's Jim Goodnight and Cisco's John Chambers, about the failure of the U.S. education system to prepare the country's next-generation tech workforce (a subject Goodnight and others will dive into at the InformationWeek 500 Conference, Sept. 13 to 15). Beyond the need to bolster competencies in math, the hard sciences, and basic problem solving, U.S. schools at all levels must place a greater emphasis on global history, foreign languages, and other subjects that prepare students for jobs and life outside this country. How many grads of U.S. colleges are ready or even willing to work abroad? Vineet asked rhetorically. "We need to define the American dream to be more global in nature," he said. The cynical among you will counter that some American students, having seen tech jobs move to lower-wage countries or go to H1-B visa holders, have lost their appetite for process-oriented IT professions. But if this country's economic future is indeed rooted in technology--whether in health care, energy, transportation, or the tech industries themselves--then the status quo won't do. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/06/top_indian_ceo.html;jsessionid=HKKNO34GCSZZOQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN

[kumble_rocks]

Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like.

Strange comments considering the fact that these tools , process have come from the West...

[yoda]

American workers are some of the smartest, process oriented, thorough professionals I have come across. I am talking about those who are already in the field and this guy is talking about new grads, but I think his generalization is wrong given that most of those I work with are exceptional.

[THX_1138]

yeah... i know i am unemployable. i only interested myself in taking every course my university has to offer at the undergraduate level in mathematics, physics and e.e. and finished with a paltry 289 credit hours... tsk tsk, who would hire an idiot like me when elloquent, well read, motivated students are dime a dozen from colleges in the bedlams of karnataka and tamil nadu.

[punjabi_khota]

yeah... i know i am unemployable. i only interested myself in taking every course my university has to offer at the undergraduate level in mathematics' date=' physics and e.e. and finished with a paltry 289 credit hours... tsk tsk, who would hire an idiot like me when elloquent, well read, motivated students are dime a dozen from colleges in the bedlams of karnataka and tamil nadu.[/quote'] :hysterical::hysterical: ...but how many are there of your kind. ?

[Ram]

BS. The Americans I have interacted with (both at school and at work) are some of the most intelligent,well-educated, hard-working professionals with an excellent work-ethic and desire to do as good a job as possible. What Mr.Nayar actually meant was, American students wont fall head over heels to do anything that it takes, to impress their bosses in the first jobs – Stuff like working late nights, working weekends, attending useless training sessions, writing pointless tests, failing which you will be fired etc. I get complaints from Indian friends, whose team members comprise of mostly Indians, that most of their Indian colleagues are busy sucking up to their manager and spoiling the work culture here too. And because of those insecure specimens, these people have had to suffer too, by doing things they would have otherwise not done (staying late even if there’s no work, working from on weekends even when there’s no apparent need etc..) In fact, this sort no-holds barred competition among Indians, especially entry level guys, is what prompted me to discard some promising work offers after UG and leave abroad.

[nikred]

BS. The Americans I have interacted with (both at school and at work) are some of the most intelligent,well-educated, hard-working professionals with an excellent work-ethic and desire to do as good a job as possible. What Mr.Nayar actually meant was, American students wont fall head over heels to do anything that it takes, to impress their bosses in the first jobs – Stuff like working late nights, working weekends, attending useless training sessions, writing pointless tests, failing which you will be fired etc. I get complaints from Indian friends, whose team members comprise of mostly Indians, that most of their Indian colleagues are busy sucking up to their manager and spoiling the work culture here too. And because of those insecure specimens, these people have had to suffer too, by doing things they would have otherwise not done (staying late even if there’s no work, working from on weekends even when there’s no apparent need etc..) In fact, this sort no-holds barred competition among Indians, especially entry level guys, is what prompted me to discard some promising work offers after UG and leave abroad.

QFT

[punjabi_khota]

From what I have seen so far, I think what Americans undergrads lack in Math skills/ background, they make it up with the creativity and ingenuity. Speaking as an academic/ engineer(the non-IT kind..:hahaha:) of course.

[THX_1138]

:hysterical::hysterical: ...but how many are there of your kind. ?

almost everyone who graduated with me with a b.s. in physics had a b.s. in mathematics, and my best friend was a double degree in math and electrical engineering. and one guy i know had a b.s. in math, b.s. in physics and he had a prior degree in economics. if memory serves me right, he took our universities' organic chemistry sequence and the inorganic chemistry sequence. i believe another one semester and two labs he might have had a degree in chemistry too. i will get a double masters december after next in math and physics. my advisor is a ph.d. in physics and a practicing patent attorney, my s.o. is a double degree in psychology and political science and she finished her jurist doctorate last year.

[punjabi_khota]

almost everyone who graduated with me with a b.s. in physics had a b.s. in mathematics' date= and my best friend was a double degree in math and electrical engineering.

I doubt it. But anyways, B.S. in Physics and Math looks great for your graduate school application (I would have done it if they had a similar program in IIT), but in terms of real world skills (as in industry readiness, which the article is talking about), I am afraid it counts for precious little. In most cases, you would need a graduate degree after a bachelors in math or physics to go anywhere.

[THX_1138]

From what I have seen so far' date=' I think what Americans undergrads lack in Math skills/ background, they make it up with the creativity and ingenuity. Speaking as an academic/ engineer(the non-IT kind..:hahaha:) of course.[/quote'] if i am correct you graduated from IIT, if so, i think it is unfair on your part to compare your mathematics skills with the average american student. if you must compete, rub shoulders with the folks at MIT or University of Chicago and that ought to put into perspective the mathematics skills of americans. on an average, americans are marginally better than indians, however, when comparing the very best in their respective fields, americans are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world. its the poor public school system, especially in inner city schools that has roped them back so much.

[THX_1138]

I doubt it. But anyways, B.S. in Physics and Math looks great for your graduate school application (I would have done it if they had a similar program in IIT), but in terms of real world skills (as in industry readiness, which the article is talking about), I am afraid it counts for precious little. In most cases, you would need a graduate degree after a bachelors in math or physics to go anywhere.

we had a total of 24 undergrads in physics and 82 in mathematics. i know everyone who graduate with me or a semester ahead of after me.

[punjabi_khota]

if i am correct you graduated from IIT' date=' if so, i think it is unfair on your part to compare your mathematics skills with the average american student. if you must compete, rub shoulders with the folks at MIT or University of Chicago and that ought to put into perspective the mathematics skills of americans. [/quote'] I have been rubbing shoulders with graduate students from most of top colleges in US (we collaborate with people at Caltech where my advisor is from and UT Austin and I have had numerous discussions with people from MIT and Stanford in various conferences). Also, several of my former IIT-mates are studying those elite colleges and have experience similar to mine. But again, I am talking about purely mathematical skills. I would rate American students higher on creativity.

on an average, americans are marginally better than indians, however, when comparing the very best in their respective fields, americans are leaps and bounds ahead of the rest of the world. its the poor public school system, especially in inner city schools that has roped them back so much.

I disagree. Just to say where I am coming from, I feel the best guy at say IIT is as good or better than the best guy at MIT. Those crazy Iranians from Sharif University or those bastards from French Ecole Polytechnique are also as good as any. All of above opinions only applies to engineering btw, as thats my field.

[gs]

Nayar is completely over the top here. There might be a shortage of local tech grads in the US, but they are not unemployable. Also, if they dont fit his sweatshop budget, it doesnt mean they arent good enough either.

[THX_1138]

I have been rubbing shoulders with graduate students from most of top colleges in US (we collaborate with people at Caltech where my advisor is from and UT Austin and I have had numerous discussions with people from MIT and Stanford in various conferences). Also, several of my former IIT-mates are studying those elite colleges and have experience similar to mine. But again, I am talking about purely mathematical skills. I would rate American students higher on creativity. I disagree. Just to say where I am coming from, I feel the best guy at say IIT is as good or better than the best guy at MIT. Those crazy Iranians from Sharif University or those bastards from French Ecole Polytechnique are also as good as any. All of above opinions only applies to engineering btw, as thats my field.

well there is hardly any empirical data to prove which one of us is correct. but since i dont care for your opinion (insert diabolical laughter) i conclude that i am correct. oh snap.

[punjabi_khota]

well there is hardly any empirical data to prove which one of us is correct. but since i dont care for your opinion (insert diabolical laughter) i conclude that i am correct. oh snap.

A B.S. in math and such poor 'proving" skills...where is Rudin when you need him. :((:((

[Lurker]

Good to hear the jackass comment did not find much support. What essentially Nayar saab is not saying is that he has the choice of picking Indians from top colleges for a pittance(a super healthy 10 lakhs per annum in India still counts for less than 25 K in USA). And so while the best of what India has to offer will join HCL, if HCL decided to go to top US colleges they would find absolutely noone willing to join. This has traditionally been the way Indian companies have made money, both at home and abroad.

[seedhi]

I doubt it. But anyways' date=' B.S. in Physics and Math looks great for your graduate school application ([b']I would have done it if they had a similar program in IIT), but in terms of real world skills (as in industry readiness, which the article is talking about), I am afraid it counts for precious little. In most cases, you would need a graduate degree after a bachelors in math or physics to go anywhere.

If I am not wrong, one can do a minor along with your undergrad in IITs, atleast in Delhi there was something of this sort.

[The Outsider]

Yeah they are, specially if you cannot afford to pay them or treat them with dignity.

[triam]

OK, before you get your knickers in a twist, let's put the CEO's comments into context. Vineet Nayar, the highly respected CEO of HCL Technologies, one of India's hottest IT services vendors, was speaking this morning in New York City to an audience of about 50 customers and partners when he related a recent experience with an education official in a large U.S. state. The official wanted to know why HCL, a $2.5 billion (revenue) company with more than 3,000 people across 21 offices in 15 states, wasn't hiring more people in his state. Vineet's short answer: because most American college grads are "unemployable." (In fairness to HCL, the company recently announced plans to open a delivery center in another state, North Carolina, and invest $3.2 million and hire more than 500 employees there over the next five years under a Job Development Investment Grant.) Many American grads looking to enter the tech field are preoccupied with getting rich, Vineet said. They're far less inclined than students from developing countries like India, China, Brazil, South Africa, and Ireland to spend their time learning the "boring" details of tech process, methodology, and tools--ITIL, Six Sigma, and the like. As a result, Vineet said, most Americans are just too expensive to train--despite the Indian IT industry's reputation for having the most exhaustive boot camps in the world. To some extent, he said, students from other highly developed countries fall into the same rut. In an interview following his presentation, Vineet said HCL and other employers need to have a greater influence on the tech curricula of U.S. colleges and universities, to make them more real-world and rigorous. For the most part, he said, those institutions haven't been receptive to such industry partnerships. More broadly, Vineet echoed the concerns expressed by other CEOs, including SAS Institute's Jim Goodnight and Cisco's John Chambers, about the failure of the U.S. education system to prepare the country's next-generation tech workforce (a subject Goodnight and others will dive into at the InformationWeek 500 Conference, Sept. 13 to 15). Beyond the need to bolster competencies in math, the hard sciences, and basic problem solving, U.S. schools at all levels must place a greater emphasis on global history, foreign languages, and other subjects that prepare students for jobs and life outside this country. How many grads of U.S. colleges are ready or even willing to work abroad? Vineet asked rhetorically. "We need to define the American dream to be more global in nature," he said. The cynical among you will counter that some American students, having seen tech jobs move to lower-wage countries or go to H1-B visa holders, have lost their appetite for process-oriented IT professions. But if this country's economic future is indeed rooted in technology--whether in health care, energy, transportation, or the tech industries themselves--then the status quo won't do. http://www.informationweek.com/blog/main/archives/2009/06/top_indian_ceo.html;jsessionid=HKKNO34GCSZZOQSNDLPCKHSCJUNN2JVN

They definitely are boring, most of the methodologies and processes are nothing but glorified common sense, and most of the tools can be mastered pretty easily. I do not blame students who have better options than consulting pursuing them. Anyways most IT consultants indulge in nothing more than mental pro$titution. They dont care nor are they passionate about their work. The main reason being their work is not really interesting. For all the mighty talk about the Indian IT industry the number of REAL products that are indigenous to India currently stands at 1, which being Tally. So I would actually advise the Indian educational system to produce something more substantial than moist robots who mostly follow their managers edict without ever thinking outside the box.