I don't rate India a long-term No.1 - Ian Chappell

[akshayxyz]

To be honest this topic doesn't deserve such a highlight from cricinfo. They know it will definitely increase number of hits if they give a fancy headline like this. It worked for Times online UK. Remember Atherton's article. They had huge number of hits. Huge number of responses to his articles. Look at his current article. Last i checked there were only 3 responses. They know it is easy to throw us into a hissyfit with articles and discussion like this. I say collectively we should try to be thick skinned. Our attitude should be like "India is not long term no.1.. So?" . More we respond more you are going to see such articles.

So, should I assume, either: you would not like to see India dominating for long term? or: you think we already are set to be long term # 1? I have ruled out the possibility that you are not bothered about the whole thing - since you did respond. Can there be any other reason why you would not want to listen about what it takes to be long term # 1? You can choose to be thick skinned, and have every right to express your opinion, but its usually good to substantiate your suggestion with - merits/demerits of following (or not following) what you are suggesting (be thick skinned in this case). In absence of such pros/cons there is very little credibility to your suggestion.

[akshayxyz]

I only hope Indian team / management is not thick skinned. as I really wish to witness an India-dominated era. If that does not happen, nothing is lost, but if that happens, i would like india to stay on top - until we get bored of seeing them on top :).

[The Outsider]

akshay, can't you see the ulterior motives of all these media houses and every cricket "analyst" having their say on India's number 1 ranking? Where were all these aspersions, discussions, and dissections when South Africa assumed the mantle. The same Ian Chappell was lauding Duminy() to take over from Ponting as the next great batsman at that time. Calling Ponting as the dominant great over the past few years is itself a lullzer, but that's besides the point. Do I think we have it to dominate world cricket as WI and Australia did? Probably not. Do I think we have it in our team to be at the number 1 spot for more time than any other side over the next 5 years. Definitely yes.

[Sachinism]

Do you guys think any teams in the near future will dominate like WI and Aus have done? If not then we need to accept India is currently No. 1 and STFU about it

[Zelig]

When Australia took over the mantle from the West Indies didn't they have a YOUNG TALENTED team?:hmmm: Add to that, they were all tried and tested before they were given thrown at intl stage. Players like Hayden, Martyn, Langer, Gilchrist toiled in the domestics before they EARNED their caps. I think the quality of the replacements of the fab four will decide how long we stay at the top over the next few years.

[vvvslaxman]

So, should I assume, either: you would not like to see India dominating for long term? or: you think we already are set to be long term # 1? I have ruled out the possibility that you are not bothered about the whole thing - since you did respond. Can there be any other reason why you would not want to listen about what it takes to be long term # 1? You can choose to be thick skinned, and have every right to express your opinion, but its usually good to substantiate your suggestion with - merits/demerits of following (or not following) what you are suggesting (be thick skinned in this case). In absence of such pros/cons there is very little credibility to your suggestion.

I would like India to win everything. Which Indian fan wouldn't. It doesn't matter how they do it. But my gripe is there is too much of analysis about India's no.1 ranking by all sundries. Frankly it is getting old. ICC ranking is merely indicating the current form of a team. We are currently in form. That's all there to it. Manjrekar, Ian Chappell discuss a lot of things every week. They usually don't highlight them. But this one was at the top of the news. It is nothing more an effort to increase hit count. Don't you think what Chappell says is so obvious? How come there was no discussion when SA reached top ranking. They didn't look like a long term no.1 team as well.

[vvvslaxman]

I only hope Indian team / management is not thick skinned. as I really wish to witness an India-dominated era. If that does not happen, nothing is lost, but if that happens, i would like india to stay on top - until we get bored of seeing them on top :).

What i meant was this is nothing but an attention-grabbing piece. Whole idea of the article is to stir up Indian fans to respond to their article. They are somewhat successful in that. You seem pretty stirred aleady.:winky: Exactly similar piece came in Guardian sometime back defending another other from Times online. http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/simonbriggs/100004312/india-cant-justify-test-status-without-a-bowling-superstar/ This has become a trend .Discrediting India's ranking hoping it would stir Indian fans. Every single time it has worked. That is why i want Indian fans to be thick skinned about it.

[youngindia]

But even casual comment on India gets attention. So they milk as much as possible.

for the record, ian chappell has been far more harsh on SA because he has a grudge from the tour when his men got thrashed by SA. i do not consider ian chappell an india baiter. casting suspicion on everyone from aus or the west is stupid.

[The Outsider]

for the record, ian chappell has been far more harsh on SA because he has a grudge from the tour when his men got thrashed by SA. i do not consider ian chappell an india baiter. casting suspicion on everyone from aus or the west is stupid.

Chappell is not an India baiter? Remember the mirror article on Tendulkar?

[youngindia]

youngindia' date=' do you think Warne and Murali can be "produced"?[/quote'] let me put it this way. a wide talent pool of well trained players gives the best chance to find exceptional players. this works anywhere. 1. there has to be enthusiastic participation. 2. there has to be facilities to facilitate participation. 3 training has to be given on a wide scale so that as many people get opportuntiies. 3. the right people have to be identified and selected for junior levels. 4. the more promising prospects require high quality training and attention. the objective is to eventually create a high quality talent pool for the highest level. the better systems are good at doing all this and hence find more exceptional players and better talent pool . That's pretty much what sports systems do. china,russia,usa have all done this. india is the only highly populous country that has not done it.

[The Outsider]

^ Let's not digress into other sports. In cricket, our structure is pretty good and is improving with every passing year. Is it perfect? No, but it's moving in the right direction with the exception of the leach called IPL. The structure can give you good spinners like Harbhajan, Mishra, Ojha but it cannot produce a Warne or a Murali. Just like Australia's structure can give them Ponting and Hayden but cannot produce another Bradman, Tendulkar, or Lara.

[youngindia]

the way you dismiss Kumble who is the greatest match winner India has ever produced shows your lack of knowledge and apperication' date='[/quote'] first don't put words into my mouth. read my post clearly. second ,i didn't ask you to guagwe my knowledge. i could not care less.

if I have to settle for kumble in persuit of warne I will take it everyday of the week and twice on sunday.

then you are settling for status quo. its that simple. for example aus would not have defended 213 vs SA in 1999 or against windies in 1996 with kumble. i am not denying lkumble's achivements. just stating his limitations beyond a certain point.

Nobody aims for summit first , it is a process of taking baby steps

these steps you are talkin about has to set the bar higher. it cannot be status quo.

Systems don't produce world beaters with talent they are just born with it,American tennis has best infrastructure in world then why has it not produced another sampras or Aggasi.

this is ignorance about sporting systems. they are very important. especially for a huge population like india. without credible systems, you win scraps like india in the olympics. :) don't delude yourself. as for how system produces exceptional players, read my previous post.

[vvvslaxman]

for the record, ian chappell has been far more harsh on SA because he has a grudge from the tour when his men got thrashed by SA. i do not consider ian chappell an india baiter. casting suspicion on everyone from aus or the west is stupid.

It is nothing to do with Ian being an India basher or not. It is about media getting more attention by riling up Indian fans (not all). It is an attention grabber. . I have never seen as much attention paid to an ICC ranking as this since its inception.

[dial_100]

I dont want to disagree with IC.. The real question is who is going to take india's 20 wickets for less than 500 runs to beat us.... Answer that. My simple question. Can any one beat us? As long as the games are drawn against SA and AUS, they aint becoming #1 either. So if we dont let them become #1 thats good enough for us to stay there. Besides, in foreign conditions, ZAK, IS and SS are good enough to get 20 wickets for 400-600 in 3 days. And our batsmen often end up scoring almost 550 in less than two days. END OF STORY.. we know how to win TEST matches now Ian. Rather try to bring in some Aussie bowlers who will take 20 wickets or try some different logic to claim we aint #1. That aint happening because we are and majority of next 2-3 years we will remain #1..

[youngindia]

In cricket' date=' our structure is pretty good and is improving with every passing year. Is it perfect? No, but it's moving in the right direction[/quote'] yes. but over 70 years were spent in "mid tier" status. only in recent years, we have moved officially near top tier. right now , i can guanratee that the available batting talent is high quality.something i would not have done four years ago. That only means we are starting to show what we are capable of. long way to go. a large state like bihar has not given a champion cricketer. states like kerala and orissa are under represented. north east zip.cricketers from remote villages like jadeja can rise more. lots of untapped potential.

The structure can give you good spinners like Harbhajan, Mishra, Ojha but it cannot produce a Warne or a Murali.

i dont see one reason why. its called underachievement. our system is incomplete and headed by morons. so such judgement is based on incomplete information.

Just like Australia's structure can give them Ponting and Hayden but cannot produce another Bradman, Tendulkar, or Lara

disagree again. ponting was close. federer is swiss remember. who have thought in the 90's?

[youngindia]

they may have creditable head to head records .. but how many have they played is the question .. if they have played 2 or 3 matches and won most of them .. nothing to shout about ..did they do it over 10 matches or so ..

yes,krajicek over 11 matches and nalbandian over 15 and over a decade as well.

[akshayxyz]

akshay, can't you see the ulterior motives of all these media houses and every cricket "analyst" having their say on India's number 1 ranking? Where were all these aspersions, discussions, and dissections when South Africa assumed the mantle. The same Ian Chappell was lauding Duminy() to take over from Ponting as the next great batsman at that time. Calling Ponting as the dominant great over the past few years is itself a lullzer, but that's besides the point. Do I think we have it to dominate world cricket as WI and Australia did? Probably not. Do I think we have it in our team to be at the number 1 spot for more time than any other side over the next 5 years. Definitely yes.

Agreed - I have read those articles also - but in this one he has been reasonably careful enough to make it look like constructive criticism. So why not try to take any +ive points if there are, and then actually be a long term # one.. That is the surest way to shut everyone up. By the way - I registered on this forum when Sambit Bal's cricinfo article (sehwag vs richards ) got locked.. and I was restless to put across my views. I have been a daily visitor ( 2-3 hours some times), ever since :(((

[The Outsider]

i dont see one reason why. its called underachievement. our system is incomplete and headed by morons. so such judgement is based on incomplete information. disagree again. ponting was close. federer is swiss remember. who have thought in the 90's?

Because a Tendulkar or Warne are going to come up regardless which system you put them in, just like Akram did in Pakistan, or Lara in WI. A good system can give you good, even very good cricketers, but it cannot produce geniuses. And Ponting? Sorry, not even close but that's a discussion for another day.

[akshayxyz]

Let me rephrase it this way - Is it wrong for any one to say - "I do not rate India a long term no.1". Do you not wish you were in a position - where you could counter it based on stats - that we are long term #1. For e.g. We had strong stats to answer "sehwag vs richards". I am happy such people exist, if they do not ask such questions we may not even think about being long term #1, but now that so many people have raised this query. We do see that as an opportunity to grab. And I hope Indian cricket team have been perceiving it in the same way, as I am. In a way these people are making us aware of next mountain to scale. To give an analogy - Sania Mirza is India's best female tennis talent. But she was showered with so much praise that she sort of lost her way, had some one challenged her - that while we do appreciate your achievements but you are far far from world number 1.. The more people would have asked that question, it is more likely that she would have put extra effort to higher her ranking.

[vvvslaxman]

So far whatever Ian Chappell has said just the opposite has happened :hysterical: Tendulkar mirror, comment about England bowling after 1st test, comment about Duminy taking over ponting,.. everything has backfired big time. So yea.. i am extremely happy it came out from his mouth. :hysterical: