The Outsider Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 I looked around and couldn't find a thread on this significant meeting and open call for Jihad by Kashmiri militants in PoK. Please merge if there is already a thread on this. What are we going to discuss in the 'talks'? Where is the US when it's ally on terror is turning a blind eye to terrorism under it's own eyes? The New York Times has not even covered the story till now and Telegraph was the only British paper I could find with coverage of it. The dawn article gives a more detailed coverage of the barbarianism talked about. I really believe Pakistan are doing it's best to fight terror now. http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/the-newspaper/front-page/16-govt-urged-not-to-create-hurdles-for-kashmir-jihad-hs-06 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/pakistan/7166208/Pakistan-terrorist-groups-hold-Kashmir-rally.html Speakers included senior figures from a charitable front for Lashkar-e-Taiba (LeT), the banned militant group blamed by India and the United States for the Mumbai attacks. The Kashmir Solidarity conference said a ban on Kashmiri militant groups should be overturned and the region should again become a "base camp" for militants. A declaration adopted at the meeting said: "If the rulers cannot help the Kashmiris, they should open the field for Kashmiri Mujahideen instead of creating hurdles. "They [Mujahideen] will deal with India." Both India and Pakistan claim the territory of Kashmir, which has been divided since independence in 1947, and the dispute has triggered two wars between them. A bloody insurgency against Indian rule in Kashmir has killed more than 45,000 in the past 20 years. The conference was organised by Jamaat-ud-Dawa (JuD), which the United Nations listed as a front for LeT after the Mumbai attacks which killed 166 people in November 2008. Senior JuD figures including Abdul Aziz Alvi and Abdur Rehman Makki addressed about 5,000 attendees at the rally in Muzaffarabad. Lt Gen Hamid Gul, former chief of Pakistan's ISI military intelligence service also attended. Syed Salalhuddin, chairman of the 16-party United Jihad Council, called for an end to sanctions on JuD and said jihad was "the only solution to free Kashmir from the Indian yoke". Radical groups also pledged to defeat any attempt to create a "friendship treaty and trade with India". The rally was held as India offered to reopen peace talks with its nuclear-armed neighbour. Indian and Pakistani officials are likely to meet on Monday to decide the agenda of bilateral talks proposed by India over a year after the terror attacks on Mumbai.
seedhi Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 I looked around and couldn't find a thread on this significant meeting and open call for Jihad by Kashmiri militants in PoK. Please merge if there is already a thread on this. What are we going to discuss in the 'talks'? Where is the US when it's ally on terror is turning a blind eye to terrorism under it's own eyes? The New York Times has not even covered the story till now and Telegraph was the only British paper I could find with coverage of it. I had posted about this meeting on another thread about India proposing talks with pakistan http://www.indiancricketfans.com/showpost.php?p=948495&postcount=11 . I am also aghast at how blatantly the jehadi groups are given a free hand in pakistan. JuD is supposed to be banned but it holds this meeting in full view of the world. The dawn article gives a more detailed coverage of the barbarianism talked about. I really believe Pakistan are doing it's best to fight terror now.I hope this was sarcastic.
Lurker Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 I looked around and couldn't find a thread on this significant meeting and open call for Jihad by Kashmiri militants in PoK. Please merge if there is already a thread on this. What are we going to discuss in the 'talks'? Where is the US when it's ally on terror is turning a blind eye to terrorism under it's own eyes? The New York Times has not even covered the story till now and Telegraph was the only British paper I could find with coverage of it. The dawn article gives a more detailed coverage of the barbarianism talked about. I really believe Pakistan are doing it's best to fight terror now. You really beleive or you reall don't beleive? :hmmm:
Clarke Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 Oh Noooo, they're not terrorists, they're "Freedom Fighter", that too indigenous. They have been fighting the oppression by the hindoo majority. Just like there's good taliban (Afghan) & bad taliban (TTP), there's terrorists (Shiv Sena/Bajrang Dal/VHP/BJP) and there's freedom fighters (LeT/JeM/JuD/HuM/IM). So lets be clear on the above .. hence Pakistan does not harbor terrorists. Shall we start the peace talks now ?
The Outsider Posted February 5, 2010 Author Posted February 5, 2010 I am also aghast at how blatantly the jehadi groups are given a free hand in pakistan. JuD is supposed to be banned but it holds this meeting in full view of the world. I hope this was sarcastic. You really beleive or you reall don't beleive? :hmmm: Yeah it was meant to be a sarcastic remark. I read some more news pieces on this, mostly from Pakistani and neutral sources as Indian sources were bound to be biased. There was no attempt to put up any pretense at the meeting - the statements are pretty much a call for terrorism against India, all under the Pakistan government who are supposed to be doing their best to weed out terrorism. The names mentioned in the articles are a freaking who is who of the masterminds behind the Kashmiri Jihad. At times like this I wish we had a good covert agency who could have planted a bomb or at least shot a few of these rats when they came out of their holes. If we can't do it, phucking outsource the deaths of these guys to Mossad for a few million dollars. :giggle: They are openly talking about scuppering any attempts to further trade and friendship with India - what the hell are India and Pakistan's diplomats talk about?
yoda Posted February 5, 2010 Posted February 5, 2010 Oh Noooo, they're not terrorists, they're "Freedom Fighter", that too indigenous. They have been fighting the oppression by the hindoo majority. Just like there's good taliban (Afghan) & bad taliban (TTP), there's terrorists (Shiv Sena/Bajrang Dal/VHP/BJP) and there's freedom fighters (LeT/JeM/JuD/HuM/IM). So lets be clear on the above .. hence Pakistan does not harbor terrorists. Shall we start the peace talks now ? Correct, and in preparation for the talks, let us get ready to bend over. :((
The Outsider Posted February 6, 2010 Author Posted February 6, 2010 That's the Pakistani on the street expressing 'solidarity' with Kashmir laden with guns and all. Notice the average age of the 'aam JuD member' would be 16-18 years with a 8 year old showing off a gun for this 'charitable' organization. This is happening on the streets of Lahore and not some shady town in FATA or NWFP. http://www.hindu.com/2010/02/06/stories/2010020660781500.htm
EnterTheVoid Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 This, I found particularly amusing: .... A string of other JuD speakers praised jihad, and urged Pakistanis to take to it in “Kashmir, Afghanistan, Iraq and Palestine.” .... Moral guardians of the Muslim Ummah are they ? Also Shwetabh, look at the audience he is addressing: From the article, "deputy to JuD leader Hafiz Saeed, told his audience, mostly traders from the local market, students from madrasas and JuD activists bussed in from Rawalpindi." WTF are they taught in these madrases ?
Desi Cartman Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 IMO maybe India wanted Pak wanted to stop all the BS and Pakis said " well we dont have a forum to discuss anything " and our MAN-mohan agreed to talks .. Maybe thats how it all happened This is where Congress is so ****ing soft. They just dont have balls to say anything ( well they once said but couldnt stand by it for more than a year )
Lurker Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 I read some more news pieces on this, mostly from Pakistani and neutral sources as Indian sources were bound to be biased. There was no attempt to put up any pretense at the meeting - the statements are pretty much a call for terrorism against India, all under the Pakistan government who are supposed to be doing their best to weed out terrorism. Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second Shwetabh. These demonstrations, as worrying as they are, are no different than what is routinely observed in Pakistan against United States. If there was a public referendum on which country is hated most in Pakistan I would think America and India would make a good case for being number 1 and I would not be surprised if America actually pips India. But that has not stopped US to not only engage Pakistan but keep the ruling class very much within its sphere of influence, hasnt it? I am reminded of Imran Khan and his whole Quran dumped in toilet saga against US. It blew completely out of control and if I am not mistaken a large number of people lost their life in the later incidents. Imran was on public media openly saying whatever he did and fanned the instigation. He also appeared on American media and later on also travelled on USA. Point being, if America has engaged Pakistan inspite of all of this is it prudent for India to completely shut it out? Again, we are not suggesting lowering of guards here. They are openly talking about scuppering any attempts to further trade and friendship with India - what the hell are India and Pakistan's diplomats talk about? There are plenty to talk about really, from issues ranging from agriculture to irrigation. The problem is Kashmir overshadow everything. If both sides actually reach a point where Kashmir is no more the Domocles sword that would be a start. By the way from a strategic perspective the more India engages Pakistan, the more the subversive elements inside Pakistan get miffed and strike against Pakistani establishment. It kind of gives a unique strategic depth to India. Should we lose that? xxx
The Outsider Posted February 6, 2010 Author Posted February 6, 2010 Let me play Devil's Advocate here for a second Shwetabh. These demonstrations, as worrying as they are, are no different than what is routinely observed in Pakistan against United States. If there was a public referendum on which country is hated most in Pakistan I would think America and India would make a good case for being number 1 and I would not be surprised if America actually pips India. But that has not stopped US to not only engage Pakistan but keep the ruling class very much within its sphere of influence, hasnt it? Yaar, comparing India and America's position with respect to Pakistan is just weird, for want of a better word. 1. Despite the public being against America the government know that they have only to gain by being in the US' good books, so they'll play the kind of balancing act where they will talk about the country's independence and allow US drones to keep up the bombings at more than one a day. 2. US is sitting half way across the globe and in general could not give a flying phuck about what the average Pakistani thinks of it as long as their goals are being met. For better or for worse the destinies of India and Pakistan are intrinsically linked. I am reminded of Imran Khan and his whole Quran dumped in toilet saga against US. It blew completely out of control and if I am not mistaken a large number of people lost their life in the later incidents. Imran was on public media openly saying whatever he did and fanned the instigation. He also appeared on American media and later on also travelled on USA. Point being, if America has engaged Pakistan inspite of all of this is it prudent for India to completely shut it out? Again, we are not suggesting lowering of guards here. Look at that photo that the Hindu has published - I trust that newspaper enough to be confident they won't fake it. This is a rally of a supposedly under the scanner organization in Lahore of all places, with kids and teenagers totting guns (which might be fake, but that's not the point) against India. I just don't see how we should talk about cricket and one more service of Samjhauta express when the organization responsible for one of the most gruesome terror attacks on India is being shielded by their government. Do you think the US will engage Pakistan in talks if Al Qaeda and Taliban are allowed to hold such agitations with support from the government? There are plenty to talk about really, from issues ranging from agriculture to irrigation. The problem is Kashmir overshadow everything. If both sides actually reach a point where Kashmir is no more the Domocles sword that would be a start. By the way from a strategic perspective the more India engages Pakistan, the more the subversive elements inside Pakistan get miffed and strike against Pakistani establishment. It kind of gives a unique strategic depth to India. Should we lose that? xxx All that becomes moot. Let me reiterate my age old stance on this - till the point when Pakistan is able to curb violent actions against India regarding Kashmir, nothing will change between the two countries. You can pay all lip service for a few years about Jeet Lo Dil and Choos Lo Lu** but as soon as a Kargil, attack on parliament, or Mumbai happens you will go back to square one or worse. Resolving terrorism, making the LoC a permanent border, and closing out the Kashmir issue once and for all is the only way forward. When the subversive elements get mad at Pakistan establishment for engaging in talks with India they don't vent their anger on the Pakistan government but on Indian civilians - that's an established modus operandi.
Clarke Posted February 6, 2010 Posted February 6, 2010 Talking of peace talks, we seem to be missing the point here, its Afghanistan. Our govt did not want to be left out of the deal making process after pouring in so much money there. What exactly can we expect in terms of talking with Pakistan and exerting any sort of influence in Afghanistan ? Our objectives might be to ensure that the Afghan soil is not used to harbor any anti-India elements and that might be pretty difficult to achieve. My bad feeling is most of Afghanistan will remain a mess and although the Karzai govt will be fine in Kabul or the few urban areas, there wont be any control over the majority of Afghanistan, just like the lack of Federal Pakistani control over NWFP. We have this Gilani openly stating they cannot control Anti-India elements on their soil; what hope do we have of Afghanistan ?
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