suraj Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 both parties are idiotic to great extent Hussain deciding to leave his country after 94 yrs is stupidity- whats the worse that could have happened; life sentence for a 94-yr old?? Even bigger idiocity is that in a country like India court cases against a 90 yr old or assasination of an old man preaching non-violence We are million times better than Pakistan but things like these bring us down to million -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Nope not really. Because nobody really was aware of MF's deeds until they were published in the 90s. This is like someone making these paintings and circulating it amongst a like minded group of the sort that people like Shwetabh represent and pretend that the Hindu community at large didn't object to it. And if members of this forum is any indicator we produce such people by the millions. The latest example lays right in-front of your eyes in the form of the locked thread on "What will we do with Kashmir" . I love chasing such fake secularists just to understand their mindset because I cannot for the life of me understand the self destructive philosophies these guys try to sell. I'am sure one of these days I will. BossBhai, do you support the protests against the Danish cartoonist or Taslima Nasrin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Because nobody really was aware of MF's deeds until they were published in the 90s. If bhagwaa brigade had taken out the time to visit some public art galleries and read literature on art, they would have become aware of them much earlier. Ignorance on part of VHP and Bajrang Dal loonies does not mean you punish someone for 'hurting sentiments' 20 years later. In fact, I remember seeing these paintings in the 80s - Illustrated Weakly of India had done an article on MF Hussain. The fault lies with the ignorant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As I said earlier.. everything was fine till the late 1980s when Kangress banned Salman Rushdies book..That gave the que to Hindu Right wing groups to check it out if they have the same rights or not..Obviously they didn't had the same rights.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 As I said earlier.. everything was fine till the late 1980s when Kangress banned Salman Rushdies book..That gave the que to Hindu Right wing groups to check it out if they have the same rights or not..Obviously they didn't had the same rights.. You still can't see the difference? Protests against Rushdie's book happened when it came out. The book was banned when it came out (I don't think it should have been banned). In the case of Hussain, protests happened 20 years after the paintings were made, had little to do with 'hurt sentiments' and mostly to do with gaining political mileage in the volatile atmosphere of the 90s. Even today, not everyone protesting against Hussain's paintings is doing so because it hurts their sentiments, there is a significant number who do it only because of perceived double standards. Instead of trying to correct the wrong of Rushdie's book being banned the focus has shifted to polarize the society further by committing another wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Ganesh' date=' if you promise to not run away from the discussion when very uncomfortable facts begin to surface I will most definitely answer any and all of your questions in a straight forward manner without beating around the bush. Otherwise there is no point in such discussions. If you are afraid of expressing your thoughts publicly for whatever reasons you can PM me. I did PM you after the Kashmir thread got locked. And as I had predicted in that thread silence is what came back in reply. Decide and let me know.[/quote'] I dont run away from discussions. I had asked for 2 very simple points in the Kashmir thread. the whole crux of my arguments was against guilt by association (or inaction). innocent people must not be condemned or prejudiced against, under any circumstances, regardless or their ideology or religion. Lets continue that on PM. Again coming back to this thread. Do you support the religious persecution that Rushdie, Taslima Nasreen and the Danish cartoonist had to face? Do you support the religious persecution that Hussain had to face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 You still can't see the difference? Protests against Rushdie's book happened when it came out. The book was banned when it came out (I don't think it should have been banned). In the case of Hussain, protests happened 20 years after the paintings were made, had little to do with 'hurt sentiments' and mostly to do with gaining political mileage in the volatile atmosphere of the 90s. Even today, not everyone protesting against Hussain's paintings is doing so because it hurts their sentiments, there is a significant number who do it only because of perceived double standards. Instead of trying to correct the wrong of Rushdie's book being banned the focus has shifted to polarize the society further by committing another wrong. It's bit complicated.. The Indian society was by and large very much homgenious till 1980 (early 80s). The right wing groups started raising ante in the latter part of 80s.. They were on the look out of agendas.. Since Hussain's was painting/artwork, it was by and large out of reach of majority of Indians. The higher class who had access to Hussain's paintings were bothered about the 'finer details' of some of his paintings.. I think during the *** end of 1980s a book published these controversial photos which reached wider readership and gave ammunition to Hindu right wing groups. I agree it was wrong and might be too late to protest. However it started with some protests and some cases being filed in the courts which slowly snowballed because of the ambtions of the right wing groups and Govt. sitting on the issue and not doing anything. Not sure what was Hussain's conduct during these times and what actions he took to assuge the feelings of Hindus (let's say offfended Hindus..maybe in minority). You cannot blame everything on the right wing looneys..It takes two for a tango.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 It's bit complicated.. The Indian society was by and large very much homgenious till 1980 (early 80s). The right wing groups started raising ante in the latter part of 80s.. They were on the look out of agendas.. Since Hussain's was painting/artwork, it was by and large out of reach of majority of Indians. The higher class who had access to Hussain's paintings were bothered about the 'finer details' of some of his paintings.. I think during the *** end of 1980s a book published these controversial photos which reached wider readership and gave ammunition to Hindu right wing groups. I agree it was wrong and might be too late to protest. However it started with some protests and some cases being filed in the courts which slowly snowballed because of the ambtions of the right wing groups and Govt. sitting on the issue and not doing anything. Not sure what was Hussain's conduct during these times and what actions he took to assuge the feelings of Hindus (let's say offfended Hindus..maybe in minority). You cannot blame everything on the right wing looneys..It takes two for a tango.. What are the steps that you wanted the government to take? Imprisonment? An apology (which he gave?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Nope not really. Because nobody really was aware of MF's deeds until they were published in the 90s. This is like someone making these paintings and circulating it amongst a like minded group of the sort that people like Shwetabh represent and pretend that the Hindu community at large didn't object to it. And if members of this forum is any indicator we produce such people by the millions. The latest example lays right in-front of your eyes in the form of the locked thread on "What will we do with Kashmir" . I love chasing such fake secularists just to understand their mindset because I cannot for the life of me understand the self destructive philosophies these guys try to sell. I'am sure one of these days I will. Ok, fair enough - people were not aware of these paintings till the 90s so they didn't protest. What about the sculptures/paintings in various temples etc and in some caves (I have visited Khajuraho and those were way beyond anything Hussain ever painted IMO) - they have been there for all to see for hundreds of years but nobody has any problems. Why??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 What are the steps that you wanted the government to take? Imprisonment? An apology (which he gave?) When did he gave the apology? Let me know the year. Yaar, there's no point discussing with you. No offence to you but you have to do a lot's of reaserch. Gannu, mere bahi..Mujhe maaf karo. I'm not going to debate further with you on this topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 You still can't see the difference? Protests against Rushdie's book happened when it came out. The book was banned when it came out (I don't think it should have been banned). In the case of Hussain, protests happened 20 years after the paintings were made, had little to do with 'hurt sentiments' and mostly to do with gaining political mileage in the volatile atmosphere of the 90s. Even today, not everyone protesting against Hussain's paintings is doing so because it hurts their sentiments, there is a significant number who do it only because of perceived double standards. Instead of trying to correct the wrong of Rushdie's book being banned the focus has shifted to polarize the society further by committing another wrong. In this case I agree that the "double standards" are only perceived. But parties in power in India have used that approach to win elections to set one community against the other prety much from the beginning. Since the 80s it has gotten significantly worse, once the BJP started gaining strength and started using hindutva as a plank congress went to the polar opposite end to garener the votes of the other minorities. Both the parties have their hands drenched in blood. Therefore I don't agree that the double standards are only perceived on all occassions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganeshran Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 These are the some of the sculptures in Khajuraho. I ask again, have we become so intolerant that we have to take revenge on a 90 year old artist to 'save' and 'defend our faith'? Are the nutters who attacked Hussain, ashamed of our heritage? Of our ancestors who were progressive enough to view the human body as an art form and recognized sex as a vital bodily function and not something to be swept under the carpet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Gunner Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Nope not really. Because nobody really was aware of MF's deeds until they were published in the 90s. This is like someone making these paintings and circulating it amongst a like minded group of the sort that people like Shwetabh represent and pretend that the Hindu community at large didn't object to it. And if members of this forum is any indicator we produce such people by the millions. I agreed with his point on retrospective morality which is absolutely valid in this case. If we continued on that track we will one day end up destroying kajuraho since some idiot like Thackeray will say it is against "Indian culture". As far as hussain's paintings are concerned what about it is offensive to you? Read the Arthashastra, Chanakya mandates punishment for those who engage in sexual acts with images of female goddesses, what does that tell you? The concept of displaying hindu goddesses in a sexual manner or fantasizing sex with them has existed as a part of India since ancient times. I simply don't agree that Hussain came along and did something so blasphemous that no one has done before. On another note, Hussain's art sucks, he is an average painter at best who should have faded into obscurity if not for all this bruhaha. I have spent a lot of time visiting art galleries around Europe and I can tell you that hussain's works are uninspiring to say the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 It's bit complicated.. The Indian society was by and large very much homgenious till 1980 (early 80s). The right wing groups started raising ante in the latter part of 80s.. They were on the look out of agendas.. Since Hussain's was painting/artwork, it was by and large out of reach of majority of Indians. The higher class who had access to Hussain's paintings were bothered about the 'finer details' of some of his paintings.. I think during the *** end of 1980s a book published these controversial photos which reached wider readership and gave ammunition to Hindu right wing groups. I agree it was wrong and might be too late to protest. However it started with some protests and some cases being filed in the courts which slowly snowballed because of the ambtions of the right wing groups and Govt. sitting on the issue and not doing anything. Not sure what was Hussain's conduct during these times and what actions he took to assuge the feelings of Hindus (let's say offfended Hindus..maybe in minority). You cannot blame everything on the right wing looneys..It takes two for a tango.. I am not blaming everything on right wing loonies - there are numerous occasions when Congress and Muslim fundoos have been wrong as well, none more so than the Shah Bano case or when Congress decided to do open the locks at the Ayodhya temple. But since we are discussing the MF Hussain issue, the vast majority of the blame lies with the right wing loonies. And I really have problems entertaining this tit for tat measure to correct wrongs. If banning of Rushdie's book was wrong then protest and fight for that, not rake up another emotional issue to cause further fissures in the society. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
asterix Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 I think the theory of a "Muslim painter/artist' taking the micky out of the Hindus, painting Hindu godesses nude, mother and son (Parwati & Ganesha) nude and together (incest??), Godess Durga having sex with lion etc. acted as catalyst.. The sculptures in the temples dipict various sexual scenes (even animals are involved) however they don't suggest incest and also not suggest Godesses having sex with animals (as far as I remember of what I saw during my trip to Khajuraho).. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 In this case I agree that the "double standards" are only perceived. But parties in power in India have used that approach to win elections to set one community against the other prety much from the beginning. Since the 80s it has gotten significantly worse' date=' once the BJP started gaining strength and started using hindutva as a plank congress went to the polar opposite end to garener the votes of the other minorities. Both the parties have their hands drenched in blood. Therefore I don't agree that the double standards are only perceived on all occassions.[/quote'] Perceptions can be right or wrong - in this case they are wrong, in others they have been correct as well. I am not arguing the merit of perceptions, but the philosophy behind using them to create further divisions in the society rather than correcting the wrongs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir john Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 These are the some of the sculptures in Khajuraho. I ask again, have we become so intolerant that we have to take revenge on a 90 year old artist to 'save' and 'defend our faith'? Are the nutters who attacked Hussain, ashamed of our heritage? Of our ancestors who were progressive enough to view the human body as an art form and recognized sex as a vital bodily function and not something to be swept under the carpet? there are many other places too in india where you can see this type of sculptures. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogini http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhedaghat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mariyam Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 Ok' date=' fair enough - people were not aware of these paintings till the 90s so they didn't protest. What about the sculptures/paintings in various temples etc and in some caves ([b']I have visited the Ajanta-Ellora caves and those were way beyond anything Hussain ever painted IMO) - they have been there for all to see for hundreds of years but nobody has any problems. Why??? S=G, I've visited Ajanta and Ellora too. I thought it was mainly Buddhist art and sculpture. I could be wrong though. Not the stuff you are saying it is. I think you meant Khajuraho? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Outsider Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 On another note, Hussain's art sucks, he is an average painter at best who should have faded into obscurity if not for all this bruhaha. I have spent a lot of time visiting art galleries around Europe and I can tell you that hussain's works are uninspiring to say the very least. That's incorrect. You are entitled to your opinion of Hussain's paintings, but he was an internationally recognized name much before any of these controversies. He was awarded Padma Shri and Vibhushan along with other international awards long before any of these controversies, in fact even before he experimented with this genre of nude Gods and Goddesses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sachin=GOD Posted June 10, 2011 Share Posted June 10, 2011 S=G, I've visited Ajanta and Ellora too. I thought it was mainly Buddhist art and sculpture. I could be wrong though. Not the stuff you are saying it is. I think you meant Khajuraho? maybe, I've visited both Khajuraho and Ajanta-Ellora. Got confused between the two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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