For tests : Raina or Kohli?

[The Outsider]

How many of you thought Sehwag would be a better Test player when he made his debut in ODIs? Atleast give these guys a chance to perform before writing them off.

Sehwag was a monster at First Class level before he got selected in Test matches. In fact, he remains the last good and judicious selection made for the test squad without paying too much attention to the ODI and T20 masalas. Laxman, Ganguly, Dravid, and Tendulkar selected on similar principles did not turn out to be too bad either.

[King Tendulkar]

Sehwag was a monster at First Class level before he got selected in Test matches. In fact' date=' he remains the last good and judicious selection made for the test squad without paying too much attention to the ODI and T20 masalas. Laxman, Ganguly, Dravid, and Tendulkar selected on similar principles did not turn out to be too bad either.[/quote'] Er Vijay and Badri just got selected based on FC performances and not odis and t20. So really the above statement is clearly wrong!

[Sooda]

We dont know if theyre 'good and judicious' yet. Generally too much attn not only to IPL and ODis but also U19 cricket. Guys like Raina and even Virat first came thorugh based pretty much entirely on their U19 careers and very little FC cricket in them Not to mention Pathan, RP Singh.. I dont think its any coincidence that they start to brightly only to fade away and have to be dropped/recalled later. They know nothing of their own game having played so little. That isnt so much the case with Virat or Raina now. Not sure how VK is against pace/short ball as I havent seen enough of him Id still want Kaif to play ideally.

[The Outsider]

Er Vijay and Badri just got selected based on FC performances and not odis and t20. So really the above statement is clearly wrong!

Yeah, I was thinking of the middle order when I wrote that and forgot to include Badrinath in it.

[youngindia]

there's no discussion to be had if you are unable to grasp that you need very good first class records to make it to the test team. .

you ,have been unable to grasp that has not been the case. it is a figment of your imagination and ignorance.

And what does the hell does "seasoning" mean anyway?

you are probably too limited to understand that human beings grow up stage by stage. are you so stupid to think that a 20 yr old has the maturity of a 30 yr old? basic commonsense man. players also build their game brick by brick.it does not happen overnight. seasoning is the process of having building your game gradually ansd maturing mentally gradually.

, you need to be in the team ahead of everyone who doesn't have those criteria matched.

it is stupid and ignorant to think that a less mature guy is deserving than the more mature guy. frankly speaking, you and other guys lack a clue to the word "evolution". Tht's the cause of your limited insight.

BTW, comparing the likes of Richards, Warne, Tendulkar, Dravid to these budding cricketers is plain ignorance

a load of nonsense. their examples were invoked to prove some points. read clearlry.

[youngindia]

In which case Kohli' date=' who has shown great maturity at the crease, should have got the nod.[/b'] ]

no one under 24 shows "great maturity " with 6 months worth of ODI experience. he is confusing the fact the kohli has shown good maturity only for his age group. that does not mean he is ready to take on steyn and co and "mature" across age groups.

[graphic23]

you ,have been unable to grasp that has not been the case. it is a figment of your imagination and ignorance. you are probably too limited to understand that human beings grow up stage by stage. are you so stupid to think that a 20 yr old has the maturity of a 30 yr old? basic commonsense man. players also build their game brick by brick.it does not happen overnight. seasoning is the process of having building your game gradually ansd maturing mentally gradually.

No sir, if you let the Dravids and Tendulkars to debut after they've been seasoned with some chili powder before letting them play when they deserve to, they wouldn't be the same players they are today. Furthermore, Kohli has infinitely better technique than Raina, inspite of some faults of his own. Kohli is a young guy but the willingness to correct himself, and the ability to fix his mistakes to better his game are already there, and he has been doing much better than he did when he debuted vs. SL in 2008. You can call me ignorant or whatever the hell you want, but my point stays. How the hell is someone "seasoned" if they've been mediocre throughout their "seasoning" time ? He doesn't have a great first class record to deserve selection, and no sir, not everyone who has a poor f/c record can turn out to be a Viv Richards, and whatever else nonsense you're claiming. There's a specific process to selection, and I believe Outsider laid that criteria out in the previous page. Kohli meets those better than Raina. I dont get this seasoning nonsense. In his 3 years as a F/C player, Kohli has a much better record than Raina. Raina is a very good ODI player, and a good finisher. He hast to change his game significantly before he can be considered as a potential test player. If you want to ignore all these, and sit on your seasoning and call others ignorant, you're welcome to. BTW, I love you call everyone who disagrees with your POV, someone with "limited insight." Hypocrisy is a b!tch, isn't it ?

[Sujan]

The kind of form kohli has shown recently, I would say Kohli deserves an opportunity

[shubham45]

The kind of form kohli has shown recently' date=' I would say Kohli deserves an opportunity[/quote'] i thnk pujara shud b given an oppurtunity

[Sujan]

i thnk pujara shud b given an oppurtunity

Agree with that too... speaking of giving chances, I would say Manish Pamdey deserves a place too.. But the thread is about, Raina or Kohli... :hmmm:

[ludhianvi]

I like Kohli. Go Kohli Go ! :cheer:

[The Outsider]

An old thread with some of the discussions related to questions being posed by India's selection. On evidence, it is pretty safe to say that no number of 'seasonings' as one poster, youngindia, was arguing and deriding other people's understanding of cricket can prepare an Indian batsman for test cricket in alien conditions. The selection criteria should follow a logical chain of thought where First Class matches, performance on A tours, and in high profile First Class matches need to be given priority over developing 'seasonings' in ODIs and IPL. Besides that of course there are other intangible criterion like a batsman's willingness to learn and improve, his attitude, ability to change his game on the condition of the pitch, and just the basic technique. Test cricket is a cruel place and many people have been woefully exposed. Raina, still might come back after working on his shortcomings, like he did in ODIs, but he is not going to sort these problems out by being brutally exposed in Test matches, and nor will any number of ODIs and T20s going to help him. As much as one can deride the Indian domestic structure, that is the only place for the likes of Yuvraj and Raina to prove themselves to be capable test batsmen. That India is handing out debuts to batsmen averaging 40 in the circuit when equally or more capable batsmen exist averaging 55+ is a huge selection issue. Kohli, Pujara, Rahane, Rohit should all be given a chance to convert their superb First Class record to Tests. Seasonings!

[dhillon28]

neither next players in order of priority should be: Pujara Vijay Rohit Rahane Mukund

[Chandan]

Will all those forummers who were supperting Raina vehemently and were certain that Raina would be a great success at test level, appear in this thread and reply to some of their own points?

[gaurav92]

:giggle: As expected, Rain fails to deliver on Livelier tracks.He looks very vulnerable, in fact it looks as though he is afraid of the short ball, he is cemented on the back foot everytime, which doesn't enable him to come forward and drive a half volley, since these are fast paced tracks.He just looks clueless about his footwork at the moment.He will have to work really hard in the nets to tackle the short stuff now, because everyone will just target his weakness even in ODIs.

[achilles]

Will all those forummers who were supperting Raina vehemently and were certain that Raina would be a great success at test level' date=' appear in this thread and reply to some of their own points?[/quote'] No. They are too busy hanging out in their azz, waiting for the next randumb 100 to come up on conditions where the most vicious bouncer reaches the waist. And c'mon, Raina deserves his chance because... :hmmm: because... :hmmmm2: because... :hmmmm:

[graphic23]

No. They are too busy hanging out in their azz, waiting for the next randumb 100 to come up on conditions where the most vicious bouncer reaches the waist. And c'mon, Raina deserves his chance because... :hmmm: because... :hmmmm2: because... :hmmmm:

Raina is a better choice than Kohli. Kohli is very young and still has a lot of things to learn before being introduced to the longest format of the international game.

[spectre]

and there are forummers who are bookmarking such threads to bump it whenever X player fails. Where were these forummers when he made the debut hundred and played an critical 86 with Sachin when India was in a precarious position. This guy is just 8 matches old and already being put down at the blink of an eye, as though all the other Indian batting greats have excellent records in SA. What happened in first innings, how many blasted the SA attack in which Raina only failed to score. Go and revisit their batting records first before blasting Raina. The same forummers wont spare Kohli or Pujara once they fail in 2-3 matches on the trot If selectors started thinking like some bumping forummers here, India will become like Pakistan, loosing all the good talent and going back to retired players

Will all those forummers who were supperting Raina vehemently and were certain that Raina would be a great success at test level' date=' appear in this thread and reply to some of their own points?[/quote']

[The Outsider]

^ It is not that Raina is failing. Many batsmen fail at the start of their careers. It is the manner in which he is failing. Even Dravid did not set the world on fire on his first tour to South Africa or Australia - they are tough places to go and score runs. But he would not look inept as Raina is doing at the moment. Which brings me to the question that if the logic of picking Raina over someone like Kohli or Pujara was his experience in ODIs and IPL would mean not looking inept, then that certainly did not work out well.

[Guest BossBhai]

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