Is Yuvraj a better batsman than VVS Laxman?

[Karan114]

Apparently many do and which is why you see 20x more people coming out to watch ODI instead of Test matches.

So transparent in your opinion who is the better batsman - VVS who failed at ODIs but is a champion in Tests or Yuvraj who is brilliant in ODIs but awful in Tests? As for you being paki, well I had no reason to wonder, before you started saying that limited overs is more important than Tests and you keep saying it so my suspicions are deepening!

[Jersey #10]

So transparent in your opinion who is the better batsman - VVS who failed at ODIs but is a champion in Tests or Yuvraj who is brilliant in ODIs but awful in Tests? As for you being paki, well I had no reason to wonder, before you started saying that limited overs is more important than Tests and you keep saying it so my suspicions are deepening!

Yuvraj! Obviously. One who can play according to the situation is better than the one who can only succeed in particular situations (that's if you agree that Cricket is a team game). Yuvi can pace his innings extremely well in all three formats while keeping similar averages in all three formats. His averages are only increasing with time which is a good sign. Yuvi can pace his innings very well according to the situation which is why I would rank him well above VVS any day :finger: UV - consistent regardless of the format Test - SR - 58.56, Avg - 37.12 :two_thumbs_up: ODI - SR - 89.19, Avg - 37.44 :two_thumbs_up: T20 - SR - 160.85, Avg - 34.58 :two_thumbs_up: Lax - Can only play in particular situations Test - SR - 48.88, Avg - 45.39 :two_thumbs_up: ODI - SR - 71.23, Avg - 30.76 :lol::lol: T20 - :fail: I am a Paki? When some one proves you wrong, you go on to call him a paki? pathetic loser

[Karan114]

Dude if you think Yuvi is a better batsman than VVS because he is better ODI/T20 player than I have nothing to say.

I am a Paki? When some one proves you wrong, you go on to call him a paki? pathetic loser

Naah man, not someone proves me wrong, just someone who lays so much store on limited overs game that after such a brilliant Test victory you point out that we lost an ODI series. Pakis also rate ODI/T20 over Test for obvious reason

[graphic23]

Just to be clear as to why Yuvraj is clearly ahead of Laxman: Test record:

Grouping           	Span  	      Mat  	Inns  NO  	Runs  HS  	Ave  	         BF  	SR  	      100  	50  	0
v Australia  	2004-2008  	4  	8  	1  	64  	27  	9.14  	185  	34.59  	0  	0  	2  
v West Indies  	2006-2006  	4  	7  	1  	104  	39  	17.33  	275  	37.81  	0  	0  	1  	
v Zimbabwe  	2005-2005  	2  	2  	0  	37  	25  	18.50  	90  	41.11  	0  	0  	0  	
v New Zealand  	2003-2009  	4  	7  	2  	150  	54*  	30.00  	288  	52.08  	0  	1  	1
v England  	        2006-2008  	4  	7  	1  	276  	86  	46.00  	461  	59.86  	0  	2  	0  
v Pakistan  	2004-2007  	7  	9  	0  	572  	169  	63.55  	787  	72.68  	3  	1  	0
v South Africa  	2008-2008  	1  	1  	0  	32  	32  	32.00  	57  	56.14  	0  	0  	0
v Sri Lanka  	2005-2009  	4  	6  	1  	287  	77*  	57.40  	456  	62.93  	0  	4  	2

Now you might be wondering whats so great about this record? Well, thats cause we havent looked at his performances abroad:

in Australia  	2007-2008  	2  	4  	0  	17  	12  	4.25  	48  	35.41  	0  	0  	2
in New Zealand  	2009-2009  	3  	5  	1  	125  	54*  	31.25  	182  	68.68  	0  	1  	1  	
in Pakistan  	2004-2006  	6  	7  	0  	401  	122  	57.28  	572  	70.10  	2  	1  	0
in Africa  	        2005-2005  	2  	2  	0  	37  	25  	18.50  	90  	41.11  	0  	0  	0 

VVS would struggle to match this consistent performance over all conditions and situations. Notice the particularly high average of 4.15 vs. Australia in Australia - that is one for the legends. Take a look at this slow poke VVS' performance against these countries (particularly the Australian attack that consisted of McGrath (who, btw was slower than Brett Lee - which is a clear indication that he was easier to play), Warne (Yuvraj would have slog swept him all the time), Gillespie (a nobody, to be honest. Yuvraj doesn't deserve to play against this guy), etc.)

v Australia  1998-2008  	        24  	44  	4  	2204  281          55.10  	4008  	54.99  	6  	10  	2
v England  	2001-2008  	        13  	20  	3  	584  	75  	        34.35  	1317  	44.34  	0  	4  	2
v New Zealand  	2002-2009  	7  	13  	3  	601  	124*  	60.10  	1276  	47.10  	2  	4  	2
v Pakistan  	1999-2007  	15  	25  	7  	775  	112*  	43.05  	1532  	50.58  	1  	6  	2
v South Africa  	1996-2008  	15  	24  	3  	637  	89  	        30.33  	1413  	45.08  	0  	5  	1  	
v Sri Lanka  	1999-2009  	9  	16  	2  	559  	104  	        39.92  	1261  	44.32  	1  	5  	1
v West Indies  	1997-2006  	16  	25  	3  	1174  154*  	53.36  	2736  	42.90  	3  	7  	2

Now to look at his abroad stats (which are much more pathetic, particularly vs. Australia):

in Australia  	1999-2008  	11  	21  	1  	1081  	178  	54.05  	1974  	54.76  	4  	3  	1
in England  	2002-2007  	7  	11  	2  	404  	74  	44.88  	864  	46.75  	0  	3  	0  	
in New Zealand  	2002-2009  	5  	9  	1  	322  	124*  	40.25  	649  	49.61  	1  	2  	2
in Pakistan  	2004-2006  	6  	9  	2  	262  	90  	37.42  	503  	52.08  	0  	2  	0
in South Africa  	1997-2007  	7  	12  	3  	370  	89  	41.11  	821  	45.06  	0  	3  	0  	
in Sri Lanka  	1999-2008  	4  	8  	1  	251  	61*  	35.85  	528  	47.53  	0  	2  	0  	
in West Indies  	1997-2006  	13  	21  	2  	903  	130  	47.52  	2027  	44.54  	2  	7  	2

VVS, btw, clearly sucks since he does not play T20 and hit Stuart Broad for 6 sixes (never mind that he has a higher ODI average vs. Australia than Yuvraj - which just happens to be nearly 20 points above Yuvraj's: 27.32 with S/R 87 vs. 46.18 with S/R 77).

[punjabi_khota]

^ Lol dude, there is not point arguing about VVS vs Yuvraj as any one in their right mind will know who is the better test batsman by miles. But the Indian team is betting on UV , so hoping he gets his act together in tests, like VVS did. UV has already shown some improvement in the way he plays spin bowling, so thats one chink ironed out.

[Karan114]

But the Indian team is betting on UV ' date=' so hoping he gets his act together in tests, like VVS did.[/quote'] VVS only took time to get his act together in Tests because he was forced to open with Tendu, Gangu, Dravid and Azhar in the middle-order - and that time he was facing Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Donald and all those greats. If UV was told to open facing the new ball against those bowlers in Test cricket, he would struggle to average 10. We saw how he was made to look a baby in Australia by Lee, Clark etc and they weren't even as good as McGrath.

[graphic23]

^ Lol dude, there is not point arguing about VVS vs Yuvraj as any one in their right mind will know who is the better test batsman by miles. But the Indian team is betting on UV , so hoping he gets his act together in tests, like VVS did. UV has already shown some improvement in the way he plays spin bowling, so thats one chink ironed out.

No, I was just pointing out how dumb of an argument it is to argue that Yuvraj has delivered in "all situations" and Laxman hasn't. I'd bet my life that Yuvraj would not have played the 281 in such a situation. If anything, one could expect a quick 50. This was against McGrath, Warne, Gillespie, all trying their best.

[punjabi_khota]

VVS only took time to get his act together in Tests because he was forced to open with Tendu, Gangu, Dravid and Azhar in the middle-order - and that time he was facing Walsh, Ambrose, Waqar, Donald and all those greats. If UV was told to open facing the new ball against those bowlers in Test cricket, he would struggle to average 10. We saw how he was made to look a baby in Australia by Lee, Clark etc and they weren't even as good as McGrath.

Definitely. But so will a lot of other batsmen(or maybe they will average 15), since opening is specialist job. There is not doubt he has sucked overseas, but he sucked in spin too.

[Karan114]

Definitely. But so will a lot of other batsmen(or maybe they will average 15), since opening is specialist job. There is not doubt he has sucked overseas, but he sucked in spin too.

Yuvi should be averaging 50+ in Test cricket in the middle order at least with his talent, that is why he is frustrating.

[vvvslaxman]

Badri turned out to be a middle order batsman. That is a curse for him. He was competing with Yuvraj. No way he is going to replace him.

[Jersey #10]

It's beyond my understanding as to how some kids like to assume that UV would not have been able to play against so called greats of the old times. One thing I can't understand is, when one retires he becomes the greatest player on earth compared to the recent players. Different times, different situations, different bowlers, different batsmen! JUST COMPARING TEST RECORDS does not prove SH1T. I am talking about one who can deliver regardless of the format...It's obvious that Lax has a better record after 100 odd games and it's unfair on UV's part to have him compared to Lax just after 40 odd games. If I have to compare the two OVER ALL(not only tests)...UV is BETTER ONE IDIOT also claims that Lax did not have the best of records in the initial state because he was asked to do this and that...well that's what I am trying to prove here...He did fail at times and he only succeeded in the middle order...THAT TOO ONLY IN TESTS!

[Jersey #10]

Just to be clear as to why Yuvraj is clearly ahead of Laxman: Test record:

Grouping           	Span  	      Mat  	Inns  NO  	Runs  HS  	Ave  	         BF  	SR  	      100  	50  	0
v Australia  	2004-2008  	4  	8  	1  	64  	27  	9.14  	185  	34.59  	0  	0  	2  
v West Indies  	2006-2006  	4  	7  	1  	104  	39  	17.33  	275  	37.81  	0  	0  	1  	
v Zimbabwe  	2005-2005  	2  	2  	0  	37  	25  	18.50  	90  	41.11  	0  	0  	0  	
v New Zealand  	2003-2009  	4  	7  	2  	150  	54*  	30.00  	288  	52.08  	0  	1  	1
v England  	        2006-2008  	4  	7  	1  	276  	86  	46.00  	461  	59.86  	0  	2  	0  
v Pakistan  	2004-2007  	7  	9  	0  	572  	169  	63.55  	787  	72.68  	3  	1  	0
v South Africa  	2008-2008  	1  	1  	0  	32  	32  	32.00  	57  	56.14  	0  	0  	0
v Sri Lanka  	2005-2009  	4  	6  	1  	287  	77*  	57.40  	456  	62.93  	0  	4  	2

Now you might be wondering whats so great about this record? Well, thats cause we havent looked at his performances abroad:

in Australia  	2007-2008  	2  	4  	0  	17  	12  	4.25  	48  	35.41  	0  	0  	2
in New Zealand  	2009-2009  	3  	5  	1  	125  	54*  	31.25  	182  	68.68  	0  	1  	1  	
in Pakistan  	2004-2006  	6  	7  	0  	401  	122  	57.28  	572  	70.10  	2  	1  	0
in Africa  	        2005-2005  	2  	2  	0  	37  	25  	18.50  	90  	41.11  	0  	0  	0 

VVS would struggle to match this consistent performance over all conditions and situations. Notice the particularly high average of 4.15 vs. Australia in Australia - that is one for the legends. Take a look at this slow poke VVS' performance against these countries (particularly the Australian attack that consisted of McGrath (who, btw was slower than Brett Lee - which is a clear indication that he was easier to play), Warne (Yuvraj would have slog swept him all the time), Gillespie (a nobody, to be honest. Yuvraj doesn't deserve to play against this guy), etc.)

v Australia  1998-2008  	        24  	44  	4  	2204  281          55.10  	4008  	54.99  	6  	10  	2
v England  	2001-2008  	        13  	20  	3  	584  	75  	        34.35  	1317  	44.34  	0  	4  	2
v New Zealand  	2002-2009  	7  	13  	3  	601  	124*  	60.10  	1276  	47.10  	2  	4  	2
v Pakistan  	1999-2007  	15  	25  	7  	775  	112*  	43.05  	1532  	50.58  	1  	6  	2
v South Africa  	1996-2008  	15  	24  	3  	637  	89  	        30.33  	1413  	45.08  	0  	5  	1  	
v Sri Lanka  	1999-2009  	9  	16  	2  	559  	104  	        39.92  	1261  	44.32  	1  	5  	1
v West Indies  	1997-2006  	16  	25  	3  	1174  154*  	53.36  	2736  	42.90  	3  	7  	2

Now to look at his abroad stats (which are much more pathetic, particularly vs. Australia):

in Australia  	1999-2008  	11  	21  	1  	1081  	178  	54.05  	1974  	54.76  	4  	3  	1
in England  	2002-2007  	7  	11  	2  	404  	74  	44.88  	864  	46.75  	0  	3  	0  	
in New Zealand  	2002-2009  	5  	9  	1  	322  	124*  	40.25  	649  	49.61  	1  	2  	2
in Pakistan  	2004-2006  	6  	9  	2  	262  	90  	37.42  	503  	52.08  	0  	2  	0
in South Africa  	1997-2007  	7  	12  	3  	370  	89  	41.11  	821  	45.06  	0  	3  	0  	
in Sri Lanka  	1999-2008  	4  	8  	1  	251  	61*  	35.85  	528  	47.53  	0  	2  	0  	
in West Indies  	1997-2006  	13  	21  	2  	903  	130  	47.52  	2027  	44.54  	2  	7  	2

VVS, btw, clearly sucks since he does not play T20 and hit Stuart Broad for 6 sixes (never mind that he has a higher ODI average vs. Australia than Yuvraj - which just happens to be nearly 20 points above Yuvraj's: 27.32 with S/R 87 vs. 46.18 with S/R 77).

I want you to pull out all these stats when UV completes his 100th TEST. Let's see...:two_thumbs_up:

[punjabi_khota]

Badri turned out to be a middle order batsman. That is a curse for him. He was competing with Yuvraj. No way he is going to replace him.

Wtf are you talking about ? Are you suggesting he could have been better than Gambhir or Sehwag ? :hysterical: If Badri was a opener, his chances of playing for India EVER would be decreased 10 fold because this opening pair we have isn't going anywhere for next 5 years. As a middle order bat, he can either try for #6 in case selectors want to look beyong UV or wait till a couple of years for one or more of fab 3 to retire.

[graphic23]

It's beyond my understanding as to how some kids like to assume that UV would not have been able to play against so called greats of the old times. One thing I can't understand is' date= when one retires he becomes the greatest player on earth compared to the recent players. Different times, different situations, different bowlers, different batsmen! JUST COMPARING TEST RECORDS does not prove SH1T. I am talking about one who can deliver regardless of the format...It's obvious that Lax has a better record after 100 odd games and it's unfair on UV's part to have him compared to Lax just after 40 odd games. If I have to compare the two OVER ALL(not only tests)...UV is BETTER ONE IDIOT also claims that Lax did not have the best of records in the initial state because he was asked to do this and that...well that's what I am trying to prove here...He did fail at times and he only succeeded in the middle order...THAT TOO ONLY IN TESTS!

1. Hi sree_india :hello: 2. Uber :fail: for calling McGrath and Warne "so-called" greats of the "old" times. 3. As I pointed out, UV has the big average of 4.15 vs. Brett Lee, Mitchell Johnson, and Stuart Clark. He was not even good enough to be picked to play against McGrath and Warne! 4. And um, if you knew your cricket, you'd know that Laxman was moved from the middle order to the opening position against Australia - something that was decided in a meeting without even consulting the batsman. Trust me, opening against the likes of McGrath when you're not used to it even in domestic cricket isn't something that is excusable. Tendulkar mentioned it as one of the biggest blunders during his captaincy. I think he'd know better than you. 5. Laxman's played 100 ODIs, as opposed to Yuvi 230+ ODIs. Whats preventing me from using the same reasoning as you and say that Laxman could have become a great ODI player had he played the same # of ODIs as Yuvraj? oh yeah, because thats first rate bullshit. 40 Tests is a good part of Don Bradman's career! You're speaking as if its nothing. BTW, your post reeks of ignorance when you say that he could only succeed in the middle order in tests. Can you please tell me how many people have made successful transitions from the middle order to opening or vice-versa and still succeeded? Do you know why Tendulkar doesn't like playing at any other position other than #4, DGB at #3 or even Brian Lara at #4? Clearly, your understanding of test cricket is extremely limited, and debating these points with someone who thinks ODIs/T20s require greater skill than test cricket isn't worth anyone's time.

[Jersey #10]

1. Hi sree_india :hello: 2. Uber :fail: for calling McGrath and Warne "so-called" greats of the "old" times. 3. As I pointed out, UV has the big average of 4.15 vs. Brett Lee, Mitchell Johnson, and Stuart Clark. He was not even good enough to be picked to play against McGrath and Warne! 4. And um, if you knew your cricket, you'd know that Laxman was moved from the middle order to the opening position against Australia - something that was decided in a meeting without even consulting the batsman. Trust me, opening against the likes of McGrath when you're not used to it even in domestic cricket isn't something that is excusable. Tendulkar mentioned it as one of the biggest blunders during his captaincy. I think he'd know better than you. 5. Laxman's played 100 ODIs, as opposed to Yuvi 230+ ODIs. Whats preventing me from using the same reasoning as you and say that Laxman could have become a great ODI player had he played the same # of ODIs as Yuvraj? oh yeah, because thats first rate bullshit. 40 Tests is a good part of Don Bradman's career! You're speaking as if its nothing. BTW, your post reeks of ignorance when you say that he could only succeed in the middle order in tests. Can you please tell me how many people have made successful transitions from the middle order to opening or vice-versa and still succeeded? Do you know why Tendulkar doesn't like playing at any other position other than #4, DGB at #3 or even Brian Lara at #4? Clearly, your understanding of test cricket is extremely limited, and debating these points with someone who thinks ODIs/T20s require greater skill than test cricket isn't worth anyone's time.

1. :fail: 2. That does not mean UV would have failed against this and that.... 3. How many games has UV actually played against Bret Lee and MJ? and how many has Lax played? 4. I bet you were in the meeting ..RIGHT? or one of the selectors is your family member...what's the source of such insider news? again, STOP ASSUMING SH1T 5. Lax was dropped from the ODI side....why? because he was improving leaps and bounds like UV is doing in Tests RIGHT? 6. Sachin doesn't like playing at any other position other than #4? another assumption or are u closely related with Sachin to know his likes and dislikes? 7. Exactly my point, If you feel that test players are highly skilled then why the hell is Lax not playing in ODI with his exceptional skills? He is not appropriate for it...he can only hit one four in four overs...he struggles to play faster than 70 SR...UV can play both fast and slow at times...

[vvvslaxman]

Wtf are you talking about ? Are you suggesting he could have been better than Gambhir or Sehwag ? :hysterical: If Badri was a opener, his chances of playing for India EVER would be decreased 10 fold because this opening pair we have isn't going anywhere for next 5 years. As a middle order bat, he can either try for #6 in case selectors want to look beyong UV or wait till a couple of years for one or more of fab 3 to retire.

No. Before Gambhir/Sehwag India was running around for openers. Sehwag had a long lay off. When India toured SA , Sehwag played in the middle order to gain form. Even at that time Badri was the highest run getter in the domestic. Vengy gave a reason "It is unfair to introduce badri in SA conditions". A lame reason. But that is what happened.

[graphic23]

1. :fail: 2. That does not mean UV would have failed against this and that.... 3. How many games has UV actually played against Bret Lee and MJ? and how many has Lax played? 4. I bet you were in the meeting ..RIGHT? or one of the selectors is your family member...what's the source of such insider news? again, STOP ASSUMING SH1T 5. Lax was dropped from the ODI side....why? because he was improving leaps and bounds like UV is doing in Tests RIGHT? 6. Sachin doesn't like playing at any other position other than #4? another assumption or are u closely related with Sachin to know his likes and dislikes? 7. Exactly my point, If you feel that test players are highly skilled then why the hell is Lax not playing in ODI with his exceptional skills? He is not appropriate for it...he can only hit one four in four overs...he struggles to play faster than 70 SR...UV can play both fast and slow at times...

Um, 2007-08 was the first time Laxman faced Mitchell Johnson too. If you think Yuvraj hadn't faced Lee prior to the 07-08 series, you're lost or you have STML. Um, Tendulkar himself said that in an interview. If you need some refreshing:

You were particularly unhappy with the selectors. Yes. I was not happy with the selectors at all. It just didn't work out. They had different ideas, I had different ideas. The only thing is, I had to go in there and play with their ideas. One of those ideas was to getting VVS Laxman to open. Exactly. I mean, it all happened literally in the middle of a meeting. Till then he had been a middle-order batsman, and suddenly he was an opener.

from: http://www.cricinfo.com/sachinat20/content/story/135835.html That he was dropped from the ODI side and we instead took Dinesh Mongia to the 2003 World Cup is, afaiac, one of the worst decisions the team management took. Can you point me to how many times Tendulkar or Lara had played at positions other than #4 after they were established in the team? Barely 2 years into int'l cricket, Sachin was at #4: http://www.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/63567.html

[Jersey #10]

UV has played mere 2 games against OZ...so much for a fair comparison! smarts:lol: Laxman has played more than 20 games against OZ... Wow some one is trying to act very smart by comparing these two... UV has a chance to go ahead of Lax in his test career but Lax's chances of being better in the other two formats are next to impossible. UV will go past Lax in 70 odd games...mark my words...

[The Dark Horse]

^Take out Pakistan and what is Yuvi's avg?

[vvvslaxman]

There is a side thread that is going on. Laxman vs Yuv in Tests? I mean enough with jokes already. You are comparing a guy who has amassed 2000 plus runs against one of the all time greatest side ever. The other guy used to waft at everything outside the off stump and got caught in slips. Reverse is true in one dayers i agree. Yuvraj is king in one dayers. But you have to be gigantically ignorant to even draw a parallel between these two in Tests. http://stats.cricinfo.com/ci/engine/stats/index.html?class=1;filter=advanced;opposition=2;orderby=runs;spanmax1=30+Nov+2009;spanmin1=30+Nov+1998;spanval1=span;template=results;type=batting