When will we have an express fast bowler?

[hari504504]

Mohinder Amarnath's upper body used to be black and blue from the body blows he got from the WI bowlers ... he is still alive.

Gavaskar was another one....without a helmet even!!...all modern day batsmen are p u s s i e s compared to them..

[Malcolm Merlyn]

can you name me some batsmen who have never been hit :nervous:

Viv Richards:nervous:

[Guest BossBhai]

-- Removed on request of the user --

[The Outsider]

has been hit too ... by Rodney Hogg.

Also by Greg Chappell

[SJS50]

Just because someone is a good batsman against fast and short stuff, it is no guarantee against being hit. No player, howsoever good, has not been hit if he played genuine pace bowling over a long enough time. The issue is not that Yuvi and company get hit by short fast stuff but that their technique is faulty. You cant plonk your foot in front irrespective of the length of the ball every time. With medium paced stuff, if you have good hands you may be able to play them off the front foot(particularly on slow-low wickets) but quicker stuff will have you floundering. It is also a fallacy to say that just because you are from a country where wickets are not fast and bouncier you HAVE to have a poor technique against fast short stuff. SRT, Rahul and Dravid are not the only people who played such bowling well. We have had players in the past too who handled fast short stuff well. Gavaskar, Mohinder, Vishwanath, Kapil Dev are just some examples. It is faulty technique and bad coaching. The fact that the wickets are not fast bowler friendly is not responsible for your bad technique, it just makes you survive in spite of it. But bad technique can be seen when Yuvraj pulls everything off the front foot or while standing on the crease. Even when he hits that ball from the medium pacer for four or six, it is possible to ask, why did he not go back? As for the difference in Test and the T-20 format is concerned, yes there is a difference but if your technique is better it will serve you in both formats. That is why the top 20 highest scorers in ODI's are basically technically correct Test players. As players settle down with how best to bat in T-20, you will find the same happening there too. Already one can see the Test players getting more and more settled and starting to dominate. Yes T-20 has a problem. The batsmen seem to have little time to settle down but that applies whether you know how to pull or not. Of course people will get out quicker, not just pulling or hooking, but playing all kinds of strokes. Thats why the averages in T-20 will eventuallly be lower than ODI's and those for Tests will be the highest. But within that, the top players in longer version will do better in the shorter versions while the reverse, for batsmen, will rarely be true in the long run. I think Indians have another problem in T-20. There is this silly notion that IPL is a good training ground for t-20 internationals. Nothing can be further from the truth. Just have a look. India is truggling with bench strength already with a few players injured. In IPL with eight teams, you need 56 India players in the 'playing XI' as it were. Add minimum viable bench strength and we add another 25 more. Next year it will be ten teams so 70 plus 30 - a hundred Indians are needed. We cant find 20 to play in the T-20 world cup. What does it say of the standards in IPL? Of course, the T-20 world cup is a significant step upwards as far as bowling is concerned. The Indian batsmen do not have the luxury of playing the Agarkars, the Gonis. the Jaskarans, Joginder Sharmas, the Praveen Kumars as they had in the IPL. Those you may be able to pull and hook off the front foot - and on Indian wickets. Here there are at least three top class bowlers in every side. IPL gives Indian players a false sense of being in touch with the format at the highest level. The glitz, the glamour, the crowds and the money of IPL does not translate into better standards, it just appears so to the fan blinded by the lights. The players should know better. When Yousuf Pathan was smashing "the greatest innings ever seen" by Shane Warne - a devastating 100 of 37 balls - he played 7 deliveries from Zaheer and Malinga (concentrating on yorkers not bouncers) off which he scored 8 runs. Off the others (Murtaza, McLaren, Sathish and Jayasuriya) he scored 92 from 30! Its not too difficult to see the point. Of course there is such a thing as blinkers :)

[DomainK]

Just because someone is a good batsman against fast and short stuff, it is no guarantee against being hit. No player, howsoever good, has not been hit if he played genuine pace bowling over a long enough time. The issue is not that Yuvi and company get hit by short fast stuff but that their technique is faulty. You cant plonk your foot in front irrespective of the length of the ball every time. With medium paced stuff, if you have good hands you may be able to play them off the front foot(particularly on slow-low wickets) but quicker stuff will have you floundering. It is also a fallacy to say that just because you are from a country where wickets are not fast and bouncier you HAVE to have a poor technique against fast short stuff. SRT, Rahul and Dravid are not the only people who played such bowling well. We have had players in the past too who handled fast short stuff well. Gavaskar, Mohinder, Vishwanath, Kapil Dev are just some examples. It is faulty technique and bad coaching. The fact that the wickets are not fast bowler friendly is not responsible for your bad technique, it just makes you survive in spite of it. But bad technique can be seen when Yuvraj pulls everything off the front foot or while standing on the crease. Even when he hits that ball from the medium pacer for four or six, it is possible to ask, why did he not go back? As for the difference in Test and the T-20 format is concerned, yes there is a difference but if your technique is better it will serve you in both formats. That is why the top 20 highest scorers in ODI's are basically technically correct Test players. As players settle down with how best to bat in T-20, you will find the same happening there too. Already one can see the Test players getting more and more settled and starting to dominate. Yes T-20 has a problem. The batsmen seem to have little time to settle down but that applies whether you know how to pull or not. Of course people will get out quicker, not just pulling or hooking, but playing all kinds of strokes. Thats why the averages in T-20 will eventuallly be lower than ODI's and those for Tests will be the highest. But within that, the top players in longer version will do better in the shorter versions while the reverse, for batsmen, will rarely be true in the long run. I think Indians have another problem in T-20. There is this silly notion that IPL is a good training ground for t-20 internationals. Nothing can be further from the truth. Just have a look. India is truggling with bench strength already with a few players injured. In IPL with eight teams, you need 56 India players in the 'playing XI' as it were. Add minimum viable bench strength and we add another 25 more. Next year it will be ten teams so 70 plus 30 - a hundred Indians are needed. We cant find 20 to play in the T-20 world cup. What does it say of the standards in IPL? Of course, the T-20 world cup is a significant step upwards as far as bowling is concerned. The Indian batsmen do not have the luxury of playing the Agarkars, the Gonis. the Jaskarans, Joginder Sharmas, the Praveen Kumars as they had in the IPL. Those you may be able to pull and hook off the front foot - and on Indian wickets. Here there are at least three top class bowlers in every side. IPL gives Indian players a false sense of being in touch with the format at the highest level. The glitz, the glamour, the crowds and the money of IPL does not translate into better standards, it just appears so to the fan blinded by the lights. The players should know better. When Yousuf Pathan was smashing "the greatest innings ever seen" by Shane Warne - a devastating 100 of 37 balls - he played 7 deliveries from Zaheer and Malinga (concentrating on yorkers not bouncers) off which he scored 8 runs. Off the others (Murtaza, McLaren, Sathish and Jayasuriya) he scored 92 from 30! Its not too difficult to see the point. Of course there is such a thing as blinkers :)

Very good post. :two_thumbs_up:

[riya]

Just because someone is a good batsman against fast and short stuff, it is no guarantee against being hit. No player, howsoever good, has not been hit if he played genuine pace bowling over a long enough time. The issue is not that Yuvi and company get hit by short fast stuff but that their technique is faulty. You cant plonk your foot in front irrespective of the length of the ball every time. With medium paced stuff, if you have good hands you may be able to play them off the front foot(particularly on slow-low wickets) but quicker stuff will have you floundering. It is also a fallacy to say that just because you are from a country where wickets are not fast and bouncier you HAVE to have a poor technique against fast short stuff. SRT, Rahul and Dravid are not the only people who played such bowling well. We have had players in the past too who handled fast short stuff well. Gavaskar, Mohinder, Vishwanath, Kapil Dev are just some examples. It is faulty technique and bad coaching. The fact that the wickets are not fast bowler friendly is not responsible for your bad technique, it just makes you survive in spite of it. But bad technique can be seen when Yuvraj pulls everything off the front foot or while standing on the crease. Even when he hits that ball from the medium pacer for four or six, it is possible to ask, why did he not go back? As for the difference in Test and the T-20 format is concerned, yes there is a difference but if your technique is better it will serve you in both formats. That is why the top 20 highest scorers in ODI's are basically technically correct Test players. As players settle down with how best to bat in T-20, you will find the same happening there too. Already one can see the Test players getting more and more settled and starting to dominate. Yes T-20 has a problem. The batsmen seem to have little time to settle down but that applies whether you know how to pull or not. Of course people will get out quicker, not just pulling or hooking, but playing all kinds of strokes. Thats why the averages in T-20 will eventuallly be lower than ODI's and those for Tests will be the highest. But within that, the top players in longer version will do better in the shorter versions while the reverse, for batsmen, will rarely be true in the long run. I think Indians have another problem in T-20. There is this silly notion that IPL is a good training ground for t-20 internationals. Nothing can be further from the truth. Just have a look. India is truggling with bench strength already with a few players injured. In IPL with eight teams, you need 56 India players in the 'playing XI' as it were. Add minimum viable bench strength and we add another 25 more. Next year it will be ten teams so 70 plus 30 - a hundred Indians are needed. We cant find 20 to play in the T-20 world cup. What does it say of the standards in IPL? Of course, the T-20 world cup is a significant step upwards as far as bowling is concerned. The Indian batsmen do not have the luxury of playing the Agarkars, the Gonis. the Jaskarans, Joginder Sharmas, the Praveen Kumars as they had in the IPL. Those you may be able to pull and hook off the front foot - and on Indian wickets. Here there are at least three top class bowlers in every side. IPL gives Indian players a false sense of being in touch with the format at the highest level. The glitz, the glamour, the crowds and the money of IPL does not translate into better standards, it just appears so to the fan blinded by the lights. The players should know better. When Yousuf Pathan was smashing "the greatest innings ever seen" by Shane Warne - a devastating 100 of 37 balls - he played 7 deliveries from Zaheer and Malinga (concentrating on yorkers not bouncers) off which he scored 8 runs. Off the others (Murtaza, McLaren, Sathish and Jayasuriya) he scored 92 from 30! Its not too difficult to see the point. Of course there is such a thing as blinkers :)

Awesome post as always.And for that bolded part :hail:

[rkt.india]

I just wish instead of our batters always being peppered' date=' that we had some bowlers who were rapid who could pepper them and hit them in the head. Which was the point of this thread![/quote'] DSR got it right...my aim to defend our batsman is very well explained by him...why we always depend on batsman that heavily to win us the games?.....our cricket culture is not right...work ethics are not good...I think we are at no. 8 in tht aspect jst above Pakistan..even Bangladeshi's are better in their work ethics....I am certain if we would have batted first still we would have lost those 2 games and i am not sure if we would get 100 against Oz bowling while batting first...

[graphic23]

DSR got it right...my aim to defend our batsman is very well explained by him...why we always depend on batsman that heavily to win us the games?.....our cricket culture is not right...work ethics are not good...I think we are at no. 8 in tht aspect jst above Pakistan..even Bangladeshi's are better in their work ethics....I am certain if we would have batted first still we would have lost those 2 games and i am not sure if we would get 100 against Oz bowling while batting first...

You have gotta be kidding me! I will bet you that India and Indian cricketers have played the largest # of cricket games over the past 3 years. And some folks like MSD, Sehwag, Gambhir have been part of a significant portion of them. What the hell are you talking about work ethic? Do you know how strenuous the job of a wicketkeeper is? The captain of our team is a wicketkeeper, the #1 batsman in the world in one of the formats, and an important part of our team in the format that matters the most. You've gotta be kidding yourself if you're going to be telling me that folks like Dravid, Sachin, Laxman, Gambhir, Sehwag, et. al are where they are today without any sort of work ethic. The board is filled with morons who can't differentiate between what is random and what is actually a measure of skill. 9/10 times India would've beat West Indies and Sri Lanka in a test match. You want to bet? And as far as I can tell, the last 6 matches against the Aussies that we've played, they haven't won any and the 7th match was filled with farcical umpiring. And we're #2 in ODIs, and have been pretty steady there as well - only lost to Australia in bilateral series, I believe. Only highly optimistic or in several cases, braindead idiots would've expected this team to win a world cup with the amount of physical and mental strain they're put through every ****ing tour because of moronic fans and media. The selection of the team itself isn't right, and its been 3 years, and people still cant realize why India won the inaugural cup in 2007. :wall: Say what you want about India's mediocrity in T20 - but dont go around spreading absolute bullshit about how the players who play for the country in the other formats lack work ethic because you're being dishonest, and frankly, thick headed. South Africa hasn't won any tournament and has lost out on all of the cups - yet their work ethic is higher, and ours is poorer, right? ****ing hypocrites, the lot.

[rkt.india]

good work ethic in India plaeyrs...:haha: this is professional cricket..bt they dnt look professional at all..look at dhoni..he has stored fat on his back thts why he has back pain...look at yuraaj, sehwagt in fitness they dnt look cricketers...batting and bowling in the nets doesnt make thm professional....the most important thing is fitness...u have exceptions like Rahul Dravid who has been at almost the same since he debuted...many has developed tummies, chubby cheeks, look at Rohit, Chawla...they dnt work on diet at all which shows in tht extra fat...they are talented batsman thts why they are so highly rated...thats natural talent u cannot talk about SRT and RD in that aspects...they are exceptions....Saurav Ganguly is one of the most determined cricketer ever u will see...with so many deficiencies and attitude problems at the start of his career he has done well....bt still his fitness level was not up to the mark....many of them dnt want to work hard.. look at Munaf patel..he has been around for last 4-5 years..i dnt think he has ever thought seriously about his fitness level....think about Zaheer past his county stint...he had got fat...not bowling purposely juts trundling...they usually dnt learn until they get setback...and think same about Ozies u will see the difference...u will fool urself if u think they do enough hard work as a professional as Ozies do. dnt count RD or SRT in this list...nt many can do wt they have done jst not in India even at International level..they are exceptions....Gautam Gambhir is a dedicated cricketer bt not as talented as Yuvi or raina or rohit or sehwag...their talent is being wasted by not working on their deficits enough, by not working hard on fitness...they lose it with time...consistency and sustaining good fitness is important..until they improve their fitness they cant be called professional cricketers...look at the ozies they are real professionals cricket is more competitive now a days and more depend on athleticism and fitness S. africa is not the standard set here..it australia who after losing so many greats still raised themselves...though indian have nt lost against thm in the last 6 tests...bt still u cant say we can beat them easily if a test serie sis played..lest wait when Aussies come again late this year in test series. u talk about SA..we havent won a test series against SA in so many years even at home

[EnterTheVoid]

good work ethic in India plaeyrs...:haha: this is professional cricket..bt they dnt look professional at all..look at dhoni..he has stored fat on his back thts why he has back pain...look at yuraaj, sehwagt in fitness they dnt look cricketers...batting and bowling in the nets doesnt make thm professional....the most important thing is fitness...u have exceptions like Rahul Dravid who has been at almost the same since he debuted...many has developed tummies, chubby cheeks, look at Rohit, Chawla...they dnt work on diet at all which shows in tht extra fat...they are talented batsman thts why they are so highly rated...thats natural talent u cannot talk about SRT and RD in that aspects...they are exceptions....Saurav Ganguly is one of the most determined cricketer ever u will see...with so many deficiencies and attitude problems at the start of his career he has done well....bt still his fitness level was not up to the mark....many of them dnt want to work hard.. look at Munaf patel..he has been around for last 4-5 years..i dnt think he has ever thought seriously about his fitness level....think about Zaheer past his county stint...he had got fat...not bowling purposely juts trundling...they usually dnt learn until they get setback...and think same about Ozies u will see the difference...u will fool urself if u think they do enough hard work as a professional as Ozies do. dnt count RD or SRT in this list...nt many can do wt they have done jst not in India even at International level..they are exceptions....Gautam Gambhir is a dedicated cricketer bt not as talented as Yuvi or raina or rohit or sehwag...their talent is being wasted by not working on their deficits enough, by not working hard on fitness...they lose it with time...consistency and sustaining good fitness is important..until they improve their fitness they cant be called professional cricketers...look at the ozies they are real professionals cricket is more competitive now a days and more depend on athleticism and fitness S. africa is not the standard set here..it australia who after losing so many greats still raised themselves...though indian have nt lost against thm in the last 6 tests...bt still u cant say we can beat them easily if a test serie sis played..lest wait when Aussies come again late this year in test series. u talk about SA..we havent won a test series against SA in so many years even at home

My sauces tell me, that came from eating too many ladoo's and not from the workload.

[King Tendulkar]

Days like today emphasisie the desperation we have for an express fast bolwer. Despite many sticking their head in the sand and clinging to the pace does not matter mantra BS. Fact is on days like today only real pace could do any damage on such flat tracks.

[Sir john]

india next geniune pace bolwer who is????

[99.94]

The Great Khali?

[Sir john]

The Great Khali?

:haha::haha::haha:

[Sachin200*]

DSR got it right...my aim to defend our batsman is very well explained by him...why we always depend on batsman that heavily to win us the games?.....our cricket culture is not right...work ethics are not good...I think we are at no. 8 in tht aspect jst above Pakistan..even Bangladeshi's are better in their work ethics....I am certain if we would have batted first still we would have lost those 2 games and i am not sure if we would get 100 against Oz bowling while batting first...

Honestly go support Pakistan i cant believe how negative some indian fans are for god sake we r no.1 test side & no.3 odi side with average bowlers india scored more than 600 in sydney in 2004 against aussie bowlers Bangladesh better than India in work ethics yea right one Tendulkar is enough for whole Bangladesh & Pakistan thats the calibre Indian batsman have .

[Andy]

What has Pissant done in domestic cricket to get back into the Side?

[Sir john]

What has Pissant done in domestic cricket to get back into the Side?

i said na he need a break of 2 year.

[achilles]

Gary Kirsten-

"If he is going to be a batting allrounder, he has to be able to make a contribution with the ball. We can't have a guy bowling at 115 kmph, holding up one end and getting one wicket every five Test matches. He has got to be able to make a proper contribution with the ball. Irfan [Pathan] was certainly one of the individuals that we earmarked, but he is probably a little bit light on his bowling side."

If even the coach feels we need a quicker bowler who can bat a bit, its high time we got one. Irfan might like to reconsider his words, given that he thought his pace was enough last time he was interviewed. In a population of a billion, we can't find ONE express pacer. Its beyond logic.

[Andy]

Gary Kirsten- If even the coach feels we need a quicker bowler who can bat a bit, its high time we got one. Irfan might like to reconsider his words, given that he thought his pace was enough last time he was interviewed. In a population of a billion, we can't find ONE express pacer. Its beyond logic.

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