Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

[King]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Sooda, do you appreciate the following picture. Give me one good reason why are they doing this in the open? Do they lack space in their hotel room or in the dressing room? This is all gimmicks to spread religion. When this starts to happen, sports is diluted and it's starting to take a new turn. That definitely is not a good turn.

[Rahul]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

So young players were forced. I don't know how much forcing there was, or what the nature of this 'forcing' was. None of us do. Thats really what it depends on I think. Saying prayers is a necessity and yes it is more important than work etc...that much must be imparted on every muslim, and maybe that was the effort being made by the more religious of the Pak lot. Ultimately though that urge has to come from within the person and not be forced upon them- so from that P.O View its not ideal no. Heres the weird thing though- 4 years ago the Pak team were on paper as good as they are now if not better. They could, quite realistically, have lost to Ireland say in the 03 WC. Every non Pakistani would have said ' thats just super-inconsistent Pak being them selves' ( The Pakistanis of course, would have said it was fixed) Now however they lose and religion or 'over religious zeal' becomes an easy scapegoat...when essentially it is the same Pak team with that same tendency to slip from the sublime to the ridiculous with great ease.

my friend, i think u completely missed the point. take it easy, R

[beetle]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Ravi......i think there are brownie points for spreading and converting people ....(i think ...that's what i have got from my visits to some forums)

[King]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team I'm sure you should be right, there is no other option to believe in really. Firstly Inzi starting with the verse and thanking his god in English. That sure is one way to publicize. Say like "Just do it" or a "Coke". More you see it more you get used to it. No publicity is bad publicity as we know it. Then the prayers out in the open on a cricket ground :shrug: What should a non religious person make out of this? Nothing but for publicity. There is nothing religious about praying in a cricket ground, it is just to publicize the religion.

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team R bhai, welcome to the higher mentality. Everything is absolutely superb as long as it's for the true religion. And as I said many times before, having higher education doesn't really matter to use logic and common sense when it comes to that religion particularly.

[The Outsider]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Heres the thing. Non Muslims may not appreciate this. In fact WILL not. But praying is an ESSENTIAL part of our faith. The prayer in the morning is a part of this. The fact the the less religious guys in the Pak team were being coaxed to do so is a good thing and FAR FAR more important than anything they will or ever have done on a cricket pitch.

Who are you or any other Muslim to pass judgements on whats good or whats not? From the little that I know of Islam, its a religion of free will and Allah is the sole judge. Pardon me, but it seems you dont know your religion too well it seems given the alacrity you are passing judgements with. Really expected much better from you, Sooda.

Again. Prayers are an essential part of the faith. They're not going to give it up just for the sake of Kaneria and Bob. It really is not a big deal those two can wait (it would not usually be for as long as 20 mins) - we do not know how Kaneria feels about it all (despite what dsr suggests) but frankly if If they don't like it- tough. Thats what the Pak players would have thought- quite rightly

And thats not pressure? Are you pretending to be naive here? You are made to alter whatever you are doing atleast 5 times a day for 20 minutes because your colleagues belong to a different religion and its not pressure to join them? Really!!!

So what? It just means that Pakistan will not play cricket for that month. Big deal.

Then they should forfeit the fixtures. 9 other international teams are not going to keep on revolving their playing schedule every year to accomodate Ramazan.

Cant defend things they might have done. I only know of Akhtar and Asif- and those two are dimwits...not aware abusing etc...

Afridi, the pitch dancer. Inzamam, the Razzaq abuser. Inzamam, the drugs coverup specialist. Younis Khan and Afridi, the shower fighters.........................

[yoda]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team I don't know what part of "They represent the ISLAMIC republic of Pakistan" you guys don't understand. I say they are representing their fans very well.

[CC1981]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Heres the thing. Non Muslims may not appreciate this. In fact WILL not. But praying is an ESSENTIAL part of our faith.

Do you even know WHY you are to pray five times a day ? It is not that your Allah is an insecure git that needs to be reminded five times a day that people love it. Nor is your Allah some sort of extra-dimensional being sapping energy from you through your worship. You are to pray five times a day so that five times a day you are to realize how small and insignificant you are in front of the allmighty. Ie, the basic objective/intent was to instill humility in the devotees. Praying smack in the middle of a sports stadium smacks of arrogance, not humility. There is nothing humble about flaunting your faith.

Again. Prayers are an essential part of the faith. They're not going to give it up just for the sake of Kaneria and Bob. It really is not a big deal those two can wait (it would not usually be for as long as 20 mins) - we do not know how Kaneria feels about it all (despite what dsr suggests) but frankly if If they don't like it- tough. Thats what the Pak players would have thought- quite rightly

I've bolded the part i have an issue with. You seem to be making this a majority vs minority issue where majority is right. I realize that the concept of representational democracy is new to our world and thus promotes confusion but nowhere does democracy indicate that it is right by default. What democray is, is representing the wishes of the majority public. Those wishes could be good or bad (eg: Hitler was elected leader!). I am sorry but individualism has to be respected as well. Besides, how come this sentiment is not reciprocated in situations where muslims are the minorty ? Why cant the muslims adopt a similar ' we dont like it- tough' attitude when they are the minority in the west and want the majority to dance according to their tune (sharia) ?? How would you, a muslim, feel if you were asked to suspend 20 min of your life five times a day, everyday, so that your largely hindu 'infidel' teammates go pray to Jagannath or something ?

[Anakin]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Welcome back CC :wtg: Master yoda, what about the non-pak fans who wholeheartedly support that kind of behavior

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Fack me CC. A sensible post from you. Are you really CC? Only kidding :hmph:

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Hey CC , Welcome back ! :wtg: And good sensible posts ! :wtg:

[yoda]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Master yoda, what about the non-pak fans who wholeheartedly support that kind of behavior

Sooda is talking as a Muslim as Islam is the topic of conversation here.

[kumble_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team Jesus, What next from Sooda, growing beard is FAR FAR more important than anything they do on the cricket field ! :hic: :hic:

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Sooda, do you appreciate the following picture. Give me one good reason why are they doing this in the open? Do they lack space in their hotel room or in the dressing room? This is all gimmicks to spread religion. When this starts to happen, sports is diluted and it's starting to take a new turn. That definitely is not a good turn.

It's for extraa shubab :lmao: Btw look at Waqar he seems to be in some kind of pensive mood, some extra-spiritual deep thought I guess. Poor guy had to fall in line with Inzi's dictate

[Guest dada_rocks]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Ravi......i think there are brownie points for spreading and converting people ....(i think ...that's what i have got from my visits to some forums)

Not some it's huge.. u can be rapist murderer cheat thug but if u manage to increase the herd count by one nothing can come between u and heavenly abode .

[Predator_05]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team The non-conformists would undoubtedly have been ostracized had they not fallen in line with the Islamists. Why else would a group of smug players like the Pakistanis suddenly become so pious. Besides, under Wasim they were a bunch of pot-smoking party-goers without any moral principles but they still won a hell of a lot more trophies.

[King Tendulkar]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

Saying prayers is a necessity and yes it is more important than work etc...that much must be imparted on every muslim, and maybe that was the effort being made by the more religious of the Pak lot.

Hardly a suprise to me these sentiments. This is typical of 99% of muslims and there mindset. Next time you hear muslims blaming discrimination about inequalities in their earnings/education in India, Uk and other countries. Remeber these words, prayers more important then work :shrug:

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team CC, Look at the pic, the stadium is totally empty with only one or two ball boys around! In fact i would say that there will be more people watching them in the hotel than in an empty stadium!

The non-conformists would undoubtedly have been ostracized had they not fallen in line with the Islamists. Why else would a group of smug players like the Pakistanis suddenly become so pious. Besides' date=' under Wasim they were a bunch of pot-smoking party-goers without any moral principles but they still won a hell of a lot more trophies.[/quote'] Back then we had better players! Now we don't have an opener as good as Saeed, Shoaib never shows up, we don't have a bowler who is as good as Wasim AKram plus Wasim was a natural leader while Inzi was anything but!

[veer]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team brain-washing machine industry is getting stronger.. :shrug:

[MundaPakistani]

Re: Woolmer complained about OTT Islam in team

4 years ago the Pak team were on paper as good as they are now if not better. They could, quite realistically, have lost to Ireland say in the 03 WC. Every non Pakistani would have said ' thats just super-inconsistent Pak being them selves' ( The Pakistanis of course, would have said it was fixed) Now however they lose and religion or 'over religious zeal' becomes an easy scapegoat...when essentially it is the same Pak team with that same tendency to slip from the sublime to the ridiculous with great ease.

I wonder how many people would have blamed that loss on all the clubbing and pubing? Just like people are coming up with statements such as the young players are being forced to pray i can here argue that the young players of the 90s were influenced to go to night club and smoke then how come media didn't portray that as something negative? For the youngsters growing up in PAK i would rather have their "heroes" to be pious Muslims than to be pot smoking clubbers and pubbers! So from that stand point i am really glad that unlike the teams of the yesteryears this team has a soul to which the youngsters could look up to!