Sehwag has been FAR MORE devastating in test cricket, yet Pietersen is made to be like some colossus

[patriot]

Sehwag's record as a test opener because of the combination of his strike rate( nearly 80) and average makes him one of his kind in the history of cricket. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35263.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/19296.html?class=1;template=results;type=batting Besides Sehwag avgs 50 both home and away, Pietersen's away avg drops to 43 and his performance in the subcontinent has been VERY MODEST in as many as 11 test matches. (avg 34)

[Don Sharma]

I'd have liked the comparison to be between Kallis and Flintoff. In every parameter you could conceivably think of, batting, bowling, catching and longevity, Kallis blows Flintoff out of the water.The former is the greatest fast bowling all-rounder that ever lived. Yet, do you see him rated ahead of Flintoff, let alone the likes of Imran, Botham, Kapil, and Hadley? The reason you don't is because of his lack of flamboyance, his eschewing of controversy and self promotion. If Flintoff has one thing in common with Botham and Imran, it is his capacity to promote himself. He milked every femtolitre of his Ashes performance in 2005 to dryness, resorting to mouthing "Oh Freddie Freddie" himself after taking wickets. Newspaper interviews, TV shows followed, his bank balance burgeoned by millions. He has the same penchant for courting controversy as Botham or Imran. If Botham had a reputation as the grass snorter and Imran as the womaniser (deservedly or undeservedly), Freddie is the teenage boozer who never grew up. Apparently, it adds to his charm.

What about Sir Gary then? Yes he did bowl his chinaman et all but he also opened the bowling for the Windies on more than one occassion. In my book he qualifies as a fast bowling all-rounder and the greatest ever. Over to the OP...I think KP is far more crucial to England than Sehwag is for India. Viru is just one of the diamonds of the Indian batting crown but KP is the only one the English got. So whatever he does it stands up and takes notice unlike Viru. A classic example is that of Damien Martyn. He was such a prolific player and one of the few RHB that looked really good to watch. But having played in a team that had so many greats he never really got the accolades that he richly deserved. If he had played for a mediocre team, I bet he would have been recognised a lot more and deservedly so.

[patriot]

Donsharma, We take flying starts from sehwag for granted, thats why you feel that way. Sehwag, by simply blasting his way in the initial overs has set up many a match for India. The match against England chasing 387 in Chennai, SRT scored a century and we won. But who set it up ? Sehwag tore England bowlers to bits blasting 83 of just 66 balls. There's no frickin way our " jewels" would have taken India even close to that record target had Veeru not given that he did.

[patriot]

What about Sir Gary then? Yes he did bowl his chinaman et all but he also opened the bowling for the Windies on more than one occassion. In my book he qualifies as a fast bowling all-rounder and the greatest ever. Over to the OP...I think KP is far more crucial to England than Sehwag is for India. Viru is just one of the diamonds of the Indian batting crown but KP is the only one the English got. So whatever he does it stands up and takes notice unlike Viru. A classic example is that of Damien Martyn. He was such a prolific player and one of the few RHB that looked really good to watch. But having played in a team that had so many greats he never really got the accolades that he richly deserved. If he had played for a mediocre team, I bet he would have been recognised a lot more and deservedly so.

Bowling strike rate of 92 and 2.5 wicket/match...Sobers might have had alot of variety, but he clearly was not a very effective bowler. Top 5 batsmen of all time though.

[Don Sharma]

Donsharma, We take flying starts from sehwag for granted, thats why you feel that way. Sehwag, by simply blasting his way in the initial overs has set up many a match for India. The match against England chasing 387 in Chennai, SRT scored a century and we won. But who set it up ? Sehwag tore England bowlers to bits blasting 83 of just 66 balls. There's no frickin way our " jewels" would have taken India even close to that record target had Veeru not given that he did.

That's what I am saying patriot. Viru doesn't get praised enough 'cause of the fab four around him. Infact there was one thread discussing where UV will end up once he hangs the boot.I remember the comparisons were made against Sachin, Azar, Ganguly and Kapil Dev nobody cared to mention Viru. Why? 'Cause Viru's quick fire 30 or 40 doesn't get noticed as long as people are obssessed with numbers.

[DomainK]

It's a misconception that Viru does not get enough praise. I have seen plenty.

[Don Sharma]

Bowling strike rate of 92 and 2.5 wicket/match...Sobers might have had alot of variety' date=' but he clearly was not a very effective bowler. Top 5 batsmen of all time though.[/quote'] Well I done believe in numbers, nevertheless... Sir Gary 235wkts in 159inns Kallis 258wkts in 219. Now you do the calculations. To me he is not just the BEST ever allrounder but the BEST ever cricketer as well.

[The Outsider]

I'd have liked the comparison to be between Kallis and Flintoff. In every parameter you could conceivably think of, batting, bowling, catching and longevity, Kallis blows Flintoff out of the water. The former is the greatest fast bowling all-rounder that ever lived. Yet, do you see him rated ahead of Flintoff, let alone the likes of Imran, Botham, Kapil, and Hadley?

I disagree fundamentally on this comparison. Not saying that Flintoff is comparable to Kallis as a cricketer but they are different breeds of allrounders. Flintoff a bowling allrounder with the likes of Imran and Kapil and Kallis a batting allrounder like Sobers. Flintoff as a bowler is much better than Kallis, who at best is a steady operator and a partnership breaker. As batsmen of course, it is not even a comparison.

[Dhondy]

Well I done believe in numbers, nevertheless... Sir Gary 235wkts in 159inns Kallis 258wkts in 219. Now you do the calculations. To me he is not just the BEST ever allrounder but the BEST ever cricketer as well.

Couple of points. Not even Sir Gary's greatest fan would term him a fast bowling allrounder. Kallis is genuinely fast- certainly as fast or faster than Kaps, Hadlee and Botham and occasionally getting up to the Imran kinda pace. Secondly, use of selective stats weakens your argument. Sobers averaged 34 with the ball, and had a SR of 92. Kallis averages 31 and has a SR of 66. South Africa use him as a strike bowler, not the carthorse. It isn't as clearcut as you think. I regard Kallis as possibly the greatest cricketer of this generation. His achievements won't be appreciated until he's gone.

[patriot]

Dhondy, Kallis the batter has the numbers. But I don't think he's as good with the bat as he is made out to be. He's played 1/3 rd of his matches against Zim + Pi$$ poor Windies + Banger's and absolutely cashed on his average with the not outs. He was easy deal for the Aussies when McWarne and Gillespie played.

[Dhondy]

I disagree fundamentally on this comparison. Not saying that Flintoff is comparable to Kallis as a cricketer but they are different breeds of allrounders. Flintoff a bowling allrounder with the likes of Imran and Kapil and Kallis a batting allrounder like Sobers. Flintoff as a bowler is much better than Kallis' date= who at best is a steady operator and a partnership breaker. As batsmen of course, it is not even a comparison.

Disagree if you like, but where's the evidence for what you say? The batting allrounder with over 200 Tests wickets also has a better bowling average than the so called bowling all rounder at an identical SR. Kallis' part time role is a function of the fast bowling riches in the SA team, Flintoff's strike role a consequence of the poverty in English ranks. Take a look at the quality of their victims and top-bottom order wicket splits for a better picture.

[Dhondy]

Dhondy, Kallis the batter has the numbers. But I don't think he's as good with the bat as he is made out to be. He's played 1/3 rd of his matches against Zim + Pi$$ poor Windies + Banger's and absolutely cashed on his average with the not outs. He was easy deal for the Aussies when McWarne and Gillespie played.

The man averages over 40 against all sides bar SL and quite clearly doesn't deserve such a putdown. Everybody averages great against BD & WI. So why are you singling him out?

[patriot]

Because he has played a large % of his games against them + Zimbabwe

[Lord]

i think Flintoff is more popular than Kallis coz he is far more aggresive both as a bowler n as a batsman.as a batsman,Kallis is technically brilliant but a boring batsman.he doesnt have a signature innings which people remember.as a bowler,he is steady at best,he is yet to have a series like Flintoff had in 2005.

[Gambit]

i think Flintoff is more popular than Kallis coz he is far more aggresive both as a bowler n as a batsman.as a batsman' date='Kallis is technically brilliant but a boring batsman.he doesnt have a signature innings which people remember.as a bowler,he is steady at best,he is yet to have a series like Flintoff had in 2005.[/quote'] I found this knock unforgettable - http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64117.html

[Mr. Wicket]

I found this knock unforgettable - http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/64117.html

Brings back memories. Great match. The knock I remember most from that game though is Ntini's little burst at the end. Two wickets to defend for a loss, a handful of overs with light rapidly worsening, Harmison bowling at 90 mph... and Ntini belts Harmison for four boundaries in an over, including one straight over his head.