Sehwag more destructive than Richards

[S.Bond]

you guys are just out of your mind by comparing sehwag and richard as batsmen.... On what basis are you doing this? When we do talk about tendulkar, ODI's and longevity becomes important but here no, hitting the ball on flat tracks is more important....

[The Outsider]

I am not sure why comparison are being made of spin quartret vis a vis Murali and Warne. Every Indian batsmen I know have great averages against Warne and Murali. How does that strengthen Sehwag's case? And how does it weaken Richards case when he scored against quartret. An apt comparison would be if Sehwag scored at 70 against the top pace bowling of his time at home and abroad in his first 10 tests. Not sure that ever happened.

I am sorry you are losing your chain of thought. If you cop out for Sehwag against Murali and Warne is that most Indian batsmen have done well against them, then an equally valid point is that most of the WI batsmen from Viv's team did well against the bowling attacks he faced. I don't recall Lloyd, Greenidge, Haynes etc. struggling against the phaaasht bowling attacks Viv faced. What separated Viv from the rest was the speed at which he scored the runs - same as Sehwag.

[vvvslaxman]

I am sorry you are losing your chain of thought. If you cop out for Sehwag against Murali and Warne is that most Indian batsmen have done well against them' date=' then an equally valid point is that most of the WI batsmen from Viv's team did well against the bowling attacks he faced. I don't recall Lloyd, Greenidge, Haynes etc. struggling against the phaaasht bowling attacks Viv faced. What separated Viv from the rest was the speed at which he scored the runs - same as Sehwag.[/quote'] Yea. he is bringing in whole gamut of things into a discussion which is specific to "Who is more destructive".

[Lurker]

I am sorry you are losing your chain of thought. If you cop out for Sehwag against Murali and Warne is that most Indian batsmen have done well against them' date=' then an equally valid point is [b']that most of the WI batsmen from Viv's team did well against the bowling attacks he faced. I don't recall Lloyd, Greenidge, Haynes etc. struggling against the phaaasht bowling attacks Viv faced. What separated Viv from the rest was the speed at which he scored the runs - same as Sehwag.

With a big difference. Richards not only outscored Lloyd, Greendige, Haynes in terms of Strike rate, but also in terms of sheer runs and averages. In other words he would score more and pummel more runs at the same time. Which really is dominance if you ask me. Sehwag has better SR than other batsmen but surely not the volume of runs, or the average.

[Malcolm Merlyn]

With a big difference. Richards not only outscored Lloyd, Greendige, Haynes in terms of Strike rate, but also in terms of sheer runs and averages. In other words he would score more and pummel more runs at the same time. Which really is dominance if you ask me. Sehwag has better SR than other batsmen but surely not the volume of runs, or the average.

i will just say if an opener socres 6000 runs at an avg of 52 and strike rate of 81...........that says a lot.......his ability to score score quickly and destroy attacks.......

[patriot]

With a big difference. Richards not only outscored Lloyd, Greendige, Haynes in terms of Strike rate, but also in terms of sheer runs and averages. In other words he would score more and pummel more runs at the same time. Which really is dominance if you ask me. Sehwag has better SR than other batsmen but surely not the volume of runs, or the average.

But Sire, as good as they are ..in terms of run scoring ability and averages the Llyods' Greenidges and Haynes ..are no Tendulkar or Dravid..so whats your point ?

[The Outsider]

With a big difference. Richards not only outscored Lloyd, Greendige, Haynes in terms of Strike rate, but also in terms of sheer runs and averages. In other words he would score more and pummel more runs at the same time. Which really is dominance if you ask me. Sehwag has better SR than other batsmen but surely not the volume of runs, or the average.

Not significantly - I can try to pull up the stats if needed, but off the top of my head these guys averaged late 30s to mid 40s against Australia, which was the only real phaaasht bowling attack Viv faced. Pakistan and England kind of attacks even Sehwag has faced up to. Moreover, Greenidge/Haynes/Lloyd were inherently inferior batsmen than Dravid/Tendulkar so that is also on expected lines. Plus, Richards had the luxury of batting behind one of the greatest opening partnership of all time.

[Bumper]

I dont agree with all the points you make, Lurker. But sadly i dont have the time (that I had couple of years ago) to go on with this debate. I have already overshot my quota for the month :-) Anyways good debate while it lasted. Good luck!

[patriot]

@ Lurker - On the issue of volume of run making, average etc.. Just for the record Sehwag does not have too many not outs to boost his as it is impressive average of 52. In terms of Runs/innings he triumphs everyone bar Lara . Sehwag: 50.796748 SRT: 48.9433962 Dravid: 47.4936709 Ponting: 49.5652174 Lara: 51.5215517

[The Outsider]

Greenidge : Test Batting Stats by Opposition [table=head]|Runs|BatAv|BatSR Australia|1819|40.42|48.16 England|2318|50.39|54.79 New Zealand|882|55.13|45.14 India|1678|47.94|44.32 Pakistan|861|31.89|43.98 [/table] Haynes : Test Batting Stats by Opposition [table=head]|Runs|BatAv|BatSR Australia|2233|42.13|47.67 England|2392|47.84|44.12 South Africa|81|40.50|66.94 New Zealand|843|49.59|43.68 India|990|34.14|45.39 Pakistan|928|37.12|39.78 Sri Lanka|20|20.00|42.55 [/table] Lloyd : Test Batting Stats by Opposition [table=head]|Runs|BatAv|BatSR Australia|2211|50.25|60.72 England|2120|45.11|55.93 New Zealand|234|16.71|31.69 India|2344|58.60|65.38 Pakistan|606|37.88|52.48 [/table] Richards : Test Batting Stats by Opposition [table=head]|Runs|BatAv|BatSR Australia|2266|44.43|66.05 England|2869|62.37|72.10 New Zealand|387|43.00|71.53 India|1927|50.71|71.07 Pakistan|1091|41.96|66.53 [/table]

[Malcolm Merlyn]

Not significantly - I can try to pull up the stats if needed' date=' but off the top of my head these guys averaged late 30s to mid 40s against Australia, which was the only real phaaasht bowling attack Viv faced. Pakistan and England kind of attacks even Sehwag has faced up to. Moreover, Greenidge/Haynes/Lloyd were inherently inferior batsmen than Dravid/Tendulkar so that is also on expected lines. Plus, Richards had the luxury of batting behind one of the greatest opening partnership of all time.[/quote'] Greenidge career avg 44 avgd 40 againist australia and 31 againist pakistan lloyd career avg 46 avgs 16 vs NZ and 37 vs pakistan haynes career avg 42 avgs 42 againist australia 34 vs india and 37 againist pakistan all the avgs drop significantly when they play these teams away from the carribean Viv richards avgs in 41 to 43 againist most teams....except india (50) england(60)........avgs 19 in newzealnd so stats wise sehwag isnt a bunny

[S.Bond]

Actually you understand one thing. SEHWAG AND RICHARDS does not have the same average if you put things in perspective... In the 70s only 8 batsmen averages more than 50, richards averaged 58... In the 80s only 6 batsmen averaged overs 50, richard was number 7 with 49,16... In the 2000s when sehwag played, 2 batsmen averaged more than 50, and 26over 49.88. That just shows the immence difference between batting in the 70s-80s and nowadays.... Again i just don't want to debate on sehwag-richard... That is just stupid... because in this case you can debate sehwag-tendulkar too... but that will surely not please you to listen all the flaws tendulkar has in his carrer??,

[Lurker]

Not significantly - I can try to pull up the stats if needed, but off the top of my head these guys averaged late 30s to mid 40s against Australia, which was the only real phaaasht bowling attack Viv faced.

Correction. Australian fast bowling attack(I am assuming you are hinting at Lilee and Thomson) was one of the very best in the world, and one of the best of all times. However every other team had atleast 1 outstanding pace bowler. In most of these countries this bowler would be the best in a long time, or amongst the best, to represent. New Zealand - Hadlee Pakistan - Imran & Akram England - Bob Willis and Ian Botham India - Kapil Dev Lets just compare for a second the lead fast bowlers today New Zealand - Shane Bond(good but Hadlee was easily better) Pakistan - Asif and Aamer(you kidding me) England - Anderson & Harmisson (yawn) India - Zaheer and Ishant. (good but Kapil was better). It may sound like nostalgia but I would even pitch SL pace bowlers of the time - Ashantha De Mel, Ratnayake etc ahead of Welgedera and co. Malinga is a different cup of tea altogether of course. This compiled with flat road track pitches, heavy bats, small boundaries, boucer rules yada yada. I mean in this current series we have 12 batsmen with over 50 average!! Yes thats half the side of two teams scoring at 50 plus runs. How in the world do you compare this with the era when 2 players with 50 plus average would have been enough to win the series is beyond me really.

Moreover, Greenidge/Haynes/Lloyd were inherently inferior batsmen than Dravid/Tendulkar so that is also on expected lines. Plus, Richards had the luxury of batting behind one of the greatest opening partnership of all time.

Not sure how that works. On one hand you suggest Greenidge/Haynes were not as good as SRT and co and then also suggest they were one of the great opening acts. Of course they were great, in fact possibly the greatest of all times. So whats the point? One can make a case that Sehwag scores freely because he has Sachin, Dravid, VVS to follow and hence gets the free hand. However at the end both Richards and Sehwag have to go out and score runs themselves. It matters little who followed them, before or after. xxx

[yoda]

both are great players .. instead of comparing both ' date=' we need to give them their own spaces in cricket history ..[/quote'] +1

[vvvslaxman]

Lurker.. when did Sehwag play against Aamer in Tests? He played Akhtar, Lee, Mcgrath, Gillepsie, Warne, Murali, Pollock, Donald, Steyn, Ntini. They don't look like bowlers?

[vvvslaxman]

Asantha de mel.. sorry man you are losing me. He was one of the worst bowler of the 80s. Srikkanth raped him in every street corner.

[vvvslaxman]

Whatever Lurker says is just assumption. SOmething called video analysis started in the 90s. They have all kind of graphs at their disposal to work out the weakness of a batsman. Wasn't there in the 80s. I am a crazy fan of Richards. But i would never put down Sehwag based on the hypothesis that he would have failed had he played in that era. That is pure speculation. You just have to go by with your observation instead of stats. I have observed both very close and long. Sehwag is one of a kind. He is not the natural athlete like Richards. He is not an intimidating figure. His real genius will be known only after he leaves the scene.

[Lurker]

Asantha de mel.. sorry man you are losing me. He was one of the worst bowler of the 80s. Srikkanth raped him in every street corner.

Srikkanth raped De Mel? When? Where? For a moment I thought I may have missed something but then checked Cheeka's stats, he scores at a mamoth 27 against Lankans. De Mel took 20 wickets in 5 tests against India at 37. Not bad at all considering how weak they were at that time. His 17 tests brought him 59 wickets. None of Indian pacers in the beginning, apart from Nissar and Amar Singh, can boast of that kind of record. And I would suspect if Welgedera and Kulushekhra would have 59 wickets after 17 tests, if they are selected to play 17 tests that is.

Lurker.. when did Sehwag play against Aamer in Tests? He played Akhtar, Lee, Mcgrath, Gillepsie, Warne, Murali, Pollock, Donald, Steyn, Ntini. They don't look like bowlers?

You need to read my post again to understand better. If you still dont feel free to ask me. xxx

[vvvslaxman]

I have seen Demel in one dayers against cheeka. He just murdered him. Richards himself murdered him in the world cup. He is a crap bowler. Don't go by stats. I have seen that guy. Rumesh Ratnayake big chucker. You are saying this is flat pitch era. Look at Steyn's average and strike rate in flat pitch era. Does that make him better than any bowler in the 80s?

[ananthd]

I always find comparing eras odious.... It's always based on assumptions and what ifs; we never know how Richards would fare against Murali or Sehwag against Lillee.... I'd say one thing though: It's undeniable that the last decade is by far the most profligate(in terms of bowlers being profligte) and batters seem to have feasted on it.... Here's a list of the top 75 scores in Test History.... Of which in the last decade 2000-2009 contributes 25 of them..... The next highest decade is the 90s with 12..... Here's a decade wise breakdown(of the last 100 years): 2000-2009: 25 1990-1999: 12 1980-1989: 4 1970-1979: 8 1960-1969: 5 1950-1959: 9 1940-1949: 0 (WW 2) 1930 - 1939 : 10 1920 - 1929: 1 1910 - 1919 : 0 1900 - 1909 : 1 Take for whatever it's worth.... But I think all these discussions must be tempered by this fact: 37 of the 75 highest scores in Test cricket have been scored in the last 20 years and 25 of them the last 10 years..... Either batters have become supermen or bowlers midgets.... There's a few pinches of salt for you.....