1 great bowling performance after 4 yrs, 0 good batting performance in 4 yrs, Freddie is superman

[patriot]

The team of proven match winners won jack all away from home until Ganguly came at the helm. Just a quick recap - '96 0-1 v Eng '96 0-2 v RSA '97 0-1 v WI '98 0-1 v NZ '99 0-3 v OZ Under Ganguly, we became a different team abroad. Just compare the number of wins under Ganguly abroad with the number of wins in the last 20 odd years under various captains before he came. And before you say that Ganguly had nothing to do with those wins, he contributed in wins in Pak,WI,England and Sri Lanka. India, under Ganguly, looked a very different outfit compared to India of the 90s. Just because you can't find the filter for this in statsguru doesn't mean this assertion is false. Scores of commentators, cricket journalists and former players stated this not once but again and again and again. But hey, maybe they should shut up and let statsguru do all the talking.

LOL @ above. Boss, you sound like a broken record, someone who feeds of parochial Bengali journalists. For someone who claims to have watched Indian cricket a few years earlier than me, your conclusion I am afraid is that of someone who neither understands how and why our test cricket performances overseas have improved nor has the ability to interpret statistics. My last ditch attempt to hammer some sense and burst the silly myth ( that Ganguly came and we became a different team abroad that suddenly started winning overseas ). GAMBIT MYTH: Because Ganguly captained we became a different team abroad because of the “ steel” he injected in the team . FACTS in simple steps: India’s winning abroad had nothing to do with Ganguly , but with the fact that after Gavaskar ( during whose time we won a tests abroad) , we din’t have any openers worth their salt and hence played with 2 batsmen less OVERSEAS .Elaborating the fact above: PROOF: *We SUCKED overseas because we played all the while with 2 BATSMEN LESS –as our openers rarely scored in double digits. Facing a newish ball, our middle order could rarely play in their comfort zones. When they battled through that we drew matches overseas, when they dint we lost badly. *Throughout the Azhar era, overseas we played all sorts of permutation combination with the openers failing all attempts – these involved Ajay Jadeja, Nayan Mongia, WV Raman, Vikram Rathore and Sidhu. Sidhu was good on Indian pitches, and a utter failure in places like Australia and England. All these make shift openers made for a miserable combination with a certainty of losing a wicket before reaching double figures. *Then Sachin came for a while, permutations and combinations continued with openers: VVS laxman, S Ramesh , Debang Gandhi – the last 2 pathetic flat track bullys. *Enter Ganguly . First 3 series overseas we perform pathetically again failing to beat lowly Zimbabwe ( 1-1), losing to a pi$$ poor WI( 1-2) and getting thrashed as usual in SA.( 0-2) – the openers dilemma continued ….. New permutations under Ganguly Now SS Das( another home track bully) is tried , Deep Dasgupta, Wasim Jaffer ( who blows hot and cold ) …heck Dravid is tried as opener in SA. ***Enter the fantabulous hyper talented Sehwag . Batting at No.6 in SA, he blasts a century in typical style. Being too good to be dropped from the playing XI and unable to find a place in the middle order , this time he too is tried as an opener for the first time in England. Veeru blasts a merciless 80 in his very first inning as opener, going on to make a century in the next match as well. The rest is history. Veeru cements his place as opener. We finally have someone who can blows the opening bowlers of the opposition how easily they used to blow our opening batsmen. *Veeru pairs with various support cast from time to time- Jaffer, Chopra ( with whom they together thwarted Aus in Aus as well as murdered P@kis in their backyard) . Finally comes Gambhir, we finally have our own answer to Langer/ Hayden. *Veeru in tow with other openers now start making good to great opening partnerships ,we start posting 400 + totals regularly , hence we start winning matches overseas giving our bowlers something to bowl at – KUMBLE has said repeatedly that this is the single reason why our performances have picked up overseas. *Other factors include coming of age of Zaheer and a better fast bowling bench strength, as well as improvement in Kumbles performance overseas in response to his constant criticism. *If you still don’t understand and stick by your absurd myth, then you must perhaps switch to some other sport. Also its wise to use your own judgements rather than feed of “ journalists” and “ experts” .

Australia prided themselves on unsettling teams off the field even before the cricket began. SRW acknowledged that Australia's tactics were not successful in the 2001 series because of Ganguly's return fire. RSA were almost as good as OZ on paper but mentally, they weren't even on the same map. India under Ganguly matched Australia on and off the field. BTW who fought with the selectors to get Harbhajan included? Was it statsguru? Like it or not, the mental aspect of the game made a huge difference against the Aussies.

Yada…Yada ..yada. More rubbish myths. We tried a plethora of spinners on that trip including Rahul Sanghvi, Nilesh Kulkarni, Sairaj Bahutule , even brining back Narendra Hirwani from a long hiatus for a tour game. Harbhajan Singh just happened to be one of them. He clicked and played all the tests producing a performance of a lifetime. Ganguly “ backed” all these spinners not just Harbhajan.

Fact 1 - Ganguly has won more MoM awards than any other KKR player in the IPL.

Yet he ended up with the lowest average among frontline batsmen and his employers kept baying for his blood. Continues to make a joke of himself while fielding as well. Another season of failure WILL happen. Promise.

SRT's 4th innings performances aren't the best but then again aren't the worst either. It's much better than Sehwag's 30 though. Despite his average 4th innings performance, Tendulkar atleast has 3 epic tons in the 4th innings. 136 v Pak at Chennai which we all know about(since it happened in the 90s, you might have missed it), 119* v England to save a game and 103* v England last year.

You are clutching to straws by using selective stats…4th innings avg et al. SRT averages a lowly 35 in the 4th innings. SRT can’t match to save his life, the demoralizing effect and fear that Veeru creates in the best of bowlers. His series of 150+ centuries ( 12 of them ?) , 2 triple tons in just 70 odd matches. He is in a different league. What Veeru has done as an opener is unprecedented in cricket. Like I have shown above India will be eternally grateful to Sehwags contribution in ending the overseas test victory draught.

Tendulkar averages 53 in finals.

See, this is your problem, you are a very poor student both in cricket as well as stats. Best teams LOL!!! For 10 fricking years from 1999-2008 ( over 200 ODIS) and some 15 tri series finals he has been a utter choker. After 10 years he played a knock in a FINAL for India in the VB series final. Give me a 30 odd averaging jayasuriya or Gilly anyday . They don’t accumulate as many runs but on the BIG DAYS….SRT is not fit to tie their laces. Jayasuriya averages a whopping 50+ in finals last 10 years with a strike rate of 90 . 1999- 2008 SRT performance in finals, avg of 25.83 , strike rate of pathetic 69. With Sehwag he has always been inconsistent in ODIs with SRT it is pure choking. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;orderby=default;spanmax1=05+Feb+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting The finals where SRT did cash in BIG TIME..to add to his glorious numbers are..against Kenya and Zimbabwe. Against Kenya: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66150.html Against Zimbabwe: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65886.html Gambit bhai , bahut seekhna hai aapko abhi, cricket ko samajna or stats ko padhna.

[Gambit]

LOL @ above. Boss, you sound like a broken record, someone who feeds of parochial Bengali journalists. For someone who claims to have watched Indian cricket a few years earlier than me, your conclusion I am afraid is that of someone who neither understands how and why our test cricket performances overseas have improved nor has the ability to interpret statistics. My last ditch attempt to hammer some sense and burst the silly myth ( that Ganguly came and we became a different team abroad that suddenly started winning overseas ).

YOU are accusing me of being a broken record? LOL! Sounds hilarious from someone who has so far demonstrated a single point agenda in thread after thread. BTW here's a parochial Bengali journalist I feed off -

As captain he was an uplifting figure prepared to stand up for his players. It is easily forgotten that his captaincy started with Indian cricket at its lowest ebb. Hereabouts India was extremely lucky to have at its disposal a superb group of senior players untouched by those dire events, and a new captain free from the insecurity and greed that had undone his predecessor. Accepting money from grubby sources was, one sensed, beneath Ganguly. He just did not move in those circles or think along those lines. Not that Ganguly alone deserves all the credit for India's swift recovery. Around him could be found a resolute and principled bunch of cricketers. They needed someone to blow the bugle and Ganguly obliged. That is leadership. Alone among the cricketing nations, his Indian side repeatedly troubled the Australians. Under his leadership the team prevailed in England, daring to bat first on a Headingley greentop. Indeed the very image of Indian cricket changed - a process started by Sunil Gavaskar and completed by Ganguly and companions. No longer does anyone talk about timidity against fast bowling or languishing overseas. Driven in varying degrees by pride and professionalism, the now-departing generation acknowledged these weaknesses, confronted them and corrected them. Ganguly was at his most effective against the Australians. Somehow he sensed that the two nations had a lot in common, though they knew it not. But he felt that his players were unduly intimidated by the reputations and muscularity of these opponents. Accordingly he set out to convince them that the Aussies were human and could be beaten. In India he turned up late for the toss, a cheekiness that began as an accident and became an amusing tactic. It worked. The Australians became riled and started to play the man and not the ball. They had fallen into Ganguly's trap. His players could see that he was neither scared nor scarred, and enjoyed plucking the giant's beard. As captain Ganguly understood the value of gestures, the importance of appearances.

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/377000.html?cmp=viral Know him? Here's another Bengali bandhu -

All the insinuations and scathing articles were indicative of a rotten system that could rarely see beyond the cricketing hotbeds of Mumbai, Delhi and Karnataka. If you were from Bengal or Tamil Nadu, or an even lesser state, the chances were that you weren't even a blip on the radar. In many ways Ganguly's second coming and century on debut at Lord's were to herald a shift away from parochialism, a sea change that was completed during his years as captain. These days, if no one bats an eyelid when a boy from Rae Bareilly or another from Kochi dons the India cap, much of the credit must go to the Bengali who became a pan-Indian hero. Much like the West Indies of the 1950s, the Indian team that Ganguly inherited contained many talented individuals with no real sense of collective purpose.

http://www.cricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/372935.html Damn those Bengalis!! :D No doubt these guys were on Ganguly's payroll. :-!

GAMBIT MYTH: Because Ganguly captained we became a different team abroad because of the “ steel” he injected in the team . FACTS in simple steps: India’s winning abroad had nothing to do with Ganguly , but with the fact that after Gavaskar ( during whose time we won a tests abroad) , we din’t have any openers worth their salt and hence played with 2 batsmen less OVERSEAS .Elaborating the fact above: PROOF: *We SUCKED overseas because we played all the while with 2 BATSMEN LESS –as our openers rarely scored in double digits. Facing a newish ball, our middle order could rarely play in their comfort zones. When they battled through that we drew matches overseas, when they dint we lost badly. *Throughout the Azhar era, overseas we played all sorts of permutation combination with the openers failing all attempts – these involved Ajay Jadeja, Nayan Mongia, WV Raman, Vikram Rathore and Sidhu. Sidhu was good on Indian pitches, and a utter failure in places like Australia and England. All these make shift openers made for a miserable combination with a certainty of losing a wicket before reaching double figures. *Then Sachin came for a while, permutations and combinations continued with openers: VVS laxman, S Ramesh , Debang Gandhi – the last 2 pathetic flat track bullys. *Enter Ganguly . First 3 series overseas we perform pathetically again failing to beat lowly Zimbabwe ( 1-1), losing to a pi$$ poor WI( 1-2) and getting thrashed as usual in SA.( 0-2) – the openers dilemma continued ….. New permutations under Ganguly Now SS Das( another home track bully) is tried , Deep Dasgupta, Wasim Jaffer ( who blows hot and cold ) …heck Dravid is tried as opener in SA. ***Enter the fantabulous hyper talented Sehwag . Batting at No.6 in SA, he blasts a century in typical style. Being too good to be dropped from the playing XI and unable to find a place in the middle order , this time he too is tried as an opener for the first time in England. Veeru blasts a merciless 80 in his very first inning as opener, going on to make a century in the next match as well. The rest is history. Veeru cements his place as opener. We finally have someone who can blows the opening bowlers of the opposition how easily they used to blow our opening batsmen. *Veeru pairs with various support cast from time to time- Jaffer, Chopra ( with whom they together thwarted Aus in Aus as well as murdered P@kis in their backyard) . Finally comes Gambhir, we finally have our own answer to Langer/ Hayden. *Veeru in tow with other openers now start making good to great opening partnerships ,we start posting 400 + totals regularly , hence we start winning matches overseas giving our bowlers something to bowl at – KUMBLE has said repeatedly that this is the single reason why our performances have picked up overseas. *Other factors include coming of age of Zaheer and a better fast bowling bench strength, as well as improvement in Kumbles performance overseas in response to his constant criticism. *If you still don’t understand and stick by your absurd myth, then you must perhaps switch to some other sport. Also its wise to use your own judgements rather than feed of “ journalists” and “ experts” .

The logic with which you aim to discredit Ganguly can be used for any other captain. All of SRW's achievements can be put down to McWarne, Lloyd to WIPQ etc. Your point of pathetic openers and weak bowling is an obvious one. Our batting away from home in the 90s was very brittle and the bowling insipid. Ganguly identified this and wanted fresh fast bowlers in his team and not the same old regurgitated rubbish. This is why the likes of Zak, Nehra etc burst on the scene. Ever wonder why there was a sudden explosion of fast bowlers under Ganguly despite the pitches getting even duller and duller? As I said before, Indian Cricket had done a volte face and the priorities had changed. When Wright and Ganguly came together they identified the need for better fast bowlers and winning matches overseas and worked towards achieving that. It was all about the mindset. Coming to Sehwag, he had always been a middle order bat his entire life. Guess whose idea was it to make him open in SL v NZ? It was hailed as a masterstroke. He also promoted him as opener in England which Sehwag himself acknowledges(maybe he's a parochial Bengali journalist by night :hysterical:) -

PTI: You cut your teeth under Sourav Ganguly. He was the one who made you an opener? Sehwag: Yes, it was in Sri Lanka I hit gold in the third match with that blistering century off 69 balls (against New Zealand). A lot of youngsters, including me, came to the fore under Dada. Remember, when he took over world cricket was reeling under the impact of match-fixing.He always backed us. For instance when I was Man of the Match against Australia early in my career, he assured me that I would play in at least next 30 one-day matches. Even when he promoted me as an opener, he told me to bat without worry as he wouldn't touch me for the next 30-35 games. When your captain backs you in this manner, your confidence is sky-high. He was also an extremely aggressive captain.

http://cricketnext.in.com/news/coach-chappell-betrayed-our-trust-sehwag/37574-13.html Your god has spoken. Open your eyes now. And with Sehwag...was it the mere 'presence' that made us suddenly start to win games? Did he inspire the team with his 30s and 40s? The FACT is that Sehwag under Ganguly does not have a single 50 in a match won by India away from home.

Yada…Yada ..yada. More rubbish myths. We tried a plethora of spinners on that trip including Rahul Sanghvi, Nilesh Kulkarni, Sairaj Bahutule , even brining back Narendra Hirwani from a long hiatus for a tour game. Harbhajan Singh just happened to be one of them. He clicked and played all the tests producing a performance of a lifetime. Ganguly “ backed” all these spinners not just Harbhajan.

Recommended reading -

The selectors were furious when they found Harbhajan in the team dressing room in Delhi, and this sparked a showdown between selectors and captain. "The selectors didn't want 'Bajju' in the team, or even in the nets and the dressing room," says a senior player, in disgust. At that point in time, Sarandeep Singh was the selectors' blue-eyed boy. Informed opinion is that he is a good off spinner with tremendous potential, but that it will take a year or so of hard work for that potential to be realized. Harbhajan, meanwhile, through dint of sheer hard work - with, it needs adding, absolutely no support from the BCCI and the selectors - become the finished article, but the selectors didn't think so. One man who did, was John Geoffrey Wright, India's coach. After watching Harbhajan in the nets for the first time, that day in Delhi, Wright exclaimed to his captain, "This guy is amazing, he is the match-winner we have been looking for. Will he be in the team for the series against Australia? We need him!" The chances were dim. The selectors in their combined wisdom, had already decided that Sarandeep would be India's off spinner for the series against the Ashes. For his part, Wright pushed hard to get Harbhajan included in the squad for the camp in Madras, figuring that this was the first step. And then, Sourav Ganguly walked out to bat - for his team-mate, this time. Ganguly has during the course of the ongoing series against Australia come in for more than his share of criticism. A lot of which has centered around his reported liaison with a starlet, and the consequent domestic problems he has been facing. Ganguly being Ganguly, he took this particular bull by the horns when, at the end of the Madras Test, he deflated potential critics by saying, "Yes, I have had a bad time with the bat, and it is possible there have been other things in my mind." Having, too, copped a lot of natter at the hands of the Aussies about his 'friend', Ganguly took that too head on, by ensuring that his now-reconciled wife was right upfront in Madras. It was Ganguly, in this trademark head-on fashion, who took up the Harbhajan Singh cause in Madras, during the camp. Single-handedly, he fought with the selectors, standing up to them and insisting that Harbhajan should be part of the Test squad. On one occasion, he even stormed out of a meeting with the selectors and threatened to pull out, or go public, or both. It was his intransigence on the subject, with the full backing of his coach, that forced the selectors into picking Harbhajan Singh ahead of Sarandeep for the series against Australia. "Ganguly backs his players; if he believes in you he will fight anyone for you," says a team-mate. "He will go any lengths to have the people he wants in the team, all that talk of his being an arrogant leader is pure rubbish. Now, the selectors are taking all the bouquets for Bajju's performance - no one mentions that it was all the doing of Ganguly and Wright."

http://www.rediff.com/cricket/2001/mar/27diary.htm Another parochial Bengali journalist no doubt.

Yet he ended up with the lowest average among frontline batsmen and his employers kept baying for his blood. Continues to make a joke of himself while fielding as well. Another season of failure WILL happen. Promise.

When Ganguly performed with the bat and led, KKR ended up 6th narrowly missing out on the semis, always in with a chance right until the end. When he wasn't captain, they ended up dead last. See the connection?

You are clutching to straws by using selective stats…4th innings avg et al. SRT averages a lowly 35 in the 4th innings. SRT can’t match to save his life, the demoralizing effect and fear that Veeru creates in the best of bowlers. His series of 150+ centuries ( 12 of them ?) , 2 triple tons in just 70 odd matches. He is in a different league. What Veeru has done as an opener is unprecedented in cricket. Like I have shown above India will be eternally grateful to Sehwags contribution in ending the overseas test victory draught.

1. SRT averages 37 not 35. If 37 is lowly, what adjective do you have in mind for Veeru's glittering 30 average in the 4th innings? 2. Sehwag is equally pathetic in the 3rd innings of the game with a grand average of 30. From a total of 50 3rd and 4th innings innings, he has just 1 ton. Pathetic by any standards. 3. The triple century, unprecedented yada yada yada. You are singing once again from the same hymn sheet. Yes, he's a phenom but he is pathetic in the final stages of the test match. I asked you earlier if you would use the same excuses for SRT but you cleverly evaded that. 4. I am 'eternally grateful' to Sehwag for ending our overseas drought with the following stellar performances in matches India has won overseas - 309 at Multan 201* + 50 at Galle 2 tons and a 50 in 9 tests and 14 innings. Zero outside the subcon. Bravo! How on earth did we manage the win the other 7 tests is the greatest mystery of all time! Must be down to his awesome 10s and 20s. :D Just as a comparison, here is someone you might know from movies such as 'Boy Wonder', 'It's the 90s and I'm the boy on the burning deck' and 'I swear I'm not a choker' - 117 at POS 193 at Leeds 194* at Multan 91 at Nottingham 71 at Perth 160 at Hamilton 4 tons and 2 50s in 10 tests and 16 innings. Just 2 more than Veeru, with double the hundreds and fifties. 5 outside the subcon.

See, this is your problem, you are a very poor student both in cricket as well as stats. Best teams LOL!!! For 10 fricking years from 1999-2008 ( over 200 ODIS) and some 15 tri series finals he has been a utter choker. After 10 years he played a knock in a FINAL for India in the VB series final. Give me a 30 odd averaging jayasuriya or Gilly anyday . They don’t accumulate as many runs but on the BIG DAYS….SRT is not fit to tie their laces. Jayasuriya averages a whopping 50+ in finals last 10 years with a strike rate of 90 . 1999- 2008 SRT performance in finals, avg of 25.83 , strike rate of pathetic 69. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/...s;type=batting The finals where SRT did cash in BIG TIME..to add to his glorious numbers are..against Kenya and Zimbabwe. Against Kenya: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/66150.html Against Zimbabwe: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/65886.html

Earlier you accused me of this -

You are clutching to straws by using selective stats

but now you slice and dice the stats to dig yourself out of a hole when I gave his overall career average. Anywho, I'll humour you. You mentioned Jayasuriya. Here he is without either Bangladesh or Kenya or Zimbabwe in finals - 37 innings, 1577 runs@44 with just 2 tons and 13 50s. Both tons against India. Same stats for Tendulkar - 35 innings, 1471 runs@46 with 3 tons and 10 50s. 2 tons against Australia and one against Sri Lanka. Seem pretty similar don't they? Tendulkar marginally ahead on tons and average. In finals won, Sanath averages 61 with a SR of 99 and Sachin 80 with a SR of 93. Sachin ahead. Here is the interesting bit. Jaya bhai simply hates to chase. He averages a pathetic 28 in finals while chasing with just 3 50s. What a choker! :D Tendulkar on the other hand averages 45 with 2 tons and 5 50s. What's more, Jayasuriya has just 1...yes just 1 match winning 50 while chasing a target in tournament finals. What a 'BIG DAY' performer indeed! And this epic knock came 12 years ago!! :hysterical: Seems to me like your hero lazy Sanath loves to bat first and then let Murali etc win him the game but is a real scaredy cat when the onus is on him to win the game in the 2nd innings :-! Sachin on the other hand has 2 HUNDREDS AND 2 50s AND averages 71 in matches won while chasing. So who isn't fit to tie whose laces? :giggle:

With Sehwag he has always been inconsistent in ODIs with SRT it is pure choking.

LOL!!! The grandest excuse of them all. When Sehwag fails, patriot will pat Veeru's bald head and blame it on inconsistency but when SRT fails, patriot will jump and perform the Heimlich maneuver on SRT. What epic double standards and goal post shifting! :hysterical:

Gambit bhai , bahut seekhna hai aapko abhi, cricket ko samajna or stats ko padhna.

Main maanta hoon ki mujhe bahut kuch seekhna hai lekin prabhuji main chalna to seekh chuka hoon. Aap to abhi bhi ladh khada rahen hain:desiwoman:

[Mr. Wicket]

Gambo... ouch!

[vvvslaxman]

Why is everyone talking about Tendulkar in a FLintoff thread

[graphic23]

Why is everyone talking about Tendulkar in a FLintoff thread

I suggest that you watch this video to understand the phenomenon of patriot here. Particularly, look at the map that is drawn on the sand. http://tinyurl.com/klcyye

[patriot]

YOU are accusing me of being a broken record? LOL! Sounds hilarious from someone who has so far demonstrated a single point agenda in thread after thread. BTW here's a parochial Bengali journalist I feed off - Know him? The logic with which you aim to discredit Ganguly can be used for any other captain. All of SRW's achievements can be put down to McWarne, Lloyd to WIPQ etc. Your point of pathetic openers and weak bowling is an obvious one. Our batting away from home in the 90s was very brittle and the bowling insipid. Ganguly identified this and wanted fresh fast bowlers in his team and not the same old regurgitated rubbish. This is why the likes of Zak, Nehra etc burst on the scene. Ever wonder why there was a sudden explosion of fast bowlers under Ganguly despite the pitches getting even duller and duller? As I said before, Indian Cricket had done a volte face and the priorities had changed. When Wright and Ganguly came together they identified the need for better fast bowlers and winning matches overseas and worked towards achieving that. It was all about the mindset. Coming to Sehwag, he had always been a middle order bat his entire life. Guess whose idea was it to make him open in SL v NZ? It was hailed as a masterstroke. He also promoted him as opener in England which Sehwag himself acknowledges(maybe he's a parochial Bengali journalist by night :hysterical:) -

:haha::haha: Bade saheb, you are so full of it. The fact that you don't even understand, the massive difference between opening in tests and opening in onedayers goes to show that this argument is becoming increasingly futile. As I have writen in the earlier post we tried permutations and combinations with like a 12 makeshift TEST openers through the 90's and the start of Ganguly's captainship. Even while he captained we experimented with maharathis like Rahul Dravid. VVS another opener experiment failed.Deep Dasgupta was also tried, under Ganguly , he too failed. Then we tried Sehwag who did what , no one in Indian cricket was willing or capable of doing since Gavaskar- facing the new ball and succeeding big time.The fact that he did so well, without ever opening in domestic cricket just goes to show the extraordinary talent of the man. Your argument giving Ganguly credit for what sehwag has done is so silly, I would'nt even want to argue about it. Yeah..since the *****..did jack shyte with the bat for 13 frickin tests , failing to even score a 50 , the only way you can give him some credit as captain is give him credit for what every upcoming performer does. Doesn't get more lame or ludicrious.. Why do you forget to give ganguly credit for "backing" chumps like Thiru Kumaran and Tinu Youahanan ? Or Parthiv Patel whos glorious exploits behind the stumps cost us a golden opportunity to beat Oz in Oz in 2003 ? Clearly his " backing" of Patel was also well documented. Whatever next !!!!!! won't be surprised now if you start giving Ganguly credit for the work that has been going on at the MRF pace academy and the NCA acedemy. LOL! Ever read what Ian chappell or Martin Crowe have had to say about Ganguly's captaincy ? Id value their opinion far more than any journalist. Failing to score a 50 in 13 long tests and then sucking upto strongman Pawar after losing his place in the side, Ganduly stood for all that was wrong in Indian cricket. Nice example he set for upcoming youngsters looking for a place in the side and for VVS who's place was always one flop series away from danger, while this shameless loser, went on and on.Had Ganguly represented any other country the shameless man would have long been kicked out for good. I mean just take the example of Michael Vaughan – a far more successful test captain than Ganguly. And as a bat was so good in his hay days, really Ganguly is not fit to clean Vaughans shoes. Din’t merit a place in the side asa batter and was not given infinite chances, neither did he suck upto some administrator to " fight" for his place.

When Ganguly performed with the bat and led, KKR ended up 6th narrowly missing out on the semis, always in with a chance right until the end. When he wasn't captain, they ended up dead last. See the connection?

Or did their performance suffer because of the controversy surrounding Buchanan's captaincy theory and the fake ipl blogger and primarily the unavailability of star performers for a major part of the tournament ? You knowingly argue on such obviously false points, makng it futile to engage in a honest cricket talk.

1. SRT averages 37 not 35. If 37 is lowly, what adjective do you have in mind for Veeru's glittering 30 average in the 4th innings? 2. Sehwag is equally pathetic in the 3rd innings of the game with a grand average of 30. From a total of 50 3rd and 4th innings innings, he has just 1 ton. Pathetic by any standards. 3. The triple century, unprecedented yada yada yada. You are singing once again from the same hymn sheet. Yes, he's a phenom but he is pathetic in the final stages of the test match. I asked you earlier if you would use the same excuses for SRT but you cleverly evaded that. 4. I am 'eternally grateful' to Sehwag for ending our overseas drought with the following stellar performances in matches India has won overseas

LOL...going by your lousy logic, Ponting who averages 53 in the fourth innings must be SRT's daddy and a tough as nails Steve Waugh who averages only 25 in the fourth innings must be some " pathetic softie". BTW why din't your hero SRT ever volunteer to open in tests, seeing how pathetic other openers before Sehwag were, afterall he did open the batting in ODIS , right ? :--D. You discredit him for a triple century , when he's scored not one but two , - no one else in our illustrious cricketing history even has one. Incidently in the same match against p@k where he single handedly maimed them with his 309 and set the tone for India's 1st test match victory in Pakistan, another Indian batter scored a 194*. While Veeru crossed the 300 with a 6, the " other" century maker took considerable limelight away from india's first ever test victory in P@kistan, by crying foul against the captain for not allowing him to complete a personal landmark. How fantastic ! Gambit, I am sure you enjoyed that SRT drama, for you seem to be a breed of Indian cricket followers who take more pride in an individuals selfish performances for personal landmarks rather than teams own performances.

Jaya bhai simply hates to chase. He averages a pathetic 28 in finals while chasing with just 3 50s. What a choker! :D

LOL...whatever next...Jayasuirya while chasing when the temperature is above 35 degrees..:haha:. Any amount of silly manipulation won't hide the fact that SRT choked for 10 long years in finals from 1999-2009. Against an overall average of 44 in this period, the average in finals is a pathetic 25, at a strike rate of 69. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/35320.html?class=2;filter=advanced;final_type=1;spanmax1=01+Jan+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings SRT's scores in finals read as: 40, 0, 69, 5, 0 , 17, 14, 0, 7 , 4 , 45, 8, 27, 74 . There's only one word for this brother, CHOKING. Compare this to Jayasuriya who's overall average last 10 years was 35, but average in finals is about 49 at a atrike rate of almost 90. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/player/49209.html?class=2;filter=advanced;final_type=1;spanmax1=03+Jan+2008;spanmin1=01+Jan+1999;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting;view=innings Jayasuriya's scores in finals read as: 26, 0, 22, 68, 189, 70 , 99 , 64 , 34, 19, 71 , 74 , 0 , 15 , 21 , 67 , 25 , 0 , 6 , 63 . Does'nt get clearer, brother. Ever wondered why are star studded batting line with all those BIG averages, kept losing finals after finals, while a Srilankan team ..whos star batsmen jayasuriya only averaged a lowly 33 , won so many last 10 years ? SRT had his chance in the finals 2003 WC, where he as expected succummed to his nemesis Mcgrath, yet again in single figures while a 38 year old Jayasuriya fought like the big hearted champion he is in the 2007 World cup right till the end facing the very same side and chasing as daunting a target. Anyways ..its great for Indian cricket that Dhoni has taken over. Lets count on glorious team achievements rather than meaningless individual records !

[rahuliverpool]

the " other" century maker took considerable limelight away from india's first ever test victory in P@kistan' date= by crying foul against the captain for not allowing him to complete a personal landmark. How fantastic !

yo, Patriot, enough of this crap. Get your facts right. Sachin NEVER NEVER cried foul against Dravid. He, like a gentleman, accepted the decision. I didn't want to meddle in your statsguru bullsh!t till now, but this is just too much.

[patriot]

yo' date=' Patriot, enough of this crap. Get your facts right. Sachin NEVER NEVER cried foul against Dravid. He, like a gentleman, accepted the decision. I didn't want to meddle in your statsguru bullsh!t till now, but this is just too much.[/quote'] Dude, if you can't handle the heat, step out of the the kitchen. Plain and simple. http://www.cricinfo.com/india/content/story/255244.html?wrappertype=print

Midway through the final session, Dravid declared, as you do when you're 675 for 5. What Indian captains don't tend to do, however, is declare when Sachin Tendulkar is on 194 not out. The matter became a full-fledged sensation when Tendulkar told a press conference he was disappointed not to get his double century.

Tendulkar, batting on 194 in the first Test against Pakistan, left no one in doubt that "he felt let down", Wright said in his just-published book John Wright's Indian Summers, disclosing for the first time the tense moments the Indian camp went through although publicly every effort had been made at that time to play down the controversy.

Wow...the indian team wins its very first test against the arch rivals in their backyard and someone crys foul on missing out on personal records.

"Dravid wanted less time in the field, but got caught a bit betwixt and between. At tea he told the batsmen he wanted 15 or 16 overs at the Pakistanis, and after tea a couple of messages went out. As I sat there watching the innings grind on, it crossed my mind that Tendulkar needed to get a move on," Wright continued. "A final message went out saying they had one more over. Then Yuvraj got run out going for a quick single and Dravid called them in."

Like I have said earlier, a section of the Indian fans for a long time have just been content at marvelling at individual records et al while the team suffered. Its attitude like this that needs ..to change ...and thankfully its changing.

[Holysmoke]

That quote is from the book "Indian Summers". Have you read the book? or at least the chapter, to understand the context of the quote, and what John says after that?

[patriot]

^^ The quote may be from Chacha Chaudhary , that doesn't change the fact the SRT expressed his dissapointed on not being allowed to achieve a personal milestone on a historical day for the Indian test team - and I certainly saw that press conference. Did you ?

[patriot]

What Indian captains don't tend to do, however, is declare when Sachin Tendulkar is on 194 not out.

This quote in ANY context...means that Sachin Tendulkar's personal milestones are of equal or greater importance than the team.

[patriot]

I have nothing against the great Sachin Tendulkar...who's played the MOST STELLAR role in Indian cricket for a long time. What I have an issue is his obsession with personal landmarks..at the cost of the team. Here is where i admire utterly selfless lion hearted cricketers the Jayasuriyas, Gilchrists, Dravids , Sehwags.

[rahuliverpool]

^^ The quote may be from Chacha Chaudhary ' date=' that doesn't change the fact the SRT expressed his dissapointed on not being allowed to achieve a personal milestone on a historical day for the Indian test team - and I certainly saw that press conference. Did you ?[/quote'] Patriot, there is a huge difference between being disappointed and crying foul. He is not entitled to even being disappointed when he could not score his first double in Pak and against Pak?? He took the decision in his stride and did not sulk on it. What more do you want? P.S - I can very well handle heat, but what I cannot handle is twisting statements just to prove your point

[patriot]

Patriot, there is a huge difference between being disappointed and crying foul. He is not entitled to even being disappointed when he could not score his first double in Pak and against Pak?? He took the decision in his stride and did not sulk on it. What more do you want?

He din't have to express his dissapointments in a live press conference - as this only causes rifts. I certainly din't watch the match or watch India in general for events like XYZ's first double ton in some place. I watch to see India win, and that should'nt be compromised for anyone.

[rahuliverpool]

He din't have to express his dissapointments in a live press conference - as this only causes rifts. I certainly din't watch the match or watch India in general for events like XYZ's first double ton in some place. I watch to see India win, and that should'nt be compromised for anyone.

Patriot, as I recall, when he entered the press conference, the first thing he was asked was "Are you disappointed?", to which he replied, "Yes, as I was unbeaten on 194". End of story. There is nothing earth shattering about that. Should he have said no and lied? You are making the phrase "expressing his disappointments" sound as if he bad mouthed/blamed/insulted/accused Dravid & Co. in the press conference. Just because his answer was yes doesn't mean that personal achievements mean more to him. Patriot, people like SRT and Dravid are extraordinary. Ordinary beings like us cannot fathom what goes on in their minds. You think this would create a rift in the team? Well, watch the last ball of Day 3 of that test and you'll know what I am talking about. Watch the way Sachin celebrated after he foxed Moin. Watch Dravid running to Sachin to congratulate him and you'll understand....well, hopefully. You seem to be accusing others of basing their opinion on what the media says. Sadly, Patriot, you are no different. All these foolish controversies about the declaration, personal achievements being more important to Sachin..blah blah blah are created by the media only and people like you believe it.

[patriot]

Patriot, as I recall, when he entered the press conference, the first thing he was asked was "Are you disappointed?", to which he replied, "Yes, as I was unbeaten on 194". End of story. There is nothing earth shattering about that. Should he have said no and lied? You are making the phrase "expressing his disappointments" sound as if he bad mouthed/blamed/insulted/accused Dravid & Co. in the press conference. Just because his answer was yes doesn't mean that personal achievements mean more to him. Patriot, people like SRT and Dravid are extraordinary. Ordinary beings like us cannot fathom what goes on in their minds. You think this would create a rift in the team? Well, watch the last ball of Day 3 of that test and you'll know what I am talking about. Watch the way Sachin celebrated after he foxed Moin. Watch Dravid running to Sachin to congratulate him and you'll understand....well, hopefully. You seem to be accusing others of basing their opinion on what the media says. Sadly, Patriot, you are no different. All these foolish controversies about the declaration, personal achievements being more important to Sachin..blah blah blah are created by the media only and people like you believe it.

I saw the shrug and dissapointment writ all over SRT's face. I clearly remember his shockingly dissapointing body language as he was walking back to the pavilion when Dravid declared. Even the commentators talked about this as the declaration was made. You are free to live in denial mode. The fact that you say its ok to express dissapointment in a live press conference when one could easily avoid the question ( or say that he was more concerned about India pulling off its first win) as sportsmen usually do - just goes to show that you live in a dream world of utter denial. I am probably much more passionate about Indian cricket than you will ever be, because you seem to be more passionate about individual cricketers ( who can do no wrong in your eyes) rather than team India. And please avoid caustic personal remarks on difference of opinions. If you are not mature enough to understand that this a FORUM- where there will be differences of opinion - that don't bother posting on this thread.Else post only on those boards where you agree with what everyone has to say and everything is lovey dovey.

[rahuliverpool]

I saw the shrug and dissapointment writ all over SRT's face. I clearly remember his shockingly dissapointing body language as he was walking back to the pavilion when Dravid declared. Even the commentators talked about this as the declaration was made. You are free to live in denial mode. The fact that you say its ok to express dissapointment in a live press conference when one could easily avoid the question ( or say that he was more concerned about India pulling off its first win) as sportsmen usually do - just goes to show that you live in a dream world of utter denial. I am probably much more passionate about Indian cricket than you will ever be, because you seem to be more passionate about individual cricketers ( who can do no wrong in your eyes) rather than team India. And please avoid caustic personal remarks on difference of opinions. If you are not mature enough to understand that this a FORUM- where there will be differences of opinion - that don't bother posting on this thread.Else post only on those boards where you agree with what everyone has to say and everything is lovey dovey.

You saw disappointment on his face means that he cried foul! Dude, he's not a robot, the guy's got emotions too. He doesn't say anything and he's not allowed to even have disappointment on his face? I am not living in a world of denial, my friend. It seems that you are living in a world where your sports heroes should be stone hearted and devoid of feelings. BTW, I have noticed a thing. In most of your posts you keep saying that you're a more passionate Indian cricket fan. None of us need to say that out loud. We are here, on this forum, just because of that very reason. In your case though, after a few statements, you end up saying that very thing. :haha: There was just as many personal remarks in my posts as there were in yours. Read some of your previous posts and you'll see some nice personal statements. If you won't get your facts right and write rubbish like "personal achievements mean more to SRT", then I will post. I suggest that if you have such baseless statements to make, please become a reporter on some news channel and you'll do a pretty good job. As you said, this is a forum, if you do not agree with my opinion, fair enough.

[Gambit]

Bade saheb, you are so full of it. The fact that you don't even understand, the massive difference between opening in tests and opening in onedayers goes to show that this argument is becoming increasingly futile. As I have writen in the earlier post we tried permutations and combinations with like a 12 makeshift TEST openers through the 90's and the start of Ganguly's captainship. Even while he captained we experimented with maharathis like Rahul Dravid. VVS another opener experiment failed.Deep Dasgupta was also tried, under Ganguly , he too failed. Then we tried Sehwag who did what , no one in Indian cricket was willing or capable of doing since Gavaskar- facing the new ball and succeeding big time.The fact that he did so well, without ever opening in domestic cricket just goes to show the extraordinary talent of the man. Your argument giving Ganguly credit for what sehwag has done is so silly, I would'nt even want to argue about it. Yeah..since the *****..did jack shyte with the bat for 13 frickin tests , failing to even score a 50 , the only way you can give him some credit as captain is give him credit for what every upcoming performer does. Doesn't get more lame or ludicrious..

Round and round the mulberry bush patriot bhai goes. Some facts for you - 1. Laxman NEVER opened under Ganguly. Dravid in only 1 test. :hysterical: 2. Sigh, yeh bhi padh lo bhai -

For someone who started off as a middle-order batsman, eleven hundreds as an opener is not bad? Not at all, but it's all thanks to Sourav Ganguly, who gave me the opportunity first in England in 2002. I wasn't keen to open because I had a chat with Laxman and the other openers. They all said it is not easy for a middle-order batsman to become an opener. So I decided to try and open for two Tests. If I click then I will continue, if not, then I will be back in the middle-order, I had thought. Captain Ganguly and John Wright (then coach) gave me the confidence. They said, 'Just play four innings. If you fail then you come back to the middle-order.'

http://tinyurl.com/n93ef5 Patti utaro vats.

Why do you forget to give ganguly credit for "backing" chumps like Thiru Kumaran and Tinu Youahanan ? Or Parthiv Patel whos glorious exploits behind the stumps cost us a golden opportunity to beat Oz in Oz in 2003 ? Clearly his " backing" of Patel was also well documented.

LULZ! Thiru never played a test under Ganguly and Tinu just 3. A 3 test run is hardly 'backing' someone. Tinu had a good debut at Mohali where he bowled well.As since it's apparent you did not follow cricket, Yohannan had a great reputation at the first class level and was touted to be a good potential. AND he played his first test only because Srinath and Prasad were injured. Parthiv initially did very well, playing his part saving us the Nottingham test, which was incidentally his debut. He was chosen because he was supposed to the best wk/bat in the country. Played very good knocks against OZ and Pakistan.

Ever read what Ian chappell or Martin Crowe have had to say about Ganguly's captaincy ? Id value their opinion far more than any journalist. Failing to score a 50 in 13 long tests and then sucking upto strongman Pawar after losing his place in the side, Ganduly stood for all that was wrong in Indian cricket. Nice example he set for upcoming youngsters looking for a place in the side and for VVS who's place was always one flop series away from danger, while this shameless loser, went on and on.Had Ganguly represented any other country the shameless man would have long been kicked out for good. I mean just take the example of Michael Vaughan – a far more successful test captain than Ganguly. And as a bat was so good in his hay days, really Ganguly is not fit to clean Vaughans shoes. Din’t merit a place in the side asa batter and was not given infinite chances, neither did he suck upto some administrator to " fight" for his place.

I think you're in the wrong place if you think you can abuse legendary Indian Cricketers like that. I'm sorry!! :hysterical: You value Martin Crowe's opinion more than any journalist? :D You must be the third person, after Crowe and his wife, to say that. And I'm sure you will value his opinion more over established writers such as Peter Roebuck and Dileep Premachandran given your hate for Ganguly. :winky: Maybe you loved this piece? :D Sehwag is the worst captain ever:Crowe So you do agree that Sehwag is the worst captain India has ever had? It's gotta be true since the legendary Pulitzer prize winning journalist Sir Martin Crowe said it. :hysterical:

LOL...going by your lousy logic, Ponting who averages 53 in the fourth innings must be SRT's daddy and a tough as nails Steve Waugh who averages only 25 in the fourth innings must be some " pathetic softie". BTW why din't your hero SRT ever volunteer to open in tests, seeing how pathetic other openers before Sehwag were, afterall he did open the batting in ODIS , right ? .

LOL! My lousy logic. You were the one going on about choking and this and that. When I pointed out Sehwag's dismal 3rd+4th innings performance, you brushed it aside as if it were nothing. Here is what happened - 1. You complained about Freddie's hype. 2. I showed you he's been a good performer in the last 50 tests. 3. You said who cares about longevity, he's sucked in the last 4 years. 4. I asked you if you would agree about Sehwag being below par between May 2005 and Jan 2008. 5. Your response was to start blabbering about his 50+ avg and triples etc basically ending up looking like a hypocrite because you dismissed Freddie's performance over 50 tests and only focussed on 4 years but just didn't want to talk about Sehwag's 3 years but instead look at this entire career. :cantstop: 6. You did the same with SRT in finals. Instead of focussing on his glittering career record in finals, you focussed your attention between 1999 and 2004(yes..the last final SRT played in before 2008 VB series was in 2004 :winky:) So much for 9 years :hysterical:

You discredit him for a triple century , when he's scored not one but two , - no one else in our illustrious cricketing history even has one. Incidently in the same match against p@k where he single handedly maimed them with his 309 and set the tone for India's 1st test match victory in Pakistan, another Indian batter scored a 194*. While Veeru crossed the 300 with a 6, the " other" century maker took considerable limelight away from india's first ever test victory in P@kistan, by crying foul against the captain for not allowing him to complete a personal landmark. How fantastic !

When did I ever discredit him for a 300? You must be seeing things. Not hard to imagine given the things you've passed off as 'facts'. :D

Gambit, I am sure you enjoyed that SRT drama, for you seem to be a breed of Indian cricket followers who take more pride in an individuals selfish performances for personal landmarks rather than teams own performances.

You seem to be among a breed of individuals who salute the rising sun and ditch falling stars. Tomorrow if Sehwag fails, people like you will be the first to distance themselves from him. You also come across as very parochial and condescending which is evident in the post where you generalised Bengalis as being very gullible. Speaking of individual landmarks, it's you not me who's gone on and on about 50+ avg, triple 100s etc

LOL...whatever next...Jayasuirya while chasing when the temperature is above 35 degrees...

Oh my god!! You have surpassed yourself. When I showed that your Lankan hero was piss poor while chasing in finals ('Big Day' performer indeed :D), you conveniently overlooked it. Finals are all about pressure. There is no greater pressure than chasing in finals. That is something everyone agrees with. I bet you had the numbers been reversed you would have screeched the house down lambasting SRT. Sachin Tendulkar is Jayasuriya's baap not only in finals but also when chasing in finals. The Lankan baldy is a nervous pottering old geriatric when he finds that his team will not be batting first and the most glaring evidence of that is the FACT that his last matchwinning 50 in a final while chasing came in 1997!! Everyone can see that Jayasuriya, like Sehwag is an utter and sheer failure when chasing in finals. Yes, your second favourite taklu Veeru averages a pathetic 30. And the stunning riposte I provided when you mentioned Kenya and Zim obviously has you reeling as you haven't even acknowledged that Sachin > Jaya even when the minnows aren't taken into account. :desiwoman:

Ever wondered why are star studded batting line with all those BIG averages, kept losing finals after finals, while a Srilankan team ..whos star batsmen jayasuriya only averaged a lowly 33 , won so many last 10 years ?

Only simple folk need to 'wonder'. Sanath isn't the only reason. Lanka also won because of Murali and Vaas. FYI they had Aravinda, Jaya, Sanga in addition to your takla hero. Murali averages a stunning 16 in finals.

SRT had his chance in the finals 2003 WC, where he as expected succummed to his nemesis Mcgrath, yet again in single figures while a 38 year old Jayasuriya fought like the big hearted champion he is in the 2007 World cup right till the end facing the very same side and chasing as daunting a target.

How much did the big hearted big day (:hysterical:) performer make in the 1996 final while chasing? Why did the big hearted performer not win Lanka the second final? And you must think SRT is a god if you expected him to lead us to victory after Australia racked up 360! BTW why didn't Veeru take us to victory? :winky:

[Max_Cady]

LOL Introducing patriot, the new age numbnut Indian cricket enthusiast who thinks he knows everything b/c he has loads of time to kill on statsguru . **** me, where do these ppl come from

[King Tendulkar]

So superman Freddie in this series has 1 fifty and taken 7 wickets at 48.57 each. What an amazing super human performance.