Harmeet Singh II : The 17 years old left arm spinner from Mumbai

[Brainfade]

My "theory" is that it has to do with a couple of factors - the difficulty in controlling wrist spin and the abundance of right handed batsmen at the amateur level. Any wrist spinner is bound to deliver his share of long hops and full tosses because it's such a difficult delivery to control and the abundance of right hand batsmen just makes it worse for him. A right arm wrist spinner will still be at an advantage given that even if he goes for runs' date=' he'll pick up wickets. A left arm spinner will be turning into the batsman - always easier to play. Right arm finger spinners can get away with accuracy, but left arm wrist spinner have no hiding place.[/quote'] Thanks - sounds logical. Have any of these guys made it to the highest level? What about that Saffie with a funny action - Adams?

[vvvslaxman]

I think, I'm generally very excited to see a young talent. But this bunch doesn't enthuse me much. I'll be glad to be proved wrong by them though.

You will be proved wrong. Because your assessment is flawed . These guys bowled on surfaces where Murali was depending on cheap wickets. There was nothing in it for anyone. How do we know what kind of role Ojha was given. In the 2nd Test his role was to tie up one end. In the third test he started flighting and beating the right handers consistently. We only remember batsmen hitting bowlers . We don't remember how he induced edges or false strokes. How many edges eluded slips off Ojha.

[The Outsider]

Thanks - sounds logical. Have any of these guys made it to the highest level? What about that Saffie with a funny action - Adams?

Adams and Hogg are ones from recent times. Hogg was quite good in ODIs, in fact. Sobers could bowl good chinaman from what I've read. There were a couple in the pre war era, but I can't recall their names.

[ViruRulez]

Left arm Jadeja, Ojha part time Yuvi Offie Harbhajan, Powar Leggie Chawla, Mishra Fringe players Ashwin (offie) Monish Parmer (offie) New faces I thought Ashwin is a fast bowler. Never seen him bowl. Is he not the same Ashwin who was selected in the T20 squad. I have never seen him bowl but I thought he was a pacer and not a spinner. Is Ashwin a spinner :hmmm: Srinivas (left arm)

[vvvslaxman]

Bevan used to bowl. But not very effective. My theory is just probability. In Cricket Right > Left - > means more not better Offie >> Leggie - So left arm chinaman is even more rare. Off spin can be bowled by anyone. It has the easiest action possible. Richards, Hooper, Aravinda, Mark Waugh they are all offies. Very easy to bowl. You need great control for leg spin.

[vvvslaxman]

yes Ashwin is an off spinner.

[ViruRulez]

yes Ashwin is an off spinner.

so who is our future pace prospect except Tyagi .. I am now really getting pissed off with BCCI not creating future fast bowlers ... I thought Ashwin and Tyagi are our two prospects for the future.. I dont watch domestic cricket but just read the Ranji scorecards on Cricinfo .. so who all are our fast bowling prospect for the future except Tyagi .. I am not worried about our pool of spinners but am more worried about the future pace attack

[vvvslaxman]

so who is our future pace prospect except Tyagi .. I am now really getting pissed off with BCCI not creating future fast bowlers ... I thought Ashwin and Tyagi are our two prospects for the future.. I dont watch domestic cricket but just read the Ranji scorecards on Cricinfo .. so who all are our fast bowling prospect for the future except Tyagi .. I am not worried about our pool of spinners but am more worried about the future pace attack

Fast bowler let me think You are not going to like it Vinay Kumar, Sangwan, Bhuvanesawar Kumar, Gony, D Kulkarni....et al. But if you go off-beaten path we can get someone like Kamran Khan. Don't know about his progress. But Praveen Kumar is unfairly sidelined for Tests. When Druggie Asif can bowl at 125 k and get wickets why not Praveen Kumar who can swing the ball both ways. Zaheer Sree Ishant Praveen would form a good attack. I have no hopes for Munna Bhai who has no variations. Nehra is hopeless in Tests. If Irfan and RP singh shows willingness to improve they can provide interesting options.

[ananthd]

What? Good SLA's can be very difficult to handle especially if they have a decent arm ball and control and they can be more deceptive than an offie.... We've been spoilt by the mediocrity that is modern SLA's such as Murali Kartik...... You just have to turn the clock back about 25 years to see India had two world class ones: Bishen Bedi & Dilip Doshi.... Whatever that may be, kudos to the kid.... It's very rare that a 16 year old can run rings around a champion team like Mumbai, especially after a grizzled veteran like Jaffer was past his ton; Mumbai also had an SLA Iqbal Abdulla who did jack and apparently the pitch was not the reason since Vijay subsequently tonked a 150 in only 120 balls.... I hope the kid keeps his head and keeps working on his game; India needs a good SLA.....

[vvvslaxman]

We've been spoilt by the mediocrity that is modern SLA's such as Murali Kartik...... ..

:hysterical: Modern mediocrities.. I agree Dilip Doshi was a fanastic spinner. Terrific variations he got.

[ludhianvi]

What the Mumbai coach, Amre, had to say of him :

Special Talent Both Jaffer and coach Praveen Amre agreed on keeping him away from the short and the shortest form of the game. Jaffer said, “Mumbai cricket needs to take care of him. I hope the T20 and one day cricket doesn’t harm him too much. Its our duty to look after him.” Amre was more empathic when he said, “He should be reserved for longer version of the game. He is very young, we don't want to take a chance because after a long time we have got a genuine orthodox left arm spinner. As a coach I see talent in him. We come across talented batsman or fast bowler but rarely a left arm spinner who has turn and bounce. We can recommend it to the Cricket Improvement Committee and leave it to higher authorities to take the final call.”

Havent seen him play yet... should get an opportunity in the u19 WC soon. But his forte seems to lie in the longer version of the game from what Amre had to say.

[Indianfan_Hyd]

Venkatapathy Muscles Rajooo

[Indianfan_Hyd]

Sunil Joshi, that 6/12 smthn against South Africa...

[kabira]

Vinoo Mankad

[The Outsider]

Look, I am not saying it's impossible for a left arm spinner to be successful - there are bound to be exceptions for sure. I can never stop admiring Mankad, for example and always feature him in my all time Indian XI. But, I guess you guys are completely ignoring the kind of left arm bowlers that are coming out these days. Even the really good one in world cricket, Vettori, is a decent test bowler. When was the last time world cricket saw a left arm spinner coming close to a destructive or great status? It's extremely difficult on the kind of pitches that are being produced. Look at the trajectory Ojha was bowling in the recent test series or Murali Karthik? It's not always the bowlers fault. Too much limited overs cricket has all but finished off attacking left arm spinners from the game.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Well done to the guy' date=' but let's face it left arm spinners are useless. They'll never be world beaters at the international level. We should find more wrist spinners - the only kind of spinners worth keeping in a side.[/quote'] I beg to differ.....a good spinner will be good......left arm spinners have been very good left arm spinners...bedi,underwood,another englishman i cant recall and now vettori.they are a rarity because number one lesser left arm people in world are less. another reason is that there arent many variations in left arm spin most of them rely on speed variation.a bedi with his legendary accuracy and his ability to control the amount of spin on the ball was different.Vettori has a great armball.I dont understand why dont any left arm spinners try to bowl the doosra,as it is left arm off spin doosra should come in handy. About chinaman well i guess off spinners turn it in as well and accuracy will always be bowler specific.A good chinaman will be extremely good,they are the rarest breed in cricket and will be hard to play.In addition their variations will be difficult to play and pick up.Remember Hogg bowling those flippers and googlies.

[The Outsider]

^ Come one, if all India can now hope to produce is a Vettori then I'd rather we not have spinners! My point is finger spinners are very limited due to the patta wickets in international cricket anyways, at least off spinners can hope to dry up the runs by darting it in at the pads. Left arm spinners have very limited utility in today's test cricket. Given a finger and wrist spinner of similar ability, I'll pick pick the wrist spinner in a heartbeat.

[The Outsider]

Just watch the difference wrist spin makes by how Kaneria is bowling as opposed to Vettori.

[The Dark Horse]

so who is our future pace prospect except Tyagi .. I am now really getting pissed off with BCCI not creating future fast bowlers ... I thought Ashwin and Tyagi are our two prospects for the future.. I dont watch domestic cricket but just read the Ranji scorecards on Cricinfo .. so who all are our fast bowling prospect for the future except Tyagi .. I am not worried about our pool of spinners but am more worried about the future pace attack

Whats the use of having future prospects?- You have to try them when there is a chance. Tyagi has been in good form and bowls well, even Dhoni knows that. He entirely demolished the India Blue in the challengers(Dhoni's team). But still he never plays him, warming the bench for a couple of series. They consider T20s as warm up, but still MSD thinks its better if he warms the benches.:giggle: Ashok Dinda, though I accept is a nippy bowler has done nothing spectacular-but gets a game.

[ViruRulez]

Fast bowler let me think You are not going to like it Vinay Kumar, Sangwan, Bhuvanesawar Kumar, Gony, D Kulkarni....et al. But if you go off-beaten path we can get someone like Kamran Khan. Don't know about his progress. But Praveen Kumar is unfairly sidelined for Tests. When Druggie Asif can bowl at 125 k and get wickets why not Praveen Kumar who can swing the ball both ways. Zaheer Sree Ishant Praveen would form a good attack. I have no hopes for Munna Bhai who has no variations. Nehra is hopeless in Tests. If Irfan and RP singh shows willingness to improve they can provide interesting options.

Zaheer, Sree, Ishant and PK are our present. I am not saying about our present. I am more worried about our future bowlers. We already repent on our present set of bowlers saying they are not the class that we would have liked as a no.1 team. But if you compare the upcoming bowlers then it is even more worrying. Tyagi seems to be the only proper prospect for the future he does not even bowl at 140 speed at this stage when he is fresh and young. And he was not looking that devastating in IPL though tests and ODIs are quite different from IPL and hence cannot judge from the same. Other prospects for the future are Vinay Kumar, Sangwan, Bhuvanesawar Kumar, Gony, D Kulkarni as you mentioned. But out of these only Vinay Kumar, Sangwan and Gony seems to be somewhat speedy but Sangwan and Gony have proved to be inconsistent even at domestic level. So, I am not sure how effective they would be at international level. Vinay Kumar seems to be the only other hope except Tyagi whom we can expect to do good. But still these bowlers are not even comparable to our present set of bowlers. That is the reason I am more worried. Even our best prospect Tyagi does not seem to be anywhere of the class of Sree or Zak. So, I am still quite worried about BCCI not concentrating on increasing the pool of future fast bowlers. We have got enough quality batsmen for the future but if you compare the fast bowling prospects for the future then it is nowhere near the batting prospects. If we want to remain dominant like Aus in the no.1 position in the future then we need to have a pool of fast bowlers in the future like Aus. And that is what BCCI is not concentrating. Even Ravi Shastri was saying the same thing in the 2nd test match. We have been producing batting backups and future prospects but in case of fast bowling we are just letting it go completely. Hope BCCI invests money and produces quality fast bowlers for the future.

Whats the use of having future prospects?- You have to try them when there is a chance. Tyagi has been in good form and bowls well, even Dhoni knows that. He entirely demolished the India Blue in the challengers(Dhoni's team). But still he never plays him, warming the bench for a couple of series. They consider T20s as warm up, but still MSD thinks its better if he warms the benches.:giggle: Ashok Dinda, though I accept is a nippy bowler has done nothing spectacular-but gets a game.

Dinda did not seem to be world class to me. Tyagi is good but maybe Dhoni is worried about him being destroyed like Ishant by being played too early. Not sure of the reason. But he might ultimately get the break after Sree's swine flu attack.