Discussing first test at Nagpur between India and SA, 2010

[Gunner_Mania]

See, here is where I have problems. We are mere spectators from the outside looking in. What do we know what transpired behind the scenes and whether or not time was given to the batsman by the captain? The captain's match tactics are important than a batsman getting a landmark score. The captain could have been gracious enough waiting for those runs. But he does not need to be. Moreoever, that was one of Sachin's dourest innings ever. A painful one to witness, if ever there was one. And yes he was awfully slow throughout. The same thing happened with Dravid when we did not insert England in and declined to force a follow on. Only Dravid and the team management would have been in the know as to whether our bowlers were in the right frame of mind and health to go through the grind again. But the press and countless fans lambasted Dravid for that decision. Despite India winning that series!

Thats why we are armchair critics:) There are two different things, if Sachin was aware of the decision by the team to declare and was given the opportunity and he didnt take it then can't blame anybody but himself, but if he wasn't given the opportunity then it is the captain to blame. The point about this being a brave decision and whether India would have taken it, I disagree that this was a brave decision. Amla was never going to get his triple hundred tonight. He was going to need atleast 30-60 minutes tomorrow to get it. It would have been a brave decision, if he was on 290+ and Smith decided to declare tonight because he wanted to bowl at India. As for the Indian. like Lord says whoever the batsman he would ave either scored it or got out trying to accelerate.

[Lord]

See' date=' here is where I have problems. We are mere spectators from the outside looking in. What do we know what transpired behind the scenes and whether or not time was given to the batsman by the captain? The captain's match tactics are important than a batsman getting a landmark score. The captain could have been gracious enough waiting for those runs. But he does not need to be. [/quote'] agree.actually i think Smith was smart to declare while Amla was on 253 n did not wait till the end of play.then Amla might have got close n then he would have had to bat tomorrow

Moreoever, that was one of Sachin's dourest innings ever. A painful one to witness, if ever there was one. And yes he was awfully slow throughout.

not really,his SR that innings was 55.74. its only cozs of Sehwag's innings at the other end that SRT's innings looked slow

The same thing happened with Dravid when we did not insert England in and declined to force a follow on. Only Dravid and the team management would have been in the know as to whether our bowlers were in the right frame of mind and health to go through the grind again. But the press and countless fans lambasted Dravid for that decision. Despite India winning that series!

well Zak compounded problems by coming out in media n sayingmhe wasnt tired:cantstop:

[achilles]

John Wright was our coach back then:cantstop:

Replace the term "Greg Chappell" with "John Wright" :two_thumbs_up:

I would hate to guess on who made that decision. But I agree absolutely with you. That was among Sachin's least authoritative innings. He only ebbed. He forgot to flow in that innings.

Yes. They made a huge fuss out of it, I feel.

[thevortex]

Thats why we are armchair critics:) There are two different things' date=' if Sachin was aware of the decision by the team to declare and was given the opportunity and he didnt take it then can't blame anybody but himself, but if he wasn't given the opportunity then it is the captain to blame.[/quote'] Correct. We are still in the realm of suppositions. Precisely why I would not venture to say that Dravid was right in copping all that flak.

The point about this being a brave decision and whether India would have taken it, I disagree that this was a brave decision. Amla was never going to get his triple hundred tonight. He was going to need atleast 30-60 minutes tomorrow to get it. It would have been a brave decision, if he was on 290+ and Smith decided to declare tonight because he wanted to bowl at India. As for the Indian. like Lord says whoever the batsman he would ave either scored it or got out trying to accelerate.

See the question was simple. If Tendulkar had been on 250 plus, do you think India would have declared today? I think not. If you think otherwise, then we must just agree to disagree and move on.

agree.actually i think Smith was smart to declare while Amla was on 253 n did not wait till the end of play.then Amla might have got close n then he would have had to bat tomorrow not really,his SR that innings was 55.74. its only cozs of Sehwag's innings at the other end that SRT's innings looked slow well Zak compounded problems by coming out in media n sayingmhe wasnt tired:cantstop:

Lord - it is not about matters of strike rate. I have seen Dravid innings having far lower strike rates which have been more entertaining. Sachin was just not there in that innings. And his considered compromise of one of his favourite strokes - the cover drive - did not help. One the one hand I think this is one aspect that takes him above Lara - to put mind over matter and be ready to struggle like other rank mortals. But then, one cannot have the cake and eat it too. If you are not scoring runs at a decent rate then you must not be surprised the captain is not waiting up for you to get to a landmark. Zaheer Khan may not have been - it is another matter that I dont think highly of him in sharing dressing room matters with the press - but others might have been. After all it is just that one bowler who was going to get us all the wickets, is he?

[Lord]

Actually Amla tried to accelerate in his own way' date=' but that apparently did not include shots hit in the air. No matter what, waiting for 50 runs might have meant that SA could not declare today. [/quote'] not really,he was playing the same way he played throughout his innings.infact Mishra bowled coupled of maidens to him IIRC.

And even if it were an Indian player it would not have been easy for him to get 50+ runs starting from sometime into the post Tea session.

Amla didnt even try.thats where i'm puzzled

[achilles]

Forgive me if I dont agree with you about the example subjects. However you and I agree in principle about honesty in sport as in life. I have seen both Tendulkar and Dravid stand their ground when they were out. Also Gilchrist - I simply lost all respect for him after that golf ball episode. Yes, I know individual opinions differ and yes MCC had no issues with it. But I happen to have issues with that move of Gilchrist. :)

I think that incident involving the golf balls was a DISGRACE to cricket and we all know what would've happened if any team from the Subcontinent had a player doing that. It was shameful and the MCC was really feeding the trolls there. Sachin & RD stand only when they're not sure. They are so gentlemanly that they smile back even when called swears that would make any other human go kill the guy saying it.

[Lord]

Lord - it is not about matters of strike rate. I have seen Dravid innings having far lower strike rates which have been more entertaining. Sachin was just not there in that innings. And his considered compromise of one of his favourite strokes - the cover drive - did not help. One the one hand I think this is one aspect that takes him above Lara - to put mind over matter and be ready to struggle like other rank mortals. But then, one cannot have the cake and eat it too. If you are not scoring runs at a decent rate then you must not be surprised the captain is not waiting up for you to get to a landmark. Zaheer Khan may not have been - it is another matter that I dont think highly of him in sharing dressing room matters with the press - but others might have been. After all it is just that one bowler who was going to get us all the wickets, is he?

i dont anybody would have complained if RD had declared with Sachin even at 170.but he was just 6 runs away from a 200.couple of overs would have done it,so why not give him the chance? Do u really think Smith would have declared if Amla had gotten to 290+

[achilles]

^ With Smith, you never know

[Gunner_Mania]

^ With Smith' date=' you never know[/quote'] I doubt it, especially from a team that always does a safety first approach.

[achilles]

I doubt it' date=' especially from a team that always does a safety first approach.[/quote'] Safety first often means that the team's position is more important than records

[Lord]

^ With Smith' date=' you never know[/quote'] i dont think he would have

[Gunner_Mania]

Safety first often means that the team's position is more important than records

Safety first for a South African captain also means being politically correct. He wouldn't have declared with Amla on 294. No way.

[Lord]

Safety first for a South African captain also means being politically correct. He wouldn't have declared with Amla on 294. No way.

n if at all he would have,he would have been rightfully criticised just like RD was.

[thevortex]

i dont anybody would have complained if RD had declared with Sachin even at 170.but he was just 6 runs away from a 200.couple of overs would have done it,so why not give him the chance? Do u really think Smith would have declared if Amla had gotten to 290+

I think Smith should have thought more about the time required for his bowlers rather than his batsman's individual score.

[thevortex]

I think that incident involving the golf balls was a DISGRACE to cricket and we all know what would've happened if any team from the Subcontinent had a player doing that. It was shameful and the MCC was really feeding the trolls there. Sachin & RD stand only when they're not sure. They are so gentlemanly that they smile back even when called swears that would make any other human go kill the guy saying it.

I am glad at least somebody agrees about that golf ball episode. I am tired of listening to people quoting MCC's clean chit to Gilchrist. :)

[Cricketics]

Smith didn't care about 300, he was more scared about Amla breaking his record of 277.. Forget 300 rite now.

[achilles]

I am glad at least somebody agrees about that golf ball episode. I am tired of listening to people quoting MCC's clean chit to Gilchrist. :)

We seem to agree on a lot of things :two_thumbs_up: And MCC is quite imperialistic, biased and hypocritical. Even they know it.

[azanian]

I don't think that Smith much about his 277 record against India. South Africans only place importance on records they have achieved against Australia and England, the old apartheid era rivals

[Guest Hiten.]

Mishra was bloody brilliant and unlucky to not get a wicket of kallis (the over before Bhajji picked him). He consistently asked questions and beat the outside edge numerous amount of times. His guile is flighting the ball and letting zip a big leg turner out, which will keep the keeper and first slip interested at all the times. Moreover, he uses his googly to good use and very wittingly slips in very rarely. Kallis did not look comfortable against AM and he was the reason why both the well settled pair could not manage to sneak in easy runs in what was a bloody pathetic strategy of field placing.

[Ram]

What record? They had already taken their own sweet time of 2 full days to make this score, do you expect them to bat for longer so that Amla gets a triple?